Sunwing/Canjet Fleet & Foreign Pilots - Winter 2014-2015

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I was told by a TVS pilot that they will be flying for Transat this winter. Do you know if this is true Gilles? If so can you please tell us how many pilots will be arriving and when with which airplanes and whether they are wet-leased or not?

Thank you.

What I know is that Air Transat dry-leased two Travel Service 737-800s. They will be registered in Canada prior to ferry and ferried by Canadian Air Transat pilots.

OK-TSC will become C-GTQX and OK-TVY will become C-GTQY.

Air Transat leased 8 additional B-737s which are going to arrive between now and sometime in December (which includes the two Travel Service aircraft)

I will be flying 737s this winter by the way. I did my check ride a few days ago........

If you have credible information about wet-leases, or foreign pilots at Air Transat, please post it here. I am most eager to find out.

[Dick]

Winter 2014/2015 seems cast in stone at 37 aircraft/5 wet lease/120 TFWP.

As far as I can tell on the CTA website, Sunwing applied for 4 wet leases for this winter, all from Travel Service. Three were approved by the CTA and approval of the fourth is pending, for some insurance papers if my memory is correct.

These 120 Temporary Foreign Worker pilots would not be able to fly in Canada if Transport Canada applied the CARs and required a Canadian pilots' licence for flying Canadian commercial aircraft in Canada instead of constantly allowing Foreign licenced pilots to apply for or renew Foreign Licence Validation Certificates, often for several consecutive years.

The Europeans do not allow foreign licensed pilots to fly European Registered commercial aircraft in Europe, nor do the the Americans (FAA) allow commercial flying in the US on US aircraft with a foreign licence. Here is the relevant Federal Aviation Regulation (FAR):

§121.383 Airman: Limitations on use of services.
(a) No certificate holder may use any person as an airman nor may any person serve as an airman unless that person—

(1) Holds an appropriate current airman certificate issued by the FAA;

The only time one can fly a US registered aircraft with a foreign licence is if the US registered aircraft is leased to a Non-US Citizen (foreign company or airline)

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SI ... 7&rgn=div8

This CAR was supposed to mean the same thing as the FAA version :

Pilot Qualifications
705.106 (1) Subject to subsection (3), no air operator shall permit a person to act and no person shall act as the pilot-in-command, second-in-command or cruise relief pilot of an aircraft unless the person
(a) holds the licence, ratings and endorsements required by Part IV;

But this Regulation of the CARs was purposely misinterpreted and its meaning and purpose distorted by certain people at TC to serve commercial interests. Those people at TC justify their interpretation by claiming that a Foreign Licence Validation Certificate is a

licence, ratings and endorsements required by Part IV

What is happening in Canada is as though the FAA suddenly began to issue Special purpose pilot authorizations under FAR 61.77 (see above link) to Foreign Licensed pilots and then claiming that these Special purpose pilot authorization were

appropriate current airman certificate issued by the FAA

and thus fulfilled the requirement of of FAR 121.383, allowing these foreign licensed to fly Commercially in the US. Such a distorted and dishonest interpretation of Regulations by the Regulator himself would never fly South of the Border and if they tried it, ALPA would pounce on it with all its might and ressources. But this is Canada, and North of the Border it is not really ALPA but just the ALPA Canada Board........an entity without teeth that is all too willing to let the Regulator violate the CARs sometimes, in the name of obscure higher interests......

So now, according the Regulator, anyone with a valid Airline Licence from any country in the world can legally fly Canadian aircraft commercially. Anyone from an ICAO member country that is. I think that ICAO restriction only excludes licensed pilots from the Vatican.......

Hey, I thought the OP said near the beginning of this thread that this was a place for aviation enthusiasts to come and see what airplanes are coming and going. I guess Gilles missed that post...I'm sure it was an honest oversight.

[florch]

I was told by a TVS pilot that they will be flying for Transat this winter. Do you know if this is true Gilles? If so can you please tell us how many pilots will be arriving and when with which airplanes and whether they are wet-leased or not?

Thank you.

What I know is that Air Transat dry-leased two Travel Service 737-800s. They will be registered in Canada prior to ferry and ferried by Canadian Air Transat pilots.

OK-TSC will become C-GTQX and OK-TVY will become C-GTQY.

Air Transat leased 8 additional B-737s which are going to arrive between now and sometime in December (which includes the two Travel Service aircraft)

I will be flying 737s this winter by the way. I did my check ride a few days ago........

If you have credible information about wet-leases, or foreign pilots at Air Transat, please post it here. I am most eager to find out.

Me too. That's why I asked because I thought you'd be in the know. It seemed like a reliable source but I'll classify it as rumour until I hear better.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

G-TAWJ, from Thomson, was ferried from MAN to YYZ on Novembre 25 and became C-GVOJ registered to Suwning.

The fleet now consists of 24 Canadian registered aircraft and 3 foreign wet-leases, for a total of 27 aircraft.

