Annual Inspection and Maintenance for Owners

[KISS_MY_TCAS]

I maintain a Turbo Arrow on the side, no way in hell is it 500 bucks or a day for an annual, but if you know someone that can do it in a day for 500 I am all ears, it will ease my burden. You get what you pay for, bottom line.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I maintain a Turbo Arrow on the side, no way in hell is it 500 bucks or a day for an annual, but if you know someone that can do it in a day for 500 I am all ears, it will ease my burden. You get what you pay for, bottom line.

+ 1

Pay now or pay later ( @ approximately $1500 per year of $ 500 annuals )

[photofly]

How many hours should a shop budget for inspecting a light piston single?

[Rudder Bug]

Here photofly;

They have flat rates for typical aircraft.

http://www.aeromech-inc.com/inspectiontimes.htm

*Please Note: The following times and prices are for the inspection (labor) only. Any repairs or replacements will incur additional charges for both labor and parts.

My AME's flat rate is 800$ plus what's stated above and I can (rather say MUST) do it with him. Every time, it't a 2k+ bite out of my wallet and I am happy with it. He always begs me a test ride after the annual. I give him the left seat. He drops in for a beer when he's around and I take him out for lunch. I keep sending him customers.

RB

[azimuthaviation]

$75 an hour? They must charge hangarage on top of that.

[KISS_MY_TCAS]

System Message, I hope you don't actually own OR maintain an aircraft. I just had a newly purchased light single dropped on my lap with full logs. Owner never did a pre- buy, and has never heard of 625 appendix c obviously. I refused the annual, that is my right. Or l could inspect it and snag the hell out of it, which is also my right, but I don't need the headache. Someone else can have it, but I would LOVE to lay my eyes on any aircraft you are involved in just for shits and giggles.

Photofly, in my time as an AME the cheapest owners and/or operators are involved in farming, skydiving, and taking aerial photos, there is a reason AMOs ask what the aircraft is used for, "i'm a farmer, jumper dumper, or I take pictures" ALWAYS throw red flags because you know ahead of time, no matter what happens you also have to budget time for the owner to bitch about the bill, it is really not a secret to anyone but the guy that brought the plane in for maintenance. I hope your username is no indication of your profession. You are seeking information which I commend you for, but by regulation any person who notices an airworthiness defect on an aircraft is REQUIRED to enter it in the log, and ultimately the responsibility of maintaining the aircraft lies solely on the OWNER. It is all in the CARs, I am on an itouch so i cannot provide reference but it is there. The AME cannot "ground" the aircraft per se, but he sure as hell can deem it unairworthy. At that point the onus is on the owner to have it maintained within the applicable standards of airworthiness, which includes 625 app B and C, ADs, and SBs. The airworthiness of the aircraft is the owners responsibility as outlined in the CARs, the airworthiness of the work performed is the responsibility of the AME, as is noting any unadressed airworthiness defects in the journey log for the owner to deal with. AMEs are not the devil's advocate trying to empty your bank account, they are trying to avoid the aircraft they touch making front page news and having to read your obituary. There is no dollar amount that can be put to that, but owners still insist we are staring at our wallets. I have never met an AME that thinks otherwise, food for thought. Question your AME all you want until he refuses.

[photofly]

You are seeking information which I commend you for

My goal is to be exactly that owner who knows 100% what his responsibilities are, keeps his aircraft maintained to a very high standard, knows exactly what maintenance tasks are becoming due, knows how much they are likely to cost and has a good professional relationship with his AME(s), being respectful of their professional qualifications and also mindful to obtain value for money when engaging their services, and knowing what to expect from them.

That would apply regardless of whether I am a farmer, fly skydivers, or take aerial photographs, or all three at once. Owners are individuals too, you know, just like AMEs.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Photofly, in my time as an AME the cheapest owners and/or operators are involved in farming, skydiving, and taking aerial photos.

You forgot banner tow operators

[iflyforpie]

Glider tow planes. Bag run operators.

Lawyers, doctors, and dentists are (usually) the best. My pharmacist never looks at the bill for maintaining his two aircraft, and pays me $100/hr plus fuel to take them out for a burn every year. I could easily gouge people like that, but I don't.


