Truckers convoy

[Impact]

I haven’t. Link? Which charter right has been infringed upon? Also I wasn’t equating the fight for charter rights to fascism I was equating his speech to that of any communist or fascist leader.

Well, they say he's the last living person who had a hand in creating our Constitution, but I could be wrong.

Here, this might explain where he stands on things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M2broiLWDs

[7ECA]

God help us all, the "Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms" is involved. The so-called non-partisan group, that represents only the good god fearing bible thumping conservative types from 'Berta - but while claiming to be non-partisan takes money from right-wing US backers and only pursues cases of a socially conservative nature.

Weren't they they ones who were defending the actions of the tent revival groups that held those illegal and morally questionable events back in 2020 up in Northern Alberta/BC that ended up with hundreds of cases of COVID, and then spread the virus through their communities when the participants returned home?

As for all the nonsense earlier calling me a "lieberal gaslighter", oh gosh you've mortally wounded me and my feelings will never recover from that withering assault.

Once again, it's time you "boys" cracked out your history textbooks, or even a dictionary, and looked up the definition of Fascism. Let me know where Fascism stands on the political spectrum; and then tell me where Communism and Socialism are on said spectrum.

I'll wait.

[Impact]

You're equating fighting for ones Charter Rights as fascistic?

Charter rights were introduced by the Constitution Act, 1982. They are created by statute and exist at the whim of Parliament. If you think your charter rights have been infringed, the only legitimate path to justice is through the courts.

Specifically, section 24(1) of the Constitution Act:

24 (1) Anyone whose rights or freedoms, as guaranteed by this Charter, have been infringed or denied may apply to a court of competent jurisdiction to obtain such remedy as the court considers appropriate and just in the circumstances.

That's all you're entitled to do. Once you go outside the legal system for some kind of remedy or remediation you've indicated your unwillingness to accept the system that grants you those rights in the first place and can no longer claim them.

And that seems to be exactly what Mr Peckford is doing. It'll be interesting to see if a Judge tries to tell one of the actual authors of said Constitution, what the intent was when drafted. Let the high level legal games begin.

[photofly]

And that seems to be exactly what Mr Peckford is doing. It'll be interesting to see if a Judge tries to tell one of the actual authors of said Constitution, what the intent was when drafted. Let the high level legal games begin.

Credit to him for doing so.

The court's belief of the drafters' intent isn't necessarily what's taken in to account in statutory interpretation. There are a bunch of very interesting scholarly legal articles on statutory interpretation in Canada, and I agree the outcome will be interesting, if the court considers the matter.

[Bingo Fuel]

Admissibility of Section 1 of the Charter is determined using the Oakes test:

1. There must be a pressing and substantial objective
2. The means must be proportional
a. The means must be rationally connected to the objective
b. There must be minimal impairment of rights
c. There must be proportionality between the infringement and objective

I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.

To date, I am not aware of any successful court challenge to any COVID mandate in Canada.

[Impact]

7ECA,

It's starting to get hilarious. So far, you pro-mandate people have called the Truckers fascists, Confederates, communists, anarchists, violent thugs, pretty much anything and everything in the book. Nothing has stuck, despite the onslaught of the MSM and the entire Federal, Provincial, and Municiple governments direct action. These Truckers must have used Rain-X, because nothing seems to be sticking.

We'll see how long this'll go on for, but until then, I hear they set up another bouncy castle at the Coutts blockade, and the kids are having a great time. Need to verify that on the live stream, then it's time to watch some football.

[pelmet]

One has to wonder if this video is the next step...

https://twitter.com/Gray_Mackenzie/stat ... -1.5779659

And then what would happen after that.....peaceful democracy loving counter-protester's paring cars at the end of the driveways of protestors. Hey....free speech.

I wonder why someone is taking pictures of the license plate and occupants? For future counter-protest use?

[7ECA]

So far, you pro-mandate people have called the Truckers fascists, Confederates, communists, anarchists, violent thugs, pretty much anything and everything in the book.

Fascists, yes, many certainly are. Confederates, debatable. Communists, not at all (they'd have to be left-wingers then, remember). Anarchists, possibly. Thugs, definitely - what else do you call people whom engage in disturbances in residential neighbourhoods for a week or more, defecate on the War Memorial, etc.?

As for Coutts, one good thing about that blockade is that with all the economic damage it's doing to the Alberta economy, the province will get an even bigger equalization payment than it usually gets (and yes, Alberta does benefit most years from the equalization payments). Sure, Coutts isn't causing quite as large an impact on the overall economy as the Windsor blockade was (roughly $350 Million dollars in trade a day), but Coutts is causing all kinds of issues for agricultural producers and Alberta in general. What's that saying about biting the hand that feeds you, again?

