Negotiations

[rudder]

The AC pilots had their B1s taken today. It seems AC jist wants to go to war with the pilots, and that is fine. They just sent the biggest single yet the Jazz is a sinking ship and we will see people really jump to life boats now.

These people in charge are really something else. They are playing this game with outdated rules.

Likely a response to receiving the reopener letter from the AC MEC/ALPA.

[Inverted2]

Didn’t our amazing 17 year contract state Jazz would do all the CPA flying? I guess that’s not being followed just like the AC flow isn’t being followed?

[rudder]

Didn’t our amazing 17 year contract state Jazz would do all the CPA flying? I guess that’s not being followed just like the AC flow isn’t being followed?

Respect is a two way street.

Jazz pilots collectively cannot unilaterally modify the terms of the CBA. They need a willing partner to do so.

But Jazz pilots can individually make choices about where they choose to offer their professional services.

Lots are doing so as we speak. Todays corporate announcement won’t improve Pilot retention rates at Jazz.

[Inverted2]

Also where are they going to get pilots with those wages?

[rudder]

Also where are they going to get pilots with those wages?

If the bases are YYT/YHZ then you might find willing applicants due to cost-of-living.

And who knows, maybe there will be an associated flow deal?

[goleafsgo]

https://www.exchangeincomecorp.ca/wcm-d ... 065507.pdf

This can't be good for the Q400 operations on the east coast with Jazz. I didn't think another airline could operate Q400 for Air Canada Express with the current contract.

Correct. Jazz's service will be reduced as planned.

AC pilot scope (Article 1) does not specify how many Express operators AC can contract. It simply sets limits on the Express fleet and gauge.

It would be the CHR CPA that would contain any exclusively provisions. Seemingly, based on this announcement they either do not exist or have been or will be waived by CHR.

For those that were not around at the time, this has all of the appearance of GGN round 2. May even be Jazz operated (but AC controlled) Q400’s that are transferred to PAL.

Once again, obvious that AC has developed a mitigation plan to deal with the circumstance where Jazz/CHR cannot meet planned flying levels due to pilot staffing issues.

Jazz is supposed to operate 100% of the 70+ seat flying as per the amendment when sky was absorbed into jazz

[truedude]

Correct. Jazz's service will be reduced as planned.

AC pilot scope (Article 1) does not specify how many Express operators AC can contract. It simply sets limits on the Express fleet and gauge.

It would be the CHR CPA that would contain any exclusively provisions. Seemingly, based on this announcement they either do not exist or have been or will be waived by CHR.

For those that were not around at the time, this has all of the appearance of GGN round 2. May even be Jazz operated (but AC controlled) Q400’s that are transferred to PAL.

Once again, obvious that AC has developed a mitigation plan to deal with the circumstance where Jazz/CHR cannot meet planned flying levels due to pilot staffing issues.

Jazz is supposed to operate 100% of the 70+ seat flying as per the amendment when sky was absorbed into jazz

Exactly. I suspect the union will push a grievance. And if AC does this, then the terms we absorbed Sky are also in violation.

This reeks of desperation on ACs part, and an attempt to scare us as if it were 20 years ago. They are like children throwing a temper tantrum.

[QKZXKV]

This is exactly why I was a loud NO to the 2019 contract. I didn't see any protection from this kind of BS. I remember a very vocal ALPA Canada person up talking with a very political campaign-esque speech about "leverage", "leverage", "leverage". Yup, looks like that really worked. Hey though, that "flow" was a no brainer wasn't it?

[hank998899]

AC pilot scope (Article 1) does not specify how many Express operators AC can contract. It simply sets limits on the Express fleet and gauge.

It would be the CHR CPA that would contain any exclusively provisions. Seemingly, based on this announcement they either do not exist or have been or will be waived by CHR.

For those that were not around at the time, this has all of the appearance of GGN round 2. May even be Jazz operated (but AC controlled) Q400’s that are transferred to PAL.

Once again, obvious that AC has developed a mitigation plan to deal with the circumstance where Jazz/CHR cannot meet planned flying levels due to pilot staffing issues.

Jazz is supposed to operate 100% of the 70+ seat flying as per the amendment when sky was absorbed into jazz

Exactly. I suspect the union will push a grievance. And if AC does this, then the terms we absorbed Sky are also in violation.

This reeks of desperation on ACs part, and an attempt to scare us as if it were 20 years ago. They are like children throwing a temper tantrum.

