WestJet Mainline/Encore Hiring pool

[True North]

I should of added "Take what I say with a grain of salt".

Don't worry, that's a given.

I echo what lostaviator stated, you're a real class act.

[dukepoint]

I love how you guys think you have it all figured out. Just to set the record straight, I have never applied to Encore or wj and never will. Life is too good over here to even be bothered by it. And if you read the deeper message in my rant you'd realize that I'm actually standing up for your guys' qualifications that aren't being looked at and probably should be, because the type of qualification that is being looked at clearly isn't working out for them. If you see that as an entitlement issue or some indication that I must of interviewed and been pfod then there's clearly a disconnect between what I'm intending to say, and what I'm saying. I've never personally met the iguana to know her or have an impression of her, but have heard enough from guys both pfod and offered the job and guys and gals working in the teal team on what a piece of work she is. And I see the relationship between that and how she selects candidates. Is it working? Nope. I've got to say though, it's been amusing to read your assumptions on here lol.

Dude, I'm not sure I'd want you as my right hand man on a long overseas flight.....I'd probably ask you to go stand in the galley if you went on a rant like that on the flightdeck. Chill. Westjet is obviously doing something very, very right. The culture is intact, as is their safety record. You seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder about something, and in Aviation, that is never, ever good. What would make someone so rabid about WJ's hiring practices only leads us to one conclusion.....the simplest explanation is usually the right one. Maybe taking a break from the forums would be a good move, so you can take some time to consider your next career move in a less heated state.


DP.

[AirMail]

Yeah I retract saying I agree with him on the previous page before his delusional rant, he's clearly a nut job.

[complexintentions]

And trust me, the WJ environment isn't a place where aptitude is measured. You have a buddy, you get your recommend, come in, and so long as you can play a version of kumbaya and dance in a circle jerk with the iguana you're considered teal material.

Classic. And absolutely true. I had no idea there isn't even a sim eval for the Encore gig. WTF? Oh well, as long as you look good on paper and your buddy says you're good I guess. The oxygen thieves in HR with the arts degree and zero operational and often, life experience, will save the day. They've like, read books about psychology and stuff.

I can personally attest to the fact that lack of time in either seat of some piston twin or turboprop has absolutely nothing to do with competency as a pilot. Disagree with HB777LW's colourful delivery if you want, but his message is dead on. And actually in the best interest of the pilots in Canada at large. But hey, whatever. It's all about immediacy. Longterm thinking died long ago. . someone in the seat and get 'er done. It'll work just fine right up until it doesn't.

With all the sensitive hand-wringers it's hard to tell who's just trying to suck up to WestJet HR. Credibility? It seems to me that when someone truly doesn't care if they're hired by a company, it gives them a certain freedom to say things others are too afraid to. Perhaps that fact should be considered before dismissing views simply because they don't fit your own too well?

Geez I haven't enjoyed reading a good verbal beat-down like that in awhile! hahaha!

dukepoint, is it possible you could try not to sound quite so paternalistic and so obvious in trying to humble-brag your position? I mean, if you're not too busy explaining how to fly big jets or checking out your colleagues grooming.

[sstaurus]

I think we can all agree Sim Evals would go a long way for making their hiring decisions based on merit, and not some hippy dippy fairy dust matrix based on numbers in a logbook.

[eh3fifty]

Go look at a few YouTube videos with high view numbers. No matter how good a video is, when there are lots of views, there is bound to be a few people who dislike the video. It'll be something like 0.15% or less dislike the video.

It seems that's quite similar to what's going on here. WestJet is doing well and many Canadians love WestJet a lot more than AC. But there's always a few people that dislike any person, place, or thing that gets to be well known. It's the way of life.

I find it interesting though that someone would spend so much time ranting on something that they don't like at a particular company when they're not involved with said company.

Edit: sstaurus - I agree that sim evals would be ideal. But that's the only constructive criticism that I've seen in this thread. The rest is just hogwash.

[KK7]

If it ain't broke, why fix it?

Obviously there are nay sayers, but WJ and WJE seem to be doing just fine.

[True North]

I think we can all agree Sim Evals would go a long way for making their hiring decisions based on merit, and not some hippy dippy fairy dust matrix based on numbers in a logbook.

I don't agree.

I worked for a company that did sim evals for a while, I was an A check at the time so I was directly involved. Colossally expensive waste of time.

I'm curious why the proponents of a sim eval think it is the answer? What exactly do you think you will be able to determine from a one or two hour sim session, in a type the candidate has probably never flown, with SOPs/emergency procedures the candidate is not familiar with and in what may be the candidate's first ever exposure to a simulator?