At 24 Canadian registered aircraft, Sunwing, with just its 260 to 270 Canadian licenced pilots on staff, now operates more than the number of aircraft it could possibly operate without the help of seasonal contract TFW pilots.

(As a comparison, Air Transat which has a permanent year round fleet of 25 aircraft, and a peak winter fleet of about 28 to 29 aircraft, employs over 450 full time pilots.)

This means that once again ESDC provided LMOs to Sunwing on the basis that Canadian pilots who did not have a valid 737NG type rating were not "qualified".

This means that these TFW pilots received a work permit from Immigration Canada on their arrival in Canada, on the basis of the LMOs issued by EDSC.

This means that Transport Canada, once again, is going to issue Foreign Licence Validation Certificates to these TFW pilots, allowing them to fly Canadian Registered aircraft under Part 705 in Canada with a pilots licence issued by another country.

[Rogerdodger2]

Blah blah blah,
What are you going to do with your time once licence recognition between TC and EASA is a reality. It's coming don't fool yourself!

[Dh8Classic]

But once again, Sunwing plans to hire more Canadian pilots next year with no artificial restriction to vastly favour one region over all the rest.

So the temporary foreign workers are really helping more Canadians ACROSS the country get hired as it allows a cost efficient operation.

I think the government understands this as appropriate politicians now know this.

What's a few foreign workers anyways. Probably less now than will be going the other way in the summer.

I gotta admit, there really is a lot of WG flights on the YYZ departures board nowadays. Lots of Rouge as well.

[FL320]

Rogerdodger,
Don't expect any EASA/TCCA licence agreement anytime soon (info from a friend working on it at TC). Eventually it will come in the future but there is still a lot of work to do. The new EASA is even more restrictive than the previous JAR system (they removed the licence validation for experienced pilots who only had to pass the Air Law and Ops precedures exams in order to get a JAR conversion).
Also Europeans are really protectionist and with all the highly experienced pilots looking for a job over there, I am pretty sure that they won't make the licence conversion easier in the near future...

If we look at Sunwing; I really wonder what will happen next summer. As you probably know, all the pilots who went to Europe this year won't be allowed next summer. There is no magical issue and don't expect a last minute issue as we had last april. The law is clear and the licence validation for these pilots was only possible for 1 year and this can never be revalidated. They now have to get the EASA licence. The partner airlines in Europe are already planning the hiring of European pilots to cover their need for next summer..

[Rogerdodger2]

Rogerdodger,


If we look at Sunwing; I really wonder what will happen next summer. As you probably know, all the pilots who went to Europe this year won't be allowed next summer. There is no magical issue and don't expect a last minute issue as we had last april. The law is clear and the licence validation for these pilots was only possible for 1 year and this can never be revalidated. They now have to get the EASA licence. The partner airlines in Europe are already planning the hiring of European pilots to cover their need for next summer..

Want to bet???
Remember this thread when another exemption is issued.

[FL320]

If it helps you to sleep better you can believe what you want. Anyway it won't change my life
The exemption will only be applicable to pilots who haven't been to Europe this year. This is written black on white on an official document, no exemption will be issued for the other pilots next year.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Blah blah blah,
What are you going to do with your time once licence recognition between TC and EASA is a reality. It's coming don't fool yourself!

You really believe I consider this to be a bad thing ? You are very uninformed for someone who comments most of my posts. Do you even read them before you comment ? I've asked you that same question in the past and you keep hammering away........

EASA-TC licence recognition would be a good thing because for the time being, TC allows EASA licenced pilots to fly Canadian Registered aircraft while EASA does not allow TC licenced pilots to fly European registered aircraft. So reciprocal recognition would benefit CANADIAN pilots, something I am in favour of. CANADIAN pilots would thus be allowed to do what the European pilots do in Canada. Is this not good ? Why on Earth would I think otherwise ?

Why do I have to spell such a simple notion to you ? You can't possibly be that ....... so I have to assume bad faith on your part.

For the time being however, EASA regulations DO NOT allow TC licensed pilots to fly European registered aircraft, as you very well know, while TC, in violation of the CARs, which do not allow foreign licenced pilots to fly commercially in Canada, bows to certain Canadian commercial interests and issues FLVCs to foreign licenced pilots anyway.

So not only are we allowing European pilots a privilege European authorities do not afford to the Canadian pilots, we are also doing it in violation of our own regulations, all to accommodate those in the industry, both Canadian and Foreign, which PROFIT from the inequality............

How you can be against this simple reasoning, if you truly are a Canadian pilot is beyond my level of reasoning..........

[pelmet]

But once again, Sunwing plans to hire more Canadian pilots next year with no artificial restriction to vastly favour one region over all the rest.

So the temporary foreign workers are really helping more Canadians ACROSS the country get hired as it allows a cost efficient operation.

I think the government understands this as appropriate politicians now know this.

What's a few foreign workers anyways. Probably less now than will be going the other way in the summer.

I gotta admit, there really are a lot of WG flights on the YYZ departures board nowadays. Lots of Rouge as well.

