You see, I had not understood your point as you meant it and no, I really meant my 2x4 story as an analogy set to demonstrate that the argument was not valid.Doc wrote:I think my point is: If you cant afford to train your crews, then you CANT afford the aformentioned King Airs? And if you cant keep your crews, you're doing something wrong. As for sarcasm, I think you used the falling 2X4's as an example, not I.
I hear you....I just think you're full of crap!
Time and experience???
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore
I'm looking for a job! CPL Multi-IFR Class 1 224 TT ... I know, I know 
Looks to me everybody is right!!!! on one hand companies wnt you to pay for a PPC because they are worry to invest money on the wrong person, in the other hand, if companies traing and teat people right they are going to have loyal pilots....
Everyone has his opinion but what i think we all agree are the pay!!! I personally would not mind to invest 20K in a PPC if i can make a good salary once hired.
By the way, i am planning to pay a PPC on a Train, CN pays in AVERAGE 75-85K per year!!!!
Ciao
Everyone has his opinion but what i think we all agree are the pay!!! I personally would not mind to invest 20K in a PPC if i can make a good salary once hired.
By the way, i am planning to pay a PPC on a Train, CN pays in AVERAGE 75-85K per year!!!!
Ciao
It's better to break ground and head into the wind than to break wind and head into the ground
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Kelly Harmsworth
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If you can't be qualified for the job then employers CAN'T afford to hire youDoc wrote:I think my point is: If you cant afford to train your crews, then you CANT afford the aformentioned King Airs? And if you cant keep your crews, you're doing something wrong. As for sarcasm, I think you used the falling 2X4's as an example, not I.
I hear you....I just think you're full of crap!
In the business world, the rearview mirror is always clearer than the windshield...W. Buffett
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that a PCC is company transferable. I know of more than one company that fires guys with current PCC's into flying with no additional flight training. I think all that needs to be done is the company exams and you're okay for line flying.short bus wrote:Why doesn't TC make PPC's non-transferable? That would eliminate the problem right there. PCC's are not company transferable, why should PPC's be?
Workin' the Ramp
This is in response to the earlier post of why companies take on low-timers to work the ramp for crappy wages and work them to death.... it's cuz they can.
I worked at one place in the NWT a couple of years back, and they actually went out and hired a non-pilot local guy to work the ramp mid-season. In order to actually get someone to do the work, they had to pay him about 3 times what a pilot rampie would make, and what we got was totally brain-dead. The guy was a total disaster. He didn't know the first thing about weight and balance (nor did he even care), and he backed the truck up over a pair of DHC-3 landing gear legs inside the hangar. Needless to say, he had his pink slip in his hand that afternoon.
I can see it from a company point of view. If you could get people to work for peanuts for 18hrs a day, busting their balls for you.... it's much cheaper than buying slaves. In addition, most pilots I have worked with have an interest in learning things and are generally NOT brain-dead. I'm sure that if the manager of a Wall Mart could get top-notch intelligent employees to work for less than minimum wage, work well beyond what the labour board considers safe, and will put up with dangerous working conditions....he'd be an idiot not to hire them. The reason why he can't get employees who would be willing to do this is because no one in their right mind would be insane enough to actually do this...... wait a minute.... this happens all the time in aviation.
To be fair, the company I flew for in the NWT was actually a good one that expected a lot from us, but also paid us ok. I was taken in as a direct-entry pilot, however lower time guys were hired to work the dock on the promise that next season they would get to drive the 185. They didn't keep the proverbial "carrot on the stick" out forever as many operators up north do, they did live up to their promise of putting a rampie in an airplane the next season.
I worked at one place in the NWT a couple of years back, and they actually went out and hired a non-pilot local guy to work the ramp mid-season. In order to actually get someone to do the work, they had to pay him about 3 times what a pilot rampie would make, and what we got was totally brain-dead. The guy was a total disaster. He didn't know the first thing about weight and balance (nor did he even care), and he backed the truck up over a pair of DHC-3 landing gear legs inside the hangar. Needless to say, he had his pink slip in his hand that afternoon.
I can see it from a company point of view. If you could get people to work for peanuts for 18hrs a day, busting their balls for you.... it's much cheaper than buying slaves. In addition, most pilots I have worked with have an interest in learning things and are generally NOT brain-dead. I'm sure that if the manager of a Wall Mart could get top-notch intelligent employees to work for less than minimum wage, work well beyond what the labour board considers safe, and will put up with dangerous working conditions....he'd be an idiot not to hire them. The reason why he can't get employees who would be willing to do this is because no one in their right mind would be insane enough to actually do this...... wait a minute.... this happens all the time in aviation.
To be fair, the company I flew for in the NWT was actually a good one that expected a lot from us, but also paid us ok. I was taken in as a direct-entry pilot, however lower time guys were hired to work the dock on the promise that next season they would get to drive the 185. They didn't keep the proverbial "carrot on the stick" out forever as many operators up north do, they did live up to their promise of putting a rampie in an airplane the next season.
What about those that are not young?
Why in Europe pilot get experience AND paid well at the same time?
Do you have an article for that too?
If you read the aviation safety letter, you can read plenty about company cutting costs and running unsafe operations.
In this forum you can also read about companies asking you to fly unsafe airplane or VFR in IMC... See the big picture niss, i know what your article say, i am in my 30s and i have a job of responsability (no aviation unfortunately) and i have kids (and grownups too) asking 100K per yeaqr after 6 month training, if you read carefully the posts you will see that this is not the case...
CIAO
Why in Europe pilot get experience AND paid well at the same time?
Do you have an article for that too?
If you read the aviation safety letter, you can read plenty about company cutting costs and running unsafe operations.
In this forum you can also read about companies asking you to fly unsafe airplane or VFR in IMC... See the big picture niss, i know what your article say, i am in my 30s and i have a job of responsability (no aviation unfortunately) and i have kids (and grownups too) asking 100K per yeaqr after 6 month training, if you read carefully the posts you will see that this is not the case...
CIAO
It's better to break ground and head into the wind than to break wind and head into the ground
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niss
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I have read every post in this thread and for the most part I agree with your stance. I am caught in a situation with my employer where I am simply going no where. I have been cut one of my jobs that allowed me to work from home and make decent money, and now I have been loaded up with hours. Right now I work 6 days a week 44 hrs, and every 2 weeks its 7 days a week @ 52 hrs. I get no over time, vacation pay, stat holiday, etc. but i do get my 7.5/hr cash. I have been here a year, not recieved a single raise and the new person they brought in (As redundant as it is) makes the same as me.
That said. If I had to work on a ramp for a year to prove that I am hard working and motivated, I would.....But I wouldnt stick around after that If all i got the whole year was empty promises of a flying job.
If you want me to prove my self I will, I will promise to work hard and I will keep my promise. But If you promise something I expect you to keep it too. Its a matter of mutual respect.
Niss
That said. If I had to work on a ramp for a year to prove that I am hard working and motivated, I would.....But I wouldnt stick around after that If all i got the whole year was empty promises of a flying job.
If you want me to prove my self I will, I will promise to work hard and I will keep my promise. But If you promise something I expect you to keep it too. Its a matter of mutual respect.
My whole life there was nothing I have ever wanted to do but fly. I hope that my $40 000+ Investment/Education is worth it."Maybe we WERE spoiled by your generation. But I think the word 'entitled' isn't necessarily the word," he said. "Do we think we're deserving if we're going to go out there and bust our ass for you? Yes."
Niss
