Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Discuss topics relating to airlines.

Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako

MartinB
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:39 am

Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by MartinB »

http://worldairlinenews.com/2014/12/15/ ... 37-max-7s/
Jetlines (Vancouver) and Boeing (Chicago, Seattle and Charleston) today announced an order for five 737 MAX 7s as the new Canadian ultra-low cost carrier builds its future fleet. The order, valued at $438 million at current list prices, includes purchase rights for an additional 16 737 MAXs.

The new airline plans to tap into passenger demand by offering low cost airfares on routes that avoid direct competition with other airlines.

The 737 MAX 7 will be capable of flying more than 3,800 nautical miles, extending the range over today’s 737-700 by approximately 400 nautical miles (741km).

With this order, the 737 MAX has orders for 2,562 airplanes from 55 customers worldwide.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Old fella
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2488
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:04 am
Location: I'm retired. I don't want to'I don't have to and you can't make me.

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by Old fella »

Globe has a different slant on it............

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... e22083410/
---------- ADS -----------
 
delta1
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by delta1 »

MartinB wrote:http://worldairlinenews.com/2014/12/15/ ... 37-max-7s/

The new airline plans to tap into passenger demand by offering low cost airfares on routes that avoid direct competition with other airlines.


And which routes in Canada would avoid direct competition with other airlines by flying 737's???????
---------- ADS -----------
 
Diadem
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 911
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: A sigma left of the top of the bell curve

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by Diadem »

delta1 wrote:And which routes in Canada would avoid direct competition with other airlines by flying 737's???????
Resolute to Grise Fiord.
---------- ADS -----------
 
M. Essaie
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:48 am

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by M. Essaie »

Anyone know how recruiting is being handled? The links on their webpage are rather sparse.
---------- ADS -----------
 
pelmet
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7718
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by pelmet »

Diadem wrote:
delta1 wrote:And which routes in Canada would avoid direct competition with other airlines by flying 737's???????
Resolute to Grise Fiord.
Flown that route. Borek has it all wrapped up.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Diadem
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 911
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: A sigma left of the top of the bell curve

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by Diadem »

pelmet wrote:
Diadem wrote:
delta1 wrote:And which routes in Canada would avoid direct competition with other airlines by flying 737's???????
Resolute to Grise Fiord.
Flown that route. Borek has it all wrapped up.
But not on a 737! Maybe they could make it an "Ellesmere run" and head up to Eureka and Alert too. I should start consulting for Canada Jetlines and take an exorbitant fee in exchange for my clearly brilliant strategizing.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Legacy
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:05 pm

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by Legacy »

Lowballers get your resume ready!
---------- ADS -----------
 
TheStig
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 871
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:34 pm

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by TheStig »

So what do you think is more likely; Porter flying C Series out of YTZ or "Canada Jetlines" being around to take delivery of these jets. I wonder how much of a deposit Boeing made them place on the order?
---------- ADS -----------
 
loopa
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:57 am

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by loopa »

whatever happened to the 737-400 rumors ? :rolleyes:

Isn't there also another ulc start up in yyc Jetnaked? This is going to be interesting times. I heard the people who started up Spirit airlines down south are behind the works with Tim Morgan for Jet Naked...

I wonder how close the salaries will be to this... http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... t_airlines
---------- ADS -----------
 
Old fella
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2488
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:04 am
Location: I'm retired. I don't want to'I don't have to and you can't make me.

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by Old fella »

Flown that route. Borek has it all wrapped up.[/quote]
But not on a 737! Maybe they could make it an "Ellesmere run" and head up to Eureka and Alert too. I should start consulting for Canada Jetlines and take an exorbitant fee in exchange for my clearly brilliant strategizing.[/quote]


I bet your strategy is probably a lot better than theirs. Lets see, starting off next year(2015) with "It plans to start operations next year with leased Boeing 737 planes and increase the size of its fleet to eight planes by 2016 if demand warrants". So an increase to 6 more a/c within a year, that's a hell of a lot extra routes and arses required to fill the seats - lots of traffic up Eureka and Alert way, you figure. Be very interesting to see what the flight crew pay will be and HOW MUCH one will have to pay initially for their training on this start-up with two leased aircraft.

:roll: :rolleyes:
---------- ADS -----------
 
Legacy
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:05 pm

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by Legacy »

loopa wrote:whatever happened to the 737-400 rumors ? :rolleyes:

Isn't there also another ulc start up in yyc Jetnaked? This is going to be interesting times. I heard the people who started up Spirit airlines down south are behind the works with Tim Morgan for Jet Naked...