WestJet has a lot of southern destinations as well out of YYZ.

[gonnabeapilot]

G-TAWJ, from Thomson, was ferried from MAN to YYZ on Novembre 25 and became C-GVOJ registered to Suwning.

The fleet now consists of 24 Canadian registered aircraft and 3 foreign wet-leases, for a total of 27 aircraft.

At 24 Canadian registered aircraft, Sunwing, with just its 260 to 270 Canadian licenced pilots on staff, now operates more than the number of aircraft it could possibly operate without the help of seasonal contract TFW pilots.

(As a comparison, Air Transat which has a permanent year round fleet of 25 aircraft, and a peak winter fleet of about 28 to 29 aircraft, employs over 450 full time pilots.)

This means that once again ESDC provided LMOs to Sunwing on the basis that Canadian pilots who did not have a valid 737NG type rating were not "qualified".

This means that these TFW pilots received a work permit from Immigration Canada on their arrival in Canada, on the basis of the LMOs issued by EDSC.

This means that Transport Canada, once again, is going to issue Foreign Licence Validation Certificates to these TFW pilots, allowing them to fly Canadian Registered aircraft under Part 705 in Canada with a pilots licence issued by another country.

My understanding is that Sunwing will have 110 Europeans flying on FLVCs this winter. This is 10 less than last year. It may seem like an insignificant improvement but it is still a step in the right direction. Especially when you consider that this winter Sunwing will have increased its fleet by six aircraft over last year. More airplanes, less foreign pilots. This is what people say they want to see. Change does not happen over night but that doesn't mean change isn't happening...

[rooster]

Blah blah blah,
What are you going to do with your time once licence recognition between TC and EASA is a reality. It's coming don't fool yourself!

Thanks fleet police!



What a waste of time. Do you think you're exposing or uncovering some big secret?

I thought you believed this thread to be a waste of time. Why are you still lingering here like bad breath? Run along...nothing for you to see here.

[whipline]

All of us wg'ers owe Gilles a big thank you. Because of his hard work he's made the procedure of bringing in tfw's more streamlined. This was wg's easiest year applying and receiving approval.

Thanks Gilles!!

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Two Dry-Leases added to the Sunwing fleet on Dec 02.

OO-JAQ from Jetairfly became C-FOAQ and G-FDZJ from Thomson became C-FRZJ.

Of course with a fresh batch of TFW pilots to fly them.......

[Sunwing738]

Two Dry-Leases added to the Sunwing fleet on Dec 02.

OO-JAQ from Jetairfly became C-FOAQ and G-FDZJ from Thomson became C-FRZJ.

Of course with a fresh batch of TFW pilots to fly them.......

OO-JAQ was ferried on December 1st. Also today, December 3rd, Travel Service OK-TVR is ferrying Prague-Reykjavik-Montreal. This is most likely a wet-lease aircraft.

[gonnabeapilot]

Today Sunwing announced the largest fleet investment in the company's history. The deal is for six aircraft that will be delivered between now and 2019. The order is mixed between 2 738s to be delivered in 2016/2017 and 4 737 MAX 8s to be delivered in 2018/2019. This is in addition to the 5 aircraft the company plans to add to its fleet by May 2015. Upon delivery of the last MAX, Sunwing's year round fleet will be at 22 aircraft.

Press Release here: http://www.sunwing.ca/newsstory.asp?id=502

[Dh8Classic]

Today Sunwing announced the largest fleet investment in the company's history. The deal is for six aircraft that will be delivered between now and 2019. The order is mixed between 2 738s to be delivered in 2016/2017 and 4 737 MAX 8s to be delivered in 2018/2019. This is in addition to the 5 aircraft the company plans to add to its fleet by May 2015. Upon delivery of the last MAX, Sunwing's year round fleet will be at 22 aircraft.

737 Max for WG. Looks like the company is operating in Maximum overdrive with expansion continuing. Of course for Gilles, this news will be Grody to the Max.

http://www.nitehawkcinema.com/2012/08/g ... screening/

[FL320]

737NG or Max...what's the difference...it's just a plane. After 6 months you'll still become bored to push the same switches anyway, the difference is that your European F/O colleagues get a better salary than you to fly the same aircraft...

[ea306]

I'll keep my Captains salary over my EU Fo's salary any day....

Anyways... Great to see the improving trends. More Canadian pilot opportunities with a growing & financially profitable company.

Very glad I came here when I did.

[Rogerdodger2]

Yes very happy to be here. With the consensus among the CFALPA execs being SW has the best overall working conditions in the country, we have a lot to be thankful for.

[rudder]

Great news for SWG and the SW pilots.

Heard that there will be another round of upgrades for 2015.

[whipline]

So 320, you used to work for sunwing now you don't? Now you bash them? Here's a thought.. GFU!! Clearly your a little upset you left. See ya!!

[TFTMB heavy]

What CFALPA?

[aerosexual]

What CFALPA?

Here you go TFTMB

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... =5&t=96552