Perhaps now we can finally strike? There are now two violations to the CBA… and more to come…

[BTD]

As I watch all this play out, I keep getting reminded of this quote: "I never saw a wreck and never have been wrecked nor was I ever in any predicament that threatened to end in disaster of any sort." Said by the captain of the Titanic.

Lies…It’s all lies.

Hawke collision


Olympic's first major mishap occurred on her fifth voyage on 20 September 1911, when she collided with the British cruiser HMS Hawke. The collision took place as Olympic and Hawke were running parallel to each other through the Solent. As Olympic turned to starboard, the wide radius of her turn took the commander of Hawke by surprise, and he was unable to take sufficient avoiding action. Hawke's bow, which had been designed to sink ships by ramming them, collided with Olympic's starboard side near the stern, tearing two large holes in Olympic's hull, above and below the waterline, resulting in the flooding of two of her watertight compartments and a twisted propeller shaft. Olympic settled slightly by the stern, but in spite of the damage was able to return to Southampton under her own power; no one was killed or seriously injured. HMS Hawke suffered severe damage to her bow and nearly capsized; she was repaired, but sunk by the German U-boat SM U-9 in October 1914.

Captain Edward Smith was in command of Olympic at the time of the incident. Two crew members, stewardess Violet Jessop and stoker Arthur John Priest, survived not only the collision with Hawke but also the later sinking of Titanic and the 1916 sinking of Britannic, the third ship of the class.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Olym ... _collision

[truedude]

As I watch all this play out, I keep getting reminded of this quote: "I never saw a wreck and never have been wrecked nor was I ever in any predicament that threatened to end in disaster of any sort." Said by the captain of the Titanic.

Lies…It’s all lies.

Hawke collision


Olympic's first major mishap occurred on her fifth voyage on 20 September 1911, when she collided with the British cruiser HMS Hawke. The collision took place as Olympic and Hawke were running parallel to each other through the Solent. As Olympic turned to starboard, the wide radius of her turn took the commander of Hawke by surprise, and he was unable to take sufficient avoiding action. Hawke's bow, which had been designed to sink ships by ramming them, collided with Olympic's starboard side near the stern, tearing two large holes in Olympic's hull, above and below the waterline, resulting in the flooding of two of her watertight compartments and a twisted propeller shaft. Olympic settled slightly by the stern, but in spite of the damage was able to return to Southampton under her own power; no one was killed or seriously injured. HMS Hawke suffered severe damage to her bow and nearly capsized; she was repaired, but sunk by the German U-boat SM U-9 in October 1914.

Captain Edward Smith was in command of Olympic at the time of the incident. Two crew members, stewardess Violet Jessop and stoker Arthur John Priest, survived not only the collision with Hawke but also the later sinking of Titanic and the 1916 sinking of Britannic, the third ship of the class.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Olym ... _collision

The quote was from before that date.

[BTD]

As I watch all this play out, I keep getting reminded of this quote: "I never saw a wreck and never have been wrecked nor was I ever in any predicament that threatened to end in disaster of any sort." Said by the captain of the Titanic.

Lies…It’s all lies.

Hawke collision


Olympic's first major mishap occurred on her fifth voyage on 20 September 1911, when she collided with the British cruiser HMS Hawke. The collision took place as Olympic and Hawke were running parallel to each other through the Solent. As Olympic turned to starboard, the wide radius of her turn took the commander of Hawke by surprise, and he was unable to take sufficient avoiding action. Hawke's bow, which had been designed to sink ships by ramming them, collided with Olympic's starboard side near the stern, tearing two large holes in Olympic's hull, above and below the waterline, resulting in the flooding of two of her watertight compartments and a twisted propeller shaft. Olympic settled slightly by the stern, but in spite of the damage was able to return to Southampton under her own power; no one was killed or seriously injured. HMS Hawke suffered severe damage to her bow and nearly capsized; she was repaired, but sunk by the German U-boat SM U-9 in October 1914.

Captain Edward Smith was in command of Olympic at the time of the incident. Two crew members, stewardess Violet Jessop and stoker Arthur John Priest, survived not only the collision with Hawke but also the later sinking of Titanic and the 1916 sinking of Britannic, the third ship of the class.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Olym ... _collision

The quote was from before that date.

Dang it.

[Fanblade]

Watch people really start to leave now. And they still have to staff these airplanes. Not sure why they would have an easier time of it than us.

Can’t wait to read the statement from the JAZ MEC……

“All is good. Nothing to see here. We are in control”.