I wonder how close the salaries will be to this... http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... t_airlines
If it was, the pathetic thing is their would be guys that take it.
---------- ADS -----------
 
loopa
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:57 am

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by loopa »

Besides first year pay the salaries at Spirit don't seem too shabby, but I don't know nearly enough about the ULC environment. All I keep hearing is that it's bad, poor wages, etc. Just interesting that Spirit is a ULC and paying relatively good wages... :?: I don't think people like flying on them though, but can't really complain much if they are paying what they pay to fly on them.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Legacy
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:05 pm

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by Legacy »

loopa wrote:Besides first year pay the salaries at Spirit don't seem too shabby, but I don't know nearly enough about the ULC environment. All I keep hearing is that it's bad, poor wages, etc. Just interesting that Spirit is a ULC and paying relatively good wages... :?: I don't think people like flying on them though, but can't really complain much if they are paying what they pay to fly on them.
I REALLY hope you are being sarcastic. Otherwise you are one of the guys willing to lower the bar. 91,000 a year for starting captain is a joke.
---------- ADS -----------
 
airspeed250
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 8:07 pm

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by airspeed250 »

Legacy wrote:
loopa wrote:Besides first year pay the salaries at Spirit don't seem too shabby, but I don't know nearly enough about the ULC environment. All I keep hearing is that it's bad, poor wages, etc. Just interesting that Spirit is a ULC and paying relatively good wages... :?: I don't think people like flying on them though, but can't really complain much if they are paying what they pay to fly on them.
I REALLY hope you are being sarcastic. Otherwise you are one of the guys willing to lower the bar. 91,000 a year for starting captain is a joke.
Depends on your situation in life. A guy like me, mid 30's, no kids, no debt, 90K is very easy to live a good life. I don't need a vacation property, two cars, eating out every other night, the latest apple products, etc. The majority of Canadians make much less than 90k, even with university education and work experience.
---------- ADS -----------
 
mbav8r
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:11 am
Location: Manitoba

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by mbav8r »

Canada Jetlines said in a prospectus for the IPO that $13-million (Canadian) of the $50-million it is trying to raise through the IPO will be spent as a down payment on the new planes.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Legacy
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:05 pm

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by Legacy »

airspeed250 wrote:
Legacy wrote:
loopa wrote:Besides first year pay the salaries at Spirit don't seem too shabby, but I don't know nearly enough about the ULC environment. All I keep hearing is that it's bad, poor wages, etc. Just interesting that Spirit is a ULC and paying relatively good wages... :?: I don't think people like flying on them though, but can't really complain much if they are paying what they pay to fly on them.
I REALLY hope you are being sarcastic. Otherwise you are one of the guys willing to lower the bar. 91,000 a year for starting captain is a joke.
Depends on your situation in life. A guy like me, mid 30's, no kids, no debt, 90K is very easy to live a good life. I don't need a vacation property, two cars, eating out every other night, the latest apple products, etc. The majority of Canadians make much less than 90k, even with university education and work experience.
Regardless, you would be one of the ones responsible for lowering the bar. People before you have worked and negotiated hard to raise the working conditions in this country (and we are still behind). You would be ruining that effort but accepting sh.t wages like that. Can't always think about yourself in this industry.
---------- ADS -----------
 
davecessna
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:52 am

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by davecessna »

TheStig wrote:So what do you think is more likely; Porter flying C Series out of YTZ or "Canada Jetlines" being around to take delivery of these jets. I wonder how much of a deposit Boeing made them place on the order?
Sure, when they learn to not drive the Dash8's into the lake. :lol:
---------- ADS -----------
 
GRK
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:57 am
Location: not where I want to be...

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by GRK »

Airspeed250:

Surely you can't be serious (!) If you think that's a decent wage for that type of work, then do us all a favour and stay away from the business…it's not enough by a TON! More is always better of course, ( try to think like a pilot who works for a living here please…) and a future is what the rest of us are looking at, not what you might accept today. I can't help but think that pilots like you are completely blind to what this business is turning into, with such shortsighted thinking! No wonder owners and operators rub their hands in glee when those types of idiotic and ill thought out ideas surface. Wake the hell up and get into the game…what 's left for the next bunch of pilots with your "I'm OK Jack!" moronic view of a future? There are many who have worked hard to leave this industry in better shape than when they found it, and they cringe when fools like you pipe up with such drool…The list of things you claim you don't want or need is actually not unreasonable…lots of families need two cars and a place to enjoy. Owning property is a really good way to build wealth and relax and enjoy the fruits of ones labour, and enjoy the good times with family and friends. Why find fault with those who aspire to such things? In addition, what about what a guy might need later in life? With pensions shrinking, the CPP running low on funds, the world economy in a precarious state, you'll need some cash to live on when you retire! (and you will want to someday) So try to think like an adult here and help with that old saw of "leaving the place better than when you found it?" Thanks…you future depends on it.
---------- ADS -----------
 
fish4life
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2530
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:32 am

