So after (somehow) magically scoring interviews with both Jazz and Encore (next week!) I'm having a hard time deciding which one to go with (if they both offer me a job, that is). Looking for actual, valuable input to help me with decision making.

No coin flipping.
No uncalled for bashing, please.
Facts only.

Please and thank you!

Good luck with you interviews and whomever you chose should you get a choice.

Pretty easy decision if given the choice. Encore has progression to the left seat and movement to the mainline carrier. Good stable company to get in with.

Jazz does not have progression to the left seat within 5 years (at best). Jazz does not have progression to mainline. Although jazz is a great place to get experience and move on to bigger and better things if desired.

It all depends on where you want to end up. If you want to be at WJ go to Encore. If you want AC than go to Jazz. There may yet be an official flow through to Air Canada but we have lost a lot of guys to AC and I'd hazard a guess WAY more than Encore has lost to Westjet, if any.

You will work MORE for LESS money at Encore BUT your progression to the left seat will be MUCH quicker. You will still work more days at Encore than Jazz and if I'm not mistaken our working conditions are far superior.

In the end you take the job that is offered OR you aim for the one that takes you to your end game.

I would go to encore, given the choice. I think you'll likely find the atmosphere more positive as it's a fast growing upstart. As previously mentioned, you could expect some rapid advancement opportunities. Jazz on the other hand faces some longer term challenges as the multiple feed strategy matures with Air Canada. Don't get me wrong, Jazz would still be a good gig...but to me it's more of a back up choice. (This is all quite subjective) I would view the regionals as a stepping stone anyway.

If you want to get to Air Canada I think Encore or Jazz are both good outfits to be at. If you want to get to WJ, Encore is the way to go, albeit it'll be a long wait to flow over, at the current 25% rate.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. I guess the left seat upgrade is quicker at Encore but what would be a good estimate of flowing through to WJ at the present 25% rate?

dresspants wrote:That's an interesting way of looking at it. I guess the left seat upgrade is quicker at Encore but what would be a good estimate of flowing through to WJ at the present 25% rate?

5 years is an eternity in Canadian aviation and a lot can happen in that time frame, but ~5+ years for anyone getting hired now if flow remains at 25%.

Jazz has good pay, benefits, pension and perdiems. Encore not so much. Nobody knows what the future holds at Jazz. It's kinda "Up in the air" right now but it is a good place to be. Yes the upgrade times are very long but that can all change. Who knows.

indieadventurer wrote: 5 years is an eternity in Canadian aviation and a lot can happen in that time frame, but ~5+ years for anyone getting hired now if flow remains at 25%.

That much? Wow. I'd have thought it would be no more than 2-3, especially with their widebody expansion. Interesting. Their briefing package only shows pay scales up to 4 years because I guess they don't expect anyone to be there longer :p

dresspants wrote:That's an interesting way of looking at it. I guess the left seat upgrade is quicker at Encore but what would be a good estimate of flowing through to WJ at the present 25% rate?

I believe that we are just under 200 pilots on the property at Encore now. Maybe a little over 10 have moved up to the major leagues. If WestJet hires 100 next year (projected hiring, last I heard - including hiring for people moving to the wide body aircraft), they'll take 25 people from Encore and move them up. That's it, that's all. WestJet has no commitment to increase the flow whatsoever. The WJPA would like to but it hasn't happened yet. At the current rate, someone sitting at #200 will have to wait 8 years to flow up. Simple math.

You will spend the majority of that time at Encore in the left seat. The current pay scale doesn't go out that far. I am guessing cost of living increases after year four, but that bridge will have to be crossed when it is arrived at.

Will Jazz be around in 8 years? Probably not in it's current form. I believe the current wait to get into the left seat there is around the 8 year mark. You will work about 4 days less (as a minimum) for 10% more money initially.

dresspants wrote:

indieadventurer wrote: 5 years is an eternity in Canadian aviation and a lot can happen in that time frame, but ~5+ years for anyone getting hired now if flow remains at 25%.

That much? Wow. I'd have thought it would be no more than 2-3, especially with their widebody expansion. Interesting. Their briefing package only shows pay scales up to 4 years because I guess they don't expect anyone to be there longer :p

Or don't wanna pay more than year 4 wages. At 25% with no guarantie of a WJ mainline job even Encore is a gamble. We are at Jazz losing folks on a monthly basis to AC. 8 just left this week with more scheduled to go. Word is a new hire course a month is planned for 2015.

In my opinion it'll be tough to expand Encore if guys keep moving up to WJ mainline.