The reality is about one in twenty candidates stand out - either good or bad - and the rest is a wash. So after spending thousands of dollars you might have identified one all star or flushed someone, but you have learned little about the rest.

At the end of the day, an employer can use any criteria they want (excluding race, gender, age etc., at least in Canada). WJ/Encore have their process and for the most part it seems to be working. HB777LW didn't get through so they must be doing something right. I have no doubt his personality came shining through during the interview, just as it does here.

[Diadem]

Is it working? Nope.

What are you basing that on? On-time performance? Cost effectiveness? Accident and CADOR rate? I'm really curious how an airline isn't "working" if it's still in business.

[Bede]

The whole interview process is a crap shoot at any corporation. There is quite a bit of academic literature supporting the hypothesis that HR interviews have little more success than random selection. Of course the HR types would disagree. I imagine sim evals would be similar. Some people interview well others do not.

WRT to internal recommends, I have heard that WJ studied this and found that the pilots hired by internal recommends had similar characteristics to the pilots who recommended them. Guys who work hard, show up to work generally hang around with like minded people. By contrast, lazy douche bags usually hang around other lazy douche bags. I wouldn't be surprised if they look into the guy recommending an applicant before they call him. Pure speculation, but perhaps if the guy recommending you is a problem child, you may not want to have him recommend you.

I know the one thing they do is look you up on FB and other social networks. If your FB is full of pictures of you with bottle in hand, they may give you a pass.

[SundayDriver]

The whole interview process is a crap shoot at any corporation. There is quite a bit of academic literature supporting the hypothesis that HR interviews have little more success than random selection. Of course the HR types would disagree. I imagine sim evals would be similar. Some people interview well others do not.

WRT to internal recommends, I have heard that WJ studied this and found that the pilots hired by internal recommends had similar characteristics to the pilots who recommended them. Guys who work hard, show up to work generally hang around with like minded people. By contrast, lazy douche bags usually hang around other lazy douche bags. I wouldn't be surprised if they look into the guy recommending an applicant before they call him. Pure speculation, but perhaps if the guy recommending you is a problem child, you may not want to have him recommend you.

I know the one thing they do is look you up on FB and other social networks. If your FB is full of pictures of you with bottle in hand, they may give you a pass.

Well said.

[complexintentions]

I think we can all agree Sim Evals would go a long way for making their hiring decisions based on merit, and not some hippy dippy fairy dust matrix based on numbers in a logbook.

I don't agree.

I worked for a company that did sim evals for a while, I was an A check at the time so I was directly involved. Colossally expensive waste of time.

I'm curious why the proponents of a sim eval think it is the answer? What exactly do you think you will be able to determine from a one or two hour sim session, in a type the candidate has probably never flown, with SOPs/emergency procedures the candidate is not familiar with and in what may be the candidate's first ever exposure to a simulator?

The reality is about one in twenty candidates stand out - either good or bad - and the rest is a wash. So after spending thousands of dollars you might have identified one all star or flushed someone, but you have learned little about the rest.

At the end of the day, an employer can use any criteria they want (excluding race, gender, age etc., at least in Canada). WJ/Encore have their process and for the most part it seems to be working. HB777LW didn't get through so they must be doing something right. I have no doubt his personality came shining through during the interview, just as it does here.

Pretty sure HB777LW made it clear that he isn't a failed candidate at WestJet, but if it makes you feel better to chant that tired old cliche, I suppose that's worth something.

But your statement about the lack of value of sim evals is crap. I don't know what company you worked for, but there are solid reasons why every major international operator uses a sim eval as part of the process. The type has nothing to do with it, nor does familiarity with the prospective company's SOP's and procedures, nor experience in a simulator. Assessing flying abilities is actually of quite low importance. They're looking more for ability to adapt and learn, and identifying how a candidate manages various scenarios. You cannot bluff your way through a properly conducted practical exercise the way you might be able to in an interview.

If your company was only able to "learn little" in the process, it says more about your company and the people conducting the evaluations, than the process. It seems from you statement that they were more concerned with the cost. Which I would also bet the farm is the real reason Encore doesn't use them, not anything to do with lack of value whatsoever.

Ya get what you (are willing to) pay for, always. Whether in hiring or compensation.

[watermeth]

so, to be back on topic: is there any Mainline grd school forecasted after November ?
how many guys are standing in Mainline pool as of today ?
safe flights

[Old fella]

"I know the one thing they do is look you up on FB and other social networks. If your FB is full of pictures of you with bottle in hand, they may give you a pass."


Jeez...... some of the funniest, pleasant and all round good guys/gals have bottle pictures on FB cause they are in the company of similar people - enjoying the life experiences. Good crew to be around, may I suggest. Some of you airline people gotta get a grip, yours isn't the standard to which all working people are measured by, aviation isn't the big"happening", never was, not now and never will be. In that Pacific Ocean of aviation WJ/Encore(as good as they are) are just a squirt of piss on the vast waters. You are not all that important..........

