Mediator resigns from talks between Air Canada, pilots

[Rockie]

That missive has indeed been around for a long time. Of course Air Canada pilots do not as a group feel as militant as the author does (if he himself isn't fictitious), but it is an indication that we are getting pretty frustrated. Before slinging arrows everybody here should remember that the industry in Canada is swirling down the toilet in a race to the bottom, something everybody agrees on. Working conditions at the nation's flag carrier are supposed to raise the rest of the industry up, but if the corporation and government have their way the foundation will be forever destroyed. No pension anywhere, continually eroding pay and benefits, and if you don't like it they will simply give your job to somebody else willing to do it cheaper because there will be no scope protection.

Think this doesn't effect you?

[CanadianEh]

Although some parts of the post are dramatic, I don't find it over the top. He/she is simply explaining that as a professional pilot he used to go out of his/her way to ensure that things ran more efficiently. Now, since the pilots are being deemed as part of the problem and not part of the solution he/she will stop caring.

Shame on some of you for defending management for continuing to erode our profession.

In the words of Paul Strachan "The C-Suite changes, but at the end of the day we are the ones left here with a stake in this company"

[TheStig]

+1 Rockie well put.

[haironfire]

I'll never understand the eagerness of posters here to see other pilots out of a job.

I reiterate my statement that I do not want to see any AC pilots lose their job, and I certainly do not want to see the bar lowered either in our profession. I am not at AC and I don't like what is happening to ACPA, but on the other hand I do not agree with your attitude that the company owes you. You had an opportunity to take part in the LCC in TA1 and that was shot down in flames. Now you are backtracking and want to be part of the process but you want the company to prove the business plan to you. I severely call BS! Too late, too bad, so sad. The company is going to go ahead with it whether you like it or not, and guess what? You're not invited this time

[Rockie]

I certainly do not want to see the bar lowered either in our profession.

You had an opportunity to take part in the LCC in TA1 and that was shot down in flames

TA1 would definitely have lowered the bar with the loss of pension on the one hand, and worse pay and working conditions for the LCC on the other. So, do you want to see the bar lowered or not?

[CanadianEh]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2 ... ilots.html

[rudder]

Do you know where this 'army of one' crap ends up? It ends up on a judges desk when the employer files a work-to-rule complaint against the bargaining agent. Don't believe that injunctive relief will result? Just ask the UAL pilots.

Go to work and be unhappy and unproductive if that suits you. Just don't write about it on the internet. If you have to write about it to get noticed then how effective is it anyway?

Just like the machinations of the IAM, all of this bluster, rhetoric, and BS will not change anything. it is an immature response to a very complex situation. And the worst strategic error to make is to always be predictable. CR has done a good job of NOT being predictable and look at how wound up that has gotten everybody.

[Rockie]

I can't help but notice Lisa Raitt's comments are somewhat subdued over the machinist's strike next Monday and fall way short of threatening back to work legislation. Could it be she's afraid of what will happen if they don't come back despite legislation which is a distinct possibility? That's a pretty dark cave that even this labour hostile government may not want to enter, and their back to work legislation tank may be pretty empty right now.

Begs the question what Air Canada would do without the big bad bully standing behind them.

[CanadianEh]

I can't help but notice Lisa Raitt's comments are somewhat subdued over the machinist's strike next Monday and fall way short of threatening back to work legislation. Could it be she's afraid of what will happen if they don't come back despite legislation which is a distinct possibility? That's a pretty dark cave that even this labour hostile government may not want to enter, and their back to work legislation tank may be pretty empty right now.

Begs the question what Air Canada would do without the big bad bully standing behind them.

It reminds me of what's going on with the teachers in BC. They have made it clear that even if they are legislated back to work they will not return. What are they gonna do... throw all the teachers in jail?

[rudder]

It reminds me of what's going on with the teachers in BC. They have made it clear that even if they are legislated back to work they will not return. What are they gonna do... throw all the teachers in jail?

No, they throw the union leadership in jail and then fine the union million$ of dollars in penalties. The IAM are not going to put themselves in that position.

[accumulous]

It reminds me of what's going on with the teachers in BC. They have made it clear that even if they are legislated back to work they will not return. What are they gonna do... throw all the teachers in jail?

No, they throw the union leadership in jail and then fine the union million$ of dollars in penalties. The IAM are not going to put themselves in that position.

And here's a prime example:

http://www.utwatch.org/archives/working ... ilots.html

In a display of strength and solidarity, American Airlines pilots across the country refused to work voluntary overtime, staging a 10-day sick-out which forced the cancellation of more than 6,000 flights between Feb. 6 and Feb. 17 and impacted more than 600,000 travellers.