Like I said before, it ain't worth it to deal with some owners and some have been run out of so many shops that they have to go to another province to get work done on their aircraft.

[niss]

Well folks, UBC goes in for annual tomorrow so I'll let you all know how she went.

[Rudder Bug]

Well folks, UBC goes in for annual tomorrow so I'll let you all know how she went.

I'm counting on that Niss and why don't you fly over in CYFJ and show me your plane?

RB

[niss]

I'll try to later on this summer, we'll see how much gas I can afford after the annual.

[iflyforpie]

Remember, gas is maintenance.

[Rudder Bug]

I'll try to later on this summer, we'll see how much gas I can afford after the annual.

Oh shit, that's true but you should be alright hitchhiking, you still look pretty sexy. We'll be waiting for ya.

Shalom

RB

[System Message]

The requirement for an annual inspection on private non commercial use aircraft is the root cause for so many aircraft being technically airworthy yet derelict in condition. The general pattern goes like this.
Aircraft owner does no maintenance for a year because he has someone who does it for him.
He calls the local airplane maintenance shop and books an inspection and delivers it on the agreed on day.
He calls a week later to find out how it went, the shop was busy and has not looked at it yet.
It is finally looked at. The mechanic finds a few small issues and orders parts that would have been on hand if he had been told about it ahead of time. One more expensive part that should be changed while everything is apart. The owner is not available to give instructions. It sits for ten more days.
The light bulbs, filters, tires and dope arrive. Three days are spent at $85.00 doing elementary maintenance and the magnetos are timed.
The owner is told the control surface hinges are worn. He mutters something about only flying thirty hours since they were last changed. The weather washed the oil off and they moved in the wind for a year. He does not oil them because a professional does the maintenance.
All told he spent $2500.00 and had an experienced knowledgable engineer doing basic chores that any owner should do.
That is a professional expensive annual.
Part 2 will be $500

[System Message]

Our second owner has a TV set.
It is in his hangar and only watches it when with the airplane. Sunday afternoon is usually spent working on the plane.
It is flown enough that it gets about four oil changes a year. When he changes the oil he checks the plane over to the standards in CAR 625 because he likes working on planes. Any time in the year a task comes up that needs an aircraft maintenance engineer he hires one, annual time or not. When he goes to hire an inspector to do the annual inspection he brings his notes that the engineer knows what to bring. This plane has the elementary work completed and the owner knew about any issues half a year before the inspection.
The first plane is maintained by a pro, he does it for money.
The second plane is maintained by a amateur, he does it for love.
Call me an amateur any day.

[KISS_MY_TCAS]

System Message, I see your point and I digress. You are correct in that an extremely high percentage of owners do not look after thier investment, and I will definitley suggest some elementary pointers to the owner of the aircraft I look after, to be honest it never crossed my mind. But the bread and butter of the aircraft I look after on inspection is the retractable gear and the engine, the airframe by comparasin is quite simple, your aircraft may be quite different. At the same time, I trust you seek the guidance of an AME to understand elementary tasks, as I have seen them go bad in the past with something that seemed simple while something was overlooked. Out of curiosity do you log what you do and when you do it to provide to your inspecting AME, or find solice in the fact that keeping an eye on things and keeping it all lubricated will reduce annual findings?

[azimuthaviation]

The owner is told the control surface hinges are worn. He mutters something about only flying thirty hours since they were last changed. a

Try explaining to customer why you had to align his transponder to get it within spec when "tower didnt say anything was wrong". Well "tower" isnt measuring your minimum trigger level, your pulse spacing and width or your transmit frequency, which is why they say you have to send it to us every two years. Ive never, out of the hundreds Ive done, had a customer drop off an aircraft for a biannual recert without saying "the altimeter is pretty accurate, I dont think it needs much". I dont know why an altimeter was ever invented, every private pilot Ive met can look out the window and know their altitude above ground +or- 30 feet from any altitiude.

And until the day they can see with their own eyes that their comm is transmitting outside the .003% allowable fluctuation in frequency stability, they wont pay to rectify it, after all "it sounds fine to everyone I talk to". The way so many owners explain it to me, people stop to compliment them on how well their radios sound.