Guess what? You are not in control. One only has to wonder what other developments are in the offing. Perhaps this is the “uncertainty” that CB referred to. This is not a good look for a group trapped in a 12 year (remaining) CBA that was sold based on guaranteed AC flow and Express exclusivity. And living with the lowest starting pay rates in the 705 sector.

Wonder what the PAL rates will look like?

Creating a CPA competitor to put a gun to the Jazz pilots heads worked once already.

You don’t think it would cross their minds to try a repeat?

My first comment is time. It takes years to build a replacement CPA carrier. The second is there is a shortage of pilots.

PAL will have similar issues with pilot recruitment if they hope to reach any reasonable size.

I think they are gaming you. Classic AC threatening to give all your flying away during negotiations

[truedude]

Watch people really start to leave now. And they still have to staff these airplanes. Not sure why they would have an easier time of it than us.

Can’t wait to read the statement from the JAZ MEC……

“All is good. Nothing to see here. We are in control”.

Guess what? You are not in control. One only has to wonder what other developments are in the offing. Perhaps this is the “uncertainty” that CB referred to. This is not a good look for a group trapped in a 12 year (remaining) CBA that was sold based on guaranteed AC flow and Express exclusivity. And living with the lowest starting pay rates in the 705 sector.

Wonder what the PAL rates will look like?

Creating a CPA competitor to put a gun to the Jazz pilots heads worked once already.

You don’t think it would cross their minds to try a repeat?

My first comment is time. It takes years to build a replacement CPA carrier. The second is there is a shortage of pilots.

PAL will have similar issues with pilot recruitment if they hope to reach any reasonable size.

I think they are gaming you. Classic AC threatening to give all your flying away during negotiations

It is classic AC. They will likely threaten the 220 flying as well. It is the same playback they have used for decades, with no acknowledgment that the industry is different.

[Inverted2]

Can’t wait to read the statement from the JAZ MEC……

“All is good. Nothing to see here. We are in control”.

Guess what? You are not in control. One only has to wonder what other developments are in the offing. Perhaps this is the “uncertainty” that CB referred to. This is not a good look for a group trapped in a 12 year (remaining) CBA that was sold based on guaranteed AC flow and Express exclusivity. And living with the lowest starting pay rates in the 705 sector.

Wonder what the PAL rates will look like?

Creating a CPA competitor to put a gun to the Jazz pilots heads worked once already.

You don’t think it would cross their minds to try a repeat?

My first comment is time. It takes years to build a replacement CPA carrier. The second is there is a shortage of pilots.

PAL will have similar issues with pilot recruitment if they hope to reach any reasonable size.

I think they are gaming you. Classic AC threatening to give all your flying away during negotiations

It is classic AC. They will likely threaten the 220 flying as well. It is the same playback they have used for decades, with no acknowledgment that the industry is different.

Have to hit back with refusal to do voluntary overtime, follow the contract to a T including MELs. Booking off when fatigued etc. Perhaps some resignations from the training department for good measure too?

[Fanblade]

Can’t wait to read the statement from the JAZ MEC……

“All is good. Nothing to see here. We are in control”.

Guess what? You are not in control. One only has to wonder what other developments are in the offing. Perhaps this is the “uncertainty” that CB referred to. This is not a good look for a group trapped in a 12 year (remaining) CBA that was sold based on guaranteed AC flow and Express exclusivity. And living with the lowest starting pay rates in the 705 sector.

Wonder what the PAL rates will look like?

Creating a CPA competitor to put a gun to the Jazz pilots heads worked once already.

You don’t think it would cross their minds to try a repeat?

My first comment is time. It takes years to build a replacement CPA carrier. The second is there is a shortage of pilots.

PAL will have similar issues with pilot recruitment if they hope to reach any reasonable size.

I think they are gaming you. Classic AC threatening to give all your flying away during negotiations

It is classic AC. They will likely threaten the 220 flying as well. It is the same playback they have used for decades, with no acknowledgment that the industry is different.

It doesn’t matter if the industry is different, so long as your opponent buys into the threat.

Burning platform. Calin loved those. Nothing focuses the mind like a hanging in the morning.

Google burning platform. Basically. A threat produces fear of extinction. People react out of that fear and do things they otherwise wouldn’t.

Management stages a burning platform to get their opponent to concede

[truedude]

Creating a CPA competitor to put a gun to the Jazz pilots heads worked once already.

You don’t think it would cross their minds to try a repeat?