The mass action caused widespread disruption throughout the country and may ultimately cost the carrier over $100 million in lost revenue. The pilots’ union, the Allied Pilots Association, has been forced to pay $10 million in contempt and compensation charges for failing to get the pilots to return to work.

In immediate response to the TRO, the defendants named in the document sought to alert the pilots to the court order through email, website announcements, recorded messages on the APA phone line and asked the pilots to return to work. However, by Feb. 13, Judge Kendall, unimpressed with the APA’s efforts to get the pilots back on the job, found them in contempt of his order and instructed the union to place $10 million in an account to be used to pay whatever fine he levied against them. In addition, he ordered APA President LaVoy and Vice President Mayhew pay $10,000 and $5,000 fines, respectively.

[bcflyer]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there was a wildcat strike by the rampies or engineers a few years ago that lead to threats of fines and jailtime. They stayed out and yet nobody was ever fined or jailed.

Do you really think the ramp workers at AC will meekly go back to work just because somebody in Ottawa decides to take away their right to strike? I wouldn't count on it........

[Old fella]

I can't help but notice Lisa Raitt's comments are somewhat subdued over the machinist's strike next Monday and fall way short of threatening back to work legislation. Could it be she's afraid of what will happen if they don't come back despite legislation which is a distinct possibility? That's a pretty dark cave that even this labour hostile government may not want to enter, and their back to work legislation tank may be pretty empty right now.

Begs the question what Air Canada would do without the big bad bully standing behind them.

The Harper Government (if you can call it that) will probably not push too much, if at all on this issue. Over this past few months they(Harper) has been in the sights of much scrutiny due OAS, Peeping into hard drives of citizens without judicial oversight(warrant) and the latest- very questionable tactics on the vote(that in itself is the most serious). To take on the employees of the biggest airline in Canada due ballot-box reasoning (aka ideology) will result in two more torpedoes in the water heading for the good or useless ship Harper (whichever way you want to look at – the latter for me). How much damage by the hits – who knows but it won’t be enough for yours truly………..

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... le2361387/

[Rockie]

The Harper Government (if you can call it that) will probably not push too much, if at all on this issue. Over this past few months they(Harper) has been in the sights of much scrutiny due OAS, Peeping into hard drives of citizens without judicial oversight(warrant) and the latest- very questionable tactics on the vote(that in itself is the most serious). To take on the employees of the biggest airline in Canada due ballot-box reasoning (aka ideology) will result in two more torpedoes in the water heading for the good or useless ship Harper (whichever way you want to look at – the latter for me). How much damage by the hits – who knows but it won’t be enough for yours truly………..

I'm 100% behind this opinion old fella. The Harper government's anti-labour campaign under the absurd disguise of protecting the Canadian economy has been going on for a long time (does anybody actually believe striking CSA's posed a threat to the national economy?). Back to work legislation is only to be used under the most extraordinary circumstances because it denies people their rights under the Canada Labour Code. This government has been bashing labour relentlessly and unnecessarily with that sledge hammer, and it's only a matter of time before Canadians push back whatever the cost.

I think even they know it.

[rudder]

(does anybody actually believe striking CSA's posed a threat to the national economy?).

Ironically, the only people that noticed that the CSA's were on strike were the CSA's themselves and the managers that filled in who found out what it is like to work on the front lines of the business and not spend all day sequestered in their cozy little offices. It only ended because CR told LR that the managers were not willing to continue indefinitely.

[Old fella]

The Harper Government (if you can call it that) will probably not push too much, if at all on this issue. Over this past few months they(Harper) has been in the sights of much scrutiny due OAS, Peeping into hard drives of citizens without judicial oversight(warrant) and the latest- very questionable tactics on the vote(that in itself is the most serious). To take on the employees of the biggest airline in Canada due ballot-box reasoning (aka ideology) will result in two more torpedoes in the water heading for the good or useless ship Harper (whichever way you want to look at – the latter for me). How much damage by the hits – who knows but it won’t be enough for yours truly………..

I'm 100% behind this opinion old fella. The Harper government's anti-labour campaign under the absurd disguise of protecting the Canadian economy has been going on for a long time (does anybody actually believe striking CSA's posed a threat to the national economy?). Back to work legislation is only to be used under the most extraordinary circumstances because it denies people their rights under the Canada Labour Code. This government has been bashing labour relentlessly and unnecessarily with that sledge hammer, and it's only a matter of time before Canadians push back whatever the cost.