As for your contention that I am pro mandate; I'd suggest we absolutely need some form of government intervention in healthcare related decisions, when a portion of the population seems to be absolutely dead set on making their own choices based off of little more than blind adherence to "faith" that they will be protected from a novel virus by their immune system - with no sense of the irony of that decision at all.

My personal feelings on vaccination is that vaccination is effective at preventing severe illness and has some efficacy in preventing infection and spread. Masking is debatable, depending on the quality of mask worn; but it does have the ability to prevent to some degree the spread of aerosolized droplets when individuals exhale or cough/sneeze. I don't see this as an "all or nothing" decision, like a number of the dogmatic posters here by any means.

Sure, consider your own personal risk and the risk of those around you - but don't be surprised if people want nothing to do with you if they feel as though you are risking their own health and safety. As someone whom has a number of elderly or immunocompromised individuals in my social circle, wearing a mask and being vaccinated is the least I can do.

[pelmet]

So far, you pro-mandate people have called the Truckers fascists, Confederates, communists, anarchists, violent thugs, pretty much anything and everything in the book.

Fascists, yes, many certainly are. Confederates, debatable. Communists, not at all (they'd have to be left-wingers then, remember).

Give it up. Whether they are one group or another is irrelevant. What is relevant is not allowing this type of behavior from any one of these groups or any other group.

[7ECA]

Give it up. Whether they are one group or another is irrelevant. What is relevant is not allowing this type of behavior from any one of these groups or any other group.

Oh no, it's definitely relevant, in the sense that it shows how different the response from law enforcement is depending on which part of the political spectrum the "protestors" are from.

I do agree, though, that these protests never should have been allowed to degenerate into what they have. It's little more than an absolute failure at multiple levels, to ever have allowed the occupation of a city centre or the blockade of multiple border crossings.

[pelmet]

Give it up. Whether they are one group or another is irrelevant. What is relevant is not allowing this type of behavior from any one of these groups or any other group.

Oh no, it's definitely relevant, in the sense that it shows how different the response from law enforcement is depending on which part of the political spectrum the "protestors" are from.

Except that each side of the political spectrum says the same thing.

So....arrest them all. Otherwise, people feel they have to take things into their own hands.

[rookiepilot]

Oh no, it's definitely relevant, in the sense that it shows how different the response from law enforcement is depending on which part of the political spectrum the "protestors" are from.

Ah. Now you’re slagging the police, cause they aren’t acting like Singh’s personal storm troopers.

Oh, might have something to do with one group is respectful, talks to the police this way, and another is abusive, name calling, swearing at the cops.

The police here are complete professionals. I take their word for it which group is which, not politicians or the media who are serial liars, and that the police response is totally appropriate. One group is peaceful, the other inclined to violence.

There was much more violence from leftist anarchists in one night, during a highly organized pre planned riot, after the Canucks lost the Stanley Cup in Vancouver, then we’ve seen in Ottawa in weeks.

That one was sad to see. Not a word from the Liberals then. Trudeau probably said “understandable” , like when dozens of churches were burned and damaged. In fact, the media incited the violence— according to the Vancouver police back then.

As they are trying to do again, today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPzBqY5_UVU

At least 140 people were injured during the incident, including 1 critically.[1][3] At least 4 people were stabbed, 9 police officers were injured, and 101 people were arrested.[6][7]
Four years after the riot, police finished their investigation and recommended the final charges against two suspects, bringing the total to 887 charges against 301 people.

5 million in damages.

The CBC was sympathetic to the rioters, trying to explain it as an emotional reaction to losing a hockey game.

But their hatred for bouncy castles in Ottawa is evident.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/vancouve ... -1.1087616

[Aviatard]

Maybe you should have a look. You may find you are walking with the wrong crowd.

Perhaps the tard isn’t just with respect to a aviation, it may extend to other aspects of your abilities.
Just trying to help, you know.

Didn't like the answer (Buddy being caught pants down spreading false info) So revert to personal attack.

Top class right there!

Which false info was that?

When you post:
- images with Nazi symbols and calling for people to be gassed
- where you post only one frame of a video to hide the fact that it also contains American flags and AOC and is clearly American and not Canadian
- images with a Canadian flag in what looks like Ottawa
- in a topic about the convoy
- where other are posting about counter protesters in Ottawa

What are you doing? Making an honest mistake? Finger slipped? I don’t think so. No, you’re attempting to mislead people into thinking the Ottawa counter protesters are awful people and are the ones who carried that sign. That’s the false info.

[7ECA]

So....arrest them all. Otherwise, people feel they have to take things into their own hands.

Exactly, arrest the lot of them. The protestors in Ottawa are variously violating an injunction or the Provincial State of Emergency, along with various bylaws, etc. The people blocking border crossings are doing so illegally.