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by fish4life »

To be fair if you compare spirit to WJ's pay scale and throw on the currency exchange in year 2 a spirit CPT is making only $3/ credit less than a WJ CPT and when they both top out a Spirit CPT is making $5/ credit more. This was all done with an assumed CND $ of 0.86. So before people start complaining maybe they should look a little closer at it, personally for a true quality of life your probably better off making $120000/yr in the US than $160000/yr in Canada.
---------- ADS -----------
 
TheStig
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 871
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:34 pm

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by TheStig »

We (pilots) really need to wrap our heads around the fact that our salaries are not going to make or break an airline.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Legacy
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:05 pm

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by Legacy »

TheStig wrote:We (pilots) really need to wrap our heads around the fact that our salaries are not going to make or break an airline.
Of course not. But they have the advantage of being able to get the media to listen to what they say at the snap of their fingers. In doing so, they can blame the greedy employees for being the failure of the company when truth is it is the CEOs piss poor decisions that drove it to bankruptcy. The salaries are just a scape goat.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Old fella
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2488
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:04 am
Location: I'm retired. I don't want to'I don't have to and you can't make me.

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by Old fella »

This whole proposed start-up seems to be odd as I see it. What do they (Canadian Jetlines) know that the bright people at WJ (Encore) and AC (Express) don't know when it comes to serving those smaller centers when this new upstart will utilize B737 or A320 types? The fares are certainly gonna have to be competitive which means the salaries are going to be in the same league as Encore et al. Probably the reason the new competitor will start out with a couple of leased aircraft to “test” their business model. Prospective employees will, no doubt be asked/required to anti up for the privilege to see how it is gonna go. I will bet my next pension cheque this new airline will never exercise options for the B737 Max, sixteen of’em if I read it correctly. I hope to Christ the younger guys/gals whose dream is to fly fast movers don’t get burned in the process. It has happened before, sadly.

:?
---------- ADS -----------
 
loopa
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:57 am

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by loopa »

Legacy wrote:
loopa wrote:Besides first year pay the salaries at Spirit don't seem too shabby, but I don't know nearly enough about the ULC environment. All I keep hearing is that it's bad, poor wages, etc. Just interesting that Spirit is a ULC and paying relatively good wages... :?: I don't think people like flying on them though, but can't really complain much if they are paying what they pay to fly on them.
I REALLY hope you are being sarcastic. Otherwise you are one of the guys willing to lower the bar. 91,000 a year for starting captain is a joke.
2nd year F/O = 72,092 CAD/yr
3rd year F/O = 78,100 CAD/yr
4th year F/O = 84,108 CAD/yr
5th year F/O = 90,116 CAD/yr
6th year F/O = 95,112 CAD/yr
12th year F/O = 109,244 CAD/yr
15th year F/O = 109,244 CAD/yr
UPGRADE
1st year Capt = 102,131 CAD/yr
2nd year Capt = 122,157 CAD/yr
3rd year Capt = 127,163 CAD/yr
4th year Capt = 131,168 CAD/yr
12th year Capt = 170,219 CAD/yr
15th year Capt = 185,238 CAD/yr

Delta 319/320 Capt F/O wages, vs Spirit.

Year 12 is the Cap and a Captain Makes 158,340 CAD/yr vs Spirit 12 year captain making 170,219 CAD/yr
Year 12 is the Cap and a First Officer Makes 125,647 CAD/yr vs Spirit 12 year fo making 109,244 CAD/yr

I never justified lowering the bar. Just pointing out that in comparison to what's already out there, Spirit isn't paying a bad amount of money. I don't know much about how operators like Spirit shape the negativity of our industry when posting salaries like that. Since you do seem to have that business sense that I lack, I would like to hear your point of view on how you feel someone making 109k/yr at Spirit as a 12 year fo will drive the industry down any more than an Air Canada 319/320 first officer making 102k/yr in their 12th year? Similarly when discussing 12th year captain salaries. 170k/yr salary as 320 Captain at Spirit versus 152k/yr as Captain at AC on the 320? All values in Canadian dollars. Source: http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/

Not playing devils advocate. I'm sincerely interested in what insight you have that I may not have in why you think working for salaries in the likes of Spirit is a industry downer vs what's already out there...

Thanks 8)
---------- ADS -----------
 
Legacy
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:05 pm

Re: Canadian Jetlines five Boeing 737 MAX 7's

Post by Legacy »

Loopa, your breakdown on some of those numbers is a bit confusing and I am trying to understand what you are getting at. All I can say is AC gets paid more than Spirit, definitely has YOS (not sure if Spirit does) and it looks like you are trying to compare Delta to Spirit but Deltas wages definitely beat Spirits.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “General Airline Industry Comments”