I think even they know it.

There ya go, Rockie.............bet myself and you will get along just fine up front in your Boeing/Airbus/Embraer whatever.......... I could even spot you some stomping grounds in YYT if you are not familiar

[Rockie]

Well, the corporation got tired of dancing and has issued their ultimatum. In the first meeting with ACPA after the feds imposed a 6 month mediation time Air Canada tabled essentially the same offer and gave the union until noon tomorrow to accept it or the company would pursue all legal avenues at their disposal. Expect the pilots to be locked out on Sunday at midnight. You might also look for the federal government to come riding in legislating everybody back to work and forced into binding arbitration that will obviously not go well for the employees. The government is playing with fire, and the corporation is betting everything on the government's willingness to continue doing so.

The next few weeks are going to be interesting.

[rudder]

Well, the corporation got tired of dancing and has issued their ultimatum. In the first meeting with ACPA after the feds imposed a 6 month mediation time Air Canada tabled essentially the same offer and gave the union until noon tomorrow to accept it or the company would pursue all legal avenues at their disposal. Expect the pilots to be locked out on Sunday at midnight. You might also look for the federal government to come riding in legislating everybody back to work and forced into binding arbitration that will obviously not go well for the employees. The government is playing with fire, and the corporation is betting everything on the government's willingness to continue doing so.

The next few weeks are going to be interesting.

Well, CR has a plan. Do you?

[Rockie]

Well, CR has a plan. Do you?

If you're talking about the union then I guess we'll find out won't we?

One thing I can say for sure is that CR's plan does not include, and has never included, a motivated work force valued by the corporation they work for. Best and the brightest?

I don't think so.

[ratherbee]

Rockie,

That would be final offer arbitration. I doubt the IAMAW will be stupid enough to strike, but they will take it right to the wall.

[gegu1]

The Government should have stayed out of this in the first place, now the're involved and they will pay the price politically. I think right now AC would prefer if the govn't stay out of this so that they can file for bankruptcy and go through the badly needed reorganization. If they impose another arbitration it will not improve the dire situation AC is in, they will still be loosing money. This cannot go on like this forever, at some point the company has to realize that a real change is needed and I think that this moment has arrived. All of their competitors have much lower costs, the only way to go forward means reorganization, reworking of the pensions issue, lower wages, getting rid of some routes, firing some employees, etc.

[rudder]

Well, CR has a plan. Do you?

If you're talking about the union then I guess we'll find out won't we?

One thing I can say for sure is that CR's plan does not include, and has never included, a motivated work force valued by the corporation they work for. Best and the brightest?

I don't think so.

I have read the bulletin. And while distressing, once again it shows that CR can act in a fashion that was not anticipated. I certainly hope that you have retained advisors that are capable of a strategic response that goes beyond the 'army of one'.

Isn't it time to take a leadership role in the process and start to dictate the agenda? CR will eat you up unless and until you stop being predictable and start to offer solutions that make his look weak by comparison.

I do wish you luck but time is certainly running out.

[Rockie]

Isn't it time to take a leadership role in the process and start to dictate the agenda? CR will eat you up unless and until you stop being predictable and start to offer solutions that make his look weak by comparison.

The previous MEC leadership attempted such a leadership role extolling the considerable benefits of an engaged and motivated pilot group. CR and team took advantage of that spirit of cooperation and stabbed us in the back with it. Hence where we are today.

This has turned into a bare knuckled cage fight thanks to a management that treats the employees as the enemy blaming them for their failure to operate a successful company. Given a choice between being treated with respect and regarded as an asset, and an all out brawl to protect our livelihood from corporate bloodsuckers draining the trough dry before moving on to richer pastures, which do you think the employees would prefer?

I know which one I prefer, unfortunately I'm not being given a choice.

[Fanblade]

I have read the bulletin. And while distressing, once again it shows that CR can act in a fashion that was not anticipated.

Not anticipated?

Wow I sure hope you are way off the mark.

The previous MOA. Arbitration jurisprudence when an MOA exists. The political environment.

Throw these in a pot and arbitration has always looked to be the companies end game. No matter how much we behave ourselves there has always been the company option to lockout.

Unanticipated? I doubt it. Question is can we do much about it. Despite all the lobbying Raitt seems to be aligning herself behind AC management with her statements in the press.

At the end of the day ignoring back to work legislation may be the only option. An option I don't think pilots in general have the stones for.

The IAM on the other hand.........

[ogopogo]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2 ... trike.html

Now what?