At Encore we are also picking up loads of Jazz folks. Yes the flow through is only 25% at the moment, yes the pay is not as much as Jazz, but almost on a weekly basis there are improvements being made on many fronts. The WJPA should be starting on our contract shortly if and when the WJ TA is voted through. There is quite a bit of fear of Encore guys leaving for AC, so I expect to see some positive stuff in our future contract. Nothing is guaranteed, but so far the folks at WJE have been rewarded for the risk they have taken coming here.

WJE is still new and growing, and frankly the only way we can go is up from here. My only regret is not coming over sooner.

I'd say the fastest way to AC is Encore. They will soon start poaching Encore pilots like WJ did to Jazz.

dresspants wrote:So after (somehow) magically scoring interviews with both Jazz and Encore (next week!) I'm having a hard time deciding which one to go with (if they both offer me a job, that is). Looking for actual, valuable input to help me with decision making.

If you are fortunate enough to have a choice - take the company that is the best "fit" for you. Make a list of everything that is important to you and see which company ticks the most boxes.

We are all different - what is important to one person may not be important to another.

Make sure you ask questions at your interview. At one interview I had a list of questions that I wrote down and when the time came I pulled out the list. It made a very good impression on the interviewers.

What people forget is that an interview is a two-way process - you are also interviewing them.

I always answer questions honestly rather than trying to tell people what I think they want to hear. Not everyone will agree with this but this has worked very well for me over the years.

If you find yourself in the position where you have to turn down an offer of employment - be tactful. Try to keep the door open - you never know how things will turn out.

Hope this helps - break a leg!

I agree with Eric,

no matter what someone tells you, it's up to you to make the choice that best suits you.

Definitively go to both interviews and ask same questions. Then if you are lucky to get both job offers - decide! Good luck!

teacher wrote:At 25% with no guarantie of a WJ mainline job even Encore is a gamble.

You are guaranteed a job at WestJet Mainline. You might have to wait 8 years, more if you're number #300 on the seniority list, but you do have a guarantee to get there eventually.

teacher wrote:We are at Jazz losing folks on a monthly basis to AC. 8 just left this week with more scheduled to go.

As I said, just over 10 people have flowed up to WestJet mainline since the spring time.

You are guaranteed a job at WestJet Mainline. You might have to wait 8 years, more if you're number #300 on the seniority list, but you do have a guarantee to get there eventually.

That's actually really good to hear for those at Encore. I was under the impression that the only guarantee was that 1 in 4 would flow. So there is no interview for Mainline? just get hired by Encore and wait your turn? Were the guys that flowed through number 1-10 on the list? Can you pass on the flow through and move up on the next batch?

Go with Jazz...you'll probably get to mainline WJ quicker...

A friend tells me the last WJ mainline GS had only 3 encore guys.. So not everyone's coming through the bottom end and surely you could get direct WJ one day from the 75% quota (as of now.)

teacher wrote:So there is no interview for Mainline? just get hired by Encore and wait your turn? Were the guys that flowed through number 1-10 on the list? Can you pass on the flow through and move up on the next batch?

No interview for mainline, wait for your # to come up and you move over. So yeah, we've lost the first 10 or so that were here when Encore started. Some have passed on it for various reasons and in that case the guy/gal below them gets the option to go.

razorblade wrote:A friend tells me the last WJ mainline GS had only 3 encore guys.. So not everyone's coming through the bottom end and surely you could get direct WJ one day from the 75% quota (as of now.)

I think it was only 2 guys from Encore in the last gs. Flow's at 25% at the moment and WJ usually runs a gs of 8. So definitely, direct WJ is still a thing and probably will be for some time to come. Only downside is you're behind 200+ Encore pilots in seniority.

indieadventurer wrote:I think it was only 2 guys from Encore in the last gs.

I hadn't heard any different.

Johnny#5 wrote:Go with Jazz...you'll probably get to mainline WJ quicker...

There may be some truth to this statement. Even the guy at #100 will have to wait four years to flow up. Four years at Jazz and you'd be looking pretty competitive to go direct to mainline Air Canada or mainline WestJet.

It seems like a no brainer to me. You go to Encore and wait for AC to call. If AC pfo's you (which there is a very good chance of) then you are still guaranteed mainline eventually. If you take Jazz and then get pfo'd by AC then where are you? Damm, had to disconnect the VPN to post this.

I think everyone has forgot about the one list at Encore. Even if it does take 8 years to move to mainline all that time on the seniority list counts toward base selection and, more importantly upgrade on the 37. Encore wins by a long shot.