My first comment is time. It takes years to build a replacement CPA carrier. The second is there is a shortage of pilots.

PAL will have similar issues with pilot recruitment if they hope to reach any reasonable size.

I think they are gaming you. Classic AC threatening to give all your flying away during negotiations

It is classic AC. They will likely threaten the 220 flying as well. It is the same playback they have used for decades, with no acknowledgment that the industry is different.

It doesn’t matter if the industry is different, so long as your opponent buys into the threat.

Burning platform. Calin loved those. Nothing focuses the mind like a hanging in the morning.

Google burning platform. Basically. A threat produces fear of extinction. People react out of that fear and do things they otherwise wouldn’t

I'm stocked up on marshmallows, let it burn!

[RoAF-Mig21]

The sad reality is that even those of us who planned on staying here, are now ready to leave. I hung on for a bit of hope... Now I'm actively looking for a new job, be it Porter, Transat, Westjet, Cargojet, AC or abroad. I have the necessary experience to go on to bigger and better things. I think I'm in a pretty good position to go anywhere I want. The only thing stopping me is really where I live, but that's also not a problem. I will sell the house and move if need be.

[rudder]

Chairman's Update - May 30, 2023

Fellow Pilots,

When Jazz and Air Canada amended the CPA in 2021 during the pandemic, Air Canada agreed that “Jazz will be the exclusive capacity provider to Air Canada for aircraft with 70 to 78 seats until December 31, 2025.” (Paragraph 23 a. of the 2021 Term Sheet; Document available on SEDAR by clicking here)

This morning Air Canada announced that they are entering into an arrangement for additional flying capacity with another airline. PAL Airlines separately announced that they have completed a Letter of Intent with Air Canada to operate up to six Q400 aircraft for up to a five-year term. We expect the aircraft will operate on routes within Nova Scotia and Newfoundland & Labrador, although no schedule has yet been announced.

I ended my last message to you with a comment that “as of today the future looks uncertain.” The future looks uncertain because without meaningful wage increases and a defined career progression, we will continue to lose our ability to deliver block hours as Jazz continues to struggle with attraction and retention. Today’s announcement is indicative of that problem.

We believe that a reasonable agreement with Jazz Pilots will reverse this trend and give us the ability to once again provide Air Canada with a stable regional network. Barring this, our future will remain uncertain.

There are many paths forward from this point. We are in the process of determining next steps in response to this action by Air Canada. The MEC is meeting in-person this week and will communicate any developments.

In solidarity,

Claude

[Inverted2]

Claude and the gang sold us on the 17 year contract like it was the best thing since sliced bread.

Said it was job security for those who want to stay and a clear path for those who want to flow to AC. How’s that working out?

[truedude]

Claude and the gang sold us on the 17 year contract like it was the best thing since sliced bread.

Said it was job security for those who want to stay and a clear path for those who want to flow to AC. How’s that working out?

I voted against it, because I knew AC was not to be trusted. But it doesn't matter. It is here, it is the reality, and complaining won't fix anything. And if AC is getting this stupid and risk violating the CPA, it means it is working. Think of them as a 3 yr old throwing a tantrum. That is what we are seeing.

[GIVCE!]

Oh how this company has changed. For the worse. Let it burn.

[truedude]

Oh how this company has changed. For the worse. Let it burn.

And this is what AC and Chorus need to understand. This is how the majority of the pilots feel, and we will not be bullied or scared anymore.

[RoAF-Mig21]

I have to ask some questions:

1. What's the demand for Jazz and its routes this summer (2023) compared to Summer of 2019? Has demand returned to pre-pandemic levels across the Jazz network?

2. Why has capacity and frequency decreased on some domestic routes that Jazz flies?

As an example:

I was looking at options to fly from YYZ to YQG. I know that route very well, because I flew it often both as passenger and as a pilot. Pre-Covid, during the summer months, Jazz flew 5 x daily on a Q400 (390 seats per day).

It later changed it to 9 x daily on the Dash 8-100 (330 seats per day).

It seems that this summer, Jazz only operates 3x daily to Windsor on the Q400, which equates to about 234 seats per day.

Will the introduction /partnering with other airlines (PAL) free up some "much needed Q400s to be used in Ontario / Quebec? Will frequencies to YQG, YXU, YAM, YSB, YYB and YTS change? Will service to YKG ever come back?

[TKTguy]

Yesterday we received an update that flying will be reduced in YXU, YYB and YSB this summer. So doesn't look good.