Chill out.

[flyer 1492]

+1

[True North]

Pretty sure HB777LW made it clear that he isn't a failed candidate at WestJet, but if it makes you feel better to chant that tired old cliche, I suppose that's worth something.

Oh, he did indeed. He also posted a couple of essays on here, laced with vitriol and derogatory statements against a particular individual. Nobody does that unless they are personally invested. I've read a lot of your posts, I figured you were clever enough to see that.

But your statement about the lack of value of sim evals is crap. I don't know what company you worked for, but there are solid reasons why every major international operator uses a sim eval as part of the process. The type has nothing to do with it, nor does familiarity with the prospective company's SOP's and procedures, nor experience in a simulator. Assessing flying abilities is actually of quite low importance. They're looking more for ability to adapt and learn, and identifying how a candidate manages various scenarios. You cannot bluff your way through a properly conducted practical exercise the way you might be able to in an interview.

If your company was only able to "learn little" in the process, it says more about your company and the people conducting the evaluations, than the process. It seems from you statement that they were more concerned with the cost. Which I would also bet the farm is the real reason Encore doesn't use them, not anything to do with lack of value whatsoever.

I guess if you are taking 250 hour candidates into a sim eval you might see more disparity. We were hiring high time experienced people because the company was expanding quickly and upgrades were coming fast and like I said, a few stood out and the rest were graded so close together it was a wash. After we stopped the sim evals the quality of candidates and the failure rate through training never changed so the value of the eval was hard to see.

Ya get what you (are willing to) pay for, always. Whether in hiring or compensation.

No argument there.

[complexintentions]

Oh, he did indeed. He also posted a couple of essays on here, laced with vitriol and derogatory statements against a particular individual. Nobody does that unless they are personally invested. I've read a lot of your posts, I figured you were clever enough to see that.

It's pretty obvious he has a personal distaste for this person (and I can pretty much guess who it is). It doesn't prove nor disprove he ever went through an interview there though. And it certainly doesn't invalidate his description! lol I just think it's a cheap cop-out to write off criticisms one doesn't agree with as "bitter failed applicants".

I guess if you are taking 250 hour candidates into a sim eval you might see more disparity. We were hiring high time experienced people because the company was expanding quickly and upgrades were coming fast and like I said, a few stood out and the rest were graded so close together it was a wash. After we stopped the sim evals the quality of candidates and the failure rate through training never changed so the value of the eval was hard to see.

Statement doesn't make logical sense really. Most airlines I know using sim evals are large, established carriers screening very experienced applicants, not 250 hour wonders. As I said, it's more to assess - jargon alert - management style, adaptability, and teachability. If it happens to reveal that an applicant can't keep the thing upright without the autopilot, then that's a bonus but hardly the main objective at the experience level most are seeking.

I'm not saying that a sim eval is always necessary to get a decent candidate. But a small low-cost like Encore and whatever outfit you worked for are hardly representative of how things are done pretty much anywhere else in the world and I thought you were pretty dismissive, considering that fact. But I'm sure Air Canada, all the American majors, the Asian giants, the ME mega-carriers are all watching Encore closely to see how it can be done cheaper.

Or maybe not.

[Bede]

Old Fella,

That was quite a ringing defense of the libatious lifestyle;) Looks like I hit a nerve;)

Rest assured, it's not just wj that looks at social media, it's nearly every HR department. Welcome to the 21st century; where those who demand privacy are the most willing to share.

[Old fella]

Bede.
It is (defense) and you did (nerve). I am assured (believe me) HR depts. et al are into Facebook creeping – nothing new here. I did introduce myself to the 21st century (iPad mini, i5c, trusty Dell) communication to my twitter and FB lot – fun bunch. Now if I could convince some of the older goats to take a look, it may get them from pacing the malls and/or their Tim’s hangouts – that’s another story. Now if would be/wanna be Westjetters have posted pics with swastikas , questionable flags, a deference to authority while at the same time rants on our gun laws, well yes that rates a second look. Much as I think aviation isn’t the “happening”, those involved with this industry don’t fall into that category. We are just social media charmers……

Just step back, on yer next BBQ get yourself a single vineyard Northern Rhone Cote Rotie, you can afford it as you get the big bucks ( yes you earned and deserve it). If you really want to knock the sock off, that white gem Albarino from northern Spain (Galicia) with its lightness and acidity – orgasmic. You just may get lucky

Chill out

[sstaurus]

I'm sure they're only interested in your drinking photos if they mostly involve you being passed out in the majority of them, or streaking naked through town. Normal social pictures of you having drinks with buds shouldn't be a problem!