Heres an abridged conversation with a customer:

Customer "my ASI is reading low, when Im at cruise power my airspeed is ten knots lower than it should be"
Me "are you sure its the ASI? do they conflict with the enroute times?"
Customer "blah blah blah ASI"
Me "Your ASI was tested, its within one knot throughout the whole range"
Customer "so why am I being billed for testing it if its fine!!!???"

[System Message]

azimuthaviation, were you that guy that had a $4000.00 stereo in a rusty car you paid two hundred bucks for?

[azimuthaviation]

azimuthaviation, were you that guy that had a $4000.00 stereo in a rusty car you paid two hundred bucks for?

LOL, actually youre not that far off. But it still had to pass the insurance inspection before I was allowed to put in on the road.

[niss]

Annual is complete! So let's talk about it shall we?

This year we got off relatively easy. I opened all the inspection holes and took off all the fairings, covers, and seats the evening before which really saved time in the shop.

I was shown how to properly check and top electrolite, clean & gap plugs, and compression check, so next year I can do these before the annual and they don't have to be done by the shop.

The AD I was worrying about (Incorrect assembly of control wheel http://wwwapps3.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ ... -15-10.htm) was no issue as she all ready had inspection holes and everything was peachy.

So we got her done in 15 hours and the annual only came out to $1000 + HST. No biggy when splitting it two ways.

That was the good news. The bad news is that we found ferrous material in the pressure screen. The engine is making metal.

When I saw this my heart sunk. Most probable cause for the Lyc O-320-E2D is the cam and tappets. So we are looking probably at least a bottom end overhaul with new cam and tappets. I got an estimate for around $6500.00 to re&re the engine and do the o/h.

Now we are lucky, there was only a small quantity of metal in the top screen and it is only fine filings, we checked the bottom screen and there were no contaminates so it looks like we caught it early. I sent out for an emergency oil analysis and should find out what kind of metal were making by Tuesday.

So there's the bad news. Now I wasn't that wise and I don't have a reserve fund, but I budgeted $1500 for my half of the annual so I do have $1k available and can borrow the rest.

My partner is inclined to do a complete zero time overhaul rather than just the bottom end. Now this is where partnership dynamic and compatibility really comes into play. I barely can afford a new bottom end. He is considerably better off than I am.

So this could have gone a few ways. He could have chose to not 'throw good money after bad' with an old airplane and left us with nothing, or just choose to walk. He could just say full o/h or nothing, etc. But instead he is going to talk to his wife and it looks like he is willing to cover the cost, and work out something where it gets taken out of my share when we sell or crash.

This is key to co-owning an airplane. The partnership is everything. I could not ask for a better partner. He has been amazing. And now that we are at a point that would be extremely trying on a partnership it looks like things will pan out.

Best of luck to you other owners out there!

PS later on I will post more WRT what was done & costs.

Cheers!

[Rudder Bug]

Thanks for sharing Niss, I will do the same with my next annual, due in March. I am sorry about your engine issue though, I hope you find a practical solution.

This thread is priceless!

RB

[burhead1]

Or you could pay him back with interest, that way you are both on a even playing field. The price of the annual sounds great, sounds like you were able to save a considerable amount of coin by helping with the annual. Sorry to hear about your engine problems, but in the long run you may be better with a "0" time engine.

[azimuthaviation]

Since youre paying for re&re which adds no appreciation to the a/c, you would get more value out of that by getting more work done while its out. Plus if its not completely overhauled wouldnt it still be on condition? An engine in that position isnt worth much so why invest in it and why install it? Its got over 2000 hours so you got your value out of it. Just my opine, of course if the moneys not there its a mute point.

[crazy_aviator]

One option is to pull 2 cylinders and take a good look at the cam and tappets. Both can be reground and reused if not too far gone and they may still be in good enough condition for a couple hundred hours more , maybe not . one option to keep costs down is to farm out the work, strip the engine yourself, send the complete lower end to an engine shop, buy new cyls, have the accessories looked at and decide new or overhauled, sell the used ones and have an AME install the new cyls and accessories on the overhauled lower end and complete the testing to conform to overhaul standards. AME s on the average are gullible, too easy going overly independent, and are willing to sell their own jobs down the toilet. Ive been there-done that lol!!!

Remember to keep yourself in the drivers seat !!!