And yet, kid gloves; slow processions of police moving them back a few feet at a time - until the protesters dig in and refused to comply. According to the RCMP at the Pacific Highway Crossing there were only four arrests, and yet 100+ people refused to leave.

Oh, might have something to do with one group is respectful, talks to the police this way, and another is abusive, name calling, swearing at the cops.

That's laughable; maybe we need to bring back that video of the old guy getting arrested after violating the injunction, and then failing to comply with producing his licence and registration - all the while screaming and telling the cop to @#$! off, that he was a commie stooge, etc. Oh, and then there were the multiple people egging the old guy on, screaming at the cop(s) and filming the whole thing claiming that this was communist tyranny.

As for the 2011 riot, that's Canucks fans for you; they're the worst losers ever. That riot was hardly stirred up by the media, it had been planned for days - ever since the Canucks ran up a 3-0 series lead and then started losing; people had said they'd riot if they lost. Funny how you're calling the rioters leftist anarchists, at the time Premier Clark was calling them degenerates from Surrey whom came to Vancouver to cause trouble. I guess the story has changed over time, rather than just admitting they were a bunch of drunken degenerates from all across the Lower Mainland who came to party and riot, if need be. As for anarchists, you're right the VPD tried to say that it was instigated by them; but as was pointed out by sociologists and others, there was absolutely not evidence for that claim by Chief Chu beyond the standard scapegoating of "anarchists" in an attempt to take the focus away from policing failures at the time.

Also, I could care less what the Liberals had to say after the riot (unless you're talking about Christy Clark, because she was the Premier at the time), especially since a Federal Election took place in May of 2011 in which Stephen Harper and the Conservative Party won a majority. So, if anyone should have been commenting, it was Harper - not Ignatieff. But, it is convenient that you ignore that critical fact.

[rookiepilot]

As for the 2011 riot, that's Canucks fans for you; they're the worst losers ever.

Pretty much how the media justified it at the time….violence was “totally understandable”, “nothing to see here”.

Right.

And the Toronto G20…never mind that. The media totally coddled the anarchism while non stop slamming the police for alleged brutality…….

[7ECA]

Pretty much how the media justified it at the time….violence was “totally understandable”, “nothing to see here”.

I don't recall hearing that, although there has been a decade since then and frankly it's not something I feel is worth rehashing. Canucks fans are piss poor losers, and shitheads, they were going to riot win or lose.

Care to comment about your condemnation of Trudeau for his lack of comment, when he wasn't the leader of the Federal Liberals at the time; in addition to Harper being Prime Minister?

[‘Bob’]

“And the Toronto G20…never mind that. The media totally coddled the anarchism while non stop slamming the police for alleged brutality……. “


“Alleged”

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ice-canada

You can call “fake news media” all you want.. but even they can’t conjure up riot gear, tear gas, rubber bullets, and mass detentions, and ensuing multimillion dollar settlements—all completely absent from this watershed event where you say “we are losing the right to protest”.

[rookiepilot]

Travisdhanraj's avatar
Travis Dhanraj
@Travisdhanraj
#BREAKING: @JustinTrudeau has called late night cabinet meeting happening right now #Cdnpoli

“HAD ENOUGH OF BEING PM. NOT FUN ANYMORE. A PRIVATE SCHOOL IN VANCOUVER HAS OFFERED ME A JOB IN THE DRAMA DEPARTMENT”.

[rookiepilot]

“And the Toronto G20…never mind that. The media totally coddled the anarchism while non stop slamming the police for alleged brutality……. “


“Alleged”

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ice-canada

You can call “fake news media” all you want.. but even they can’t conjure up riot gear, tear gas, rubber bullets, and mass detentions, and ensuing multimillion dollar settlements—all completely absent from this watershed event where you say “we are losing the right to protest”.

So….the bottom line.

Police in Toronto…….thugs, while responding to a violent, well armed protest.

Police in Ottawa…….incompetent kiddy gloves treatment of peaceful protest by families….


No media bias there.

[geodoc]

Which false info was that?

When you post:
- images with Nazi symbols and calling for people to be gassed
- where you post only one frame of a video to hide the fact that it also contains American flags and AOC and is clearly American and not Canadian
- images with a Canadian flag in what looks like Ottawa
- in a topic about the convoy
- where other are posting about counter protesters in Ottawa

What are you doing? Making an honest mistake? Finger slipped? I don’t think so. No, you’re attempting to mislead people into thinking the Ottawa counter protesters are awful people and are the ones who carried that sign. That’s the false info.

Reading comprehension fellas.
He said he didn’t want to look any further. I suggested he should look further. I guess he didn’t like what he was seeing.

Out and out defense of communism. Yup. That’s some top class right there. Hey. Here’s an idea. If communism is your brand. Lead by example. Pack your bags and off you go. There’s a few awesome super socialist places for you guys to go live.