[HB777LW]

And trust me, the WJ environment isn't a place where aptitude is measured. You have a buddy, you get your recommend, come in, and so long as you can play a version of kumbaya and dance in a circle jerk with the iguana you're considered teal material.

Classic. And absolutely true. I had no idea there isn't even a sim eval for the Encore gig. WTF? Oh well, as long as you look good on paper and your buddy says you're good I guess. The oxygen thieves in HR with the arts degree and zero operational and often, life experience, will save the day. They've like, read books about psychology and stuff.

I can personally attest to the fact that lack of time in either seat of some piston twin or turboprop has absolutely nothing to do with competency as a pilot. Disagree with HB777LW's colourful delivery if you want, but his message is dead on. And actually in the best interest of the pilots in Canada at large. But hey, whatever. It's all about immediacy. Longterm thinking died long ago. . someone in the seat and get 'er done. It'll work just fine right up until it doesn't.

With all the sensitive hand-wringers it's hard to tell who's just trying to suck up to WestJet HR. Credibility? It seems to me that when someone truly doesn't care if they're hired by a company, it gives them a certain freedom to say things others are too afraid to. Perhaps that fact should be considered before dismissing views simply because they don't fit your own too well?

Geez I haven't enjoyed reading a good verbal beat-down like that in awhile! hahaha!

dukepoint, is it possible you could try not to sound quite so paternalistic and so obvious in trying to humble-brag your position? I mean, if you're not too busy explaining how to fly big jets or checking out your colleagues grooming.

Couldn't of said it any better.

I will conclude by offering you my reasons for why I think the majority of you writers on here are a bunch of ... well let's just call it that "...." How many of you said "no wonder he didn't make it through" "the screening works to keep guys like HB777LW out" or some similar statement. Who said I was a guy in the first place? Does a female not have a spot in the aviation industry? My point is made, you guys and gals think you have it all figured out. I would love to look at your typical wen/wja commanders and compare them to that of the rest of the world. Actually no, let's just start the comparison with AC first. You will be viewed as laughing stock. For those of you that seem to think that "it's working just fine" well I have news for you, it's about to change. It already has. DaveP himself said that these winners aren't ready to upgrade. Further, it will be that day when one of you winners puts that 29 million dollar plane to the side of the calgary tower on an imc night because mr vfr king air captain doesn't know an essential piece of information with regards to the activation of APP mode in his/her fancy little Crash 8 glass cockpit that an F/O who has time on type, and if given a command assessment would otherwise be able to catch due to at the very least having relevant experience. So sure the system has worked so far (covered up by many successful PR outbreaks), but like complex says - the day of that not working is getting nearer, and nearer. It's at that time that the light bulb will go off in you wj brewing mentalities and you realize that the word of nutjobs like I, or Complex turned into reality. The sad part about all of this is that I'm standing up for you so-called class acts and you can't even see it. I have never interviewed at wj and never want to anyway. And my acknowledgement of the iguana has no meaning whatsoever to my status queue at this winning airline. Yes, that's right, people can get to know industry recruitment individuals outside of an interview environment as well.
So to those of you who have turned this thread into a novel study about my success scoring a job with a company that lets me scream WHEE on takeoff, I seriously feel sorry for you. If you only got to experience what I or complex experience in our life style and career, you'd be in the same boat as us feeling so disappointed about qualified pilots that are just getting bent over and fisted back on home soil. Instead of seeing the deeper message where I'm standing up for the very same applicants like yourselves, you're just adding shit to the pile which ironically is probably exactly the same shit you're bitching about in your DH8 300/400 flight decks making 39k/yr with no room to grow or upgrade. But I won't let my message become lost due to the distraction you guys/gals have offered because there are a lot of deserving people like yourselves who should be given a shot and aren't. If you think I'm a nut job or lack class and ethics for believing this, then I apologize for offending anyone. Perhaps the message was lost in my colourful delivery as so beautifully explained by complex - who I need not remind has more experience than the last 4 pages of this thread combined. Not that we should bow down to his replies, but he has been around the block and has a very educated outlook on this industry. Just read through his posts.

I look forward to observing your rants hereinafter. I won't take part in them because the essence of my message has clearly been received by anyone that has actually read what I've said. Good luck to you all.

[True North]

Whatever.

[Batman]

I wasn't to sure if that 777 guy had actually applied at WJ but having read his last post its fairly obvious that he's been pfo'd. Good luck on your next try.

[AirMail]

.....someone give him a recommend already

[complexintentions]

Already covered, thanks.

I just think it's a cheap cop-out to write off criticisms one doesn't agree with as "bitter failed applicants".

Try refuting the opinion, not the person.