Communism (as in actual Communism rather than Communism as a "snarl word"):

What it is: Have we read our copies of Marx and Engels, comrades? Communism is the socioeconomic system that eventually replaces socialism.

When? Who knows.

The state “withers away,” the division of labor is undone, and all resources are held in common by all people. Governments and wars are things of the past. Allocations of goods are done by common assent about need and ability. (How? Who knows.)

What it isn’t: A form of government that has ever existed.

Also: It is not “anything you don’t happen to like.”

Yes, I know, there’s a lot to argue with here, but these basics should remind us that “governments that trade with Canada” are not necessarily democracies, and that the guy proposing a higher capital-gains tax is not necessarily a socialist. More importantly, precision helps you to frame responses. If everything you don’t like is fascism or socialism, if you think democracy is always getting your way, then you will think every democracy is a failure—or worse.

(paraphrased from here: https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/pea ... socialism/)

Also:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Loaded_la ... narl_words

.

[pelmet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgJg5r_4vSY

How well do those water thingy's work at -20.

[geodoc]

Reading comprehension fellas.
He said he didn’t want to look any further. I suggested he should look further. I guess he didn’t like what he was seeing.

Out and out defense of communism. Yup. That’s some top class right there. Hey. Here’s an idea. If communism is your brand. Lead by example. Pack your bags and off you go. There’s a few awesome super socialist places for you guys to go live.

Communism (as in actual Communism rather than Communism as a "snarl word"):

What it is: Have we read our copies of Marx and Engels, comrades? Communism is the socioeconomic system that eventually replaces socialism.

When? Who knows.

The state “withers away,” the division of labor is undone, and all resources are held in common by all people. Governments and wars are things of the past. Allocations of goods are done by common assent about need and ability. (How? Who knows.)

What it isn’t: A form of government that has ever existed.

Also: It is not “anything you don’t happen to like.”

Yes, I know, there’s a lot to argue with here, but these basics should remind us that “governments that trade with Canada” are not necessarily democracies, and that the guy proposing a higher capital-gains tax is not necessarily a socialist. More importantly, precision helps you to frame responses. If everything you don’t like is fascism or socialism, if you think democracy is always getting your way, then you will think every democracy is a failure—or worse.

(paraphrased from here:


Also:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Loaded_la ... narl_words

.

Cool story,

Now do one about National Socialism and how great it is.

National Socialism as a system of government or as a snarl word?

National Socialism, as instituted in Germany 1933-1945 was an iteration of Totalitarianism. Refer to the Atlantic article.

.

[TG]

Which false info was that?

When you post:
- images with Nazi symbols and calling for people to be gassed
- where you post only one frame of a video to hide the fact that it also contains American flags and AOC and is clearly American and not Canadian
- images with a Canadian flag in what looks like Ottawa
- in a topic about the convoy
- where other are posting about counter protesters in Ottawa

What are you doing? Making an honest mistake? Finger slipped? I don’t think so. No, you’re attempting to mislead people into thinking the Ottawa counter protesters are awful people and are the ones who carried that sign. That’s the false info.

Reading comprehension fellas.
He said he didn’t want to look any further. I suggested he should look further. I guess he didn’t like what he was seeing.

Out and out defense of communism. Yup. That’s some top class right there. Hey. Here’s an idea. If communism is your brand. Lead by example. Pack your bags and off you go. There’s a few awesome super socialist places for you guys to go live.

“Reading comprehension” Quite the oxymoron coming from a denier



Thanks for the entertainment….

[TG]

Denying what?

You perfectly know what you hypocrite
A Denier is in this dumb Covid subforum the exact opposite of what you bunch call pandemicist or something.

[TG]

Denying what?

You perfectly know what you hypocrite
A Denier is in this dumb Covid subforum the exact opposite of what you bunch call pandemicist or something.

Hypocrite. Interesting. That’s your new Nazi, or literally Hitler, or racist, or misogynist blah blah blah.

Whatever, COVID is over. The arguments don’t need to be had anymore. Nobody was correct. Neither the pandemicists nor the the actual anti-vaxxers.

Mods. Close the COVID thread and create a new one: Liberty vs Tyranny. We can there discuss the current state of parliamentary democracy in Canada.

Oh ok... Nazi now, holly crap! Anything to try to prove a point eh!?
And not sure where you got this idea that nobody was right. One side was not perfect for sure, the other Totally out of whack with their Clownish conspiracy sh!t.

So, be a little more patient FOD

Like in an aircraft some people have to run a check list to see if things are OK before releasing brakes.



And then, only then you bunch of deniers will be able to enjoy this false sense of Victory while the rest (Me included) Will enjoy hopefully finally being done.