Gravel Road / Private Unprepared Landings Surfaces

[Cod Father]

Its been a while since I've been in the books, and I don't have an FTGU near by.

So, I want to land on a gravel road or someone's unprepared field.

There is nothing wrong with the plane. I just want to use the long open space as an aerodrome.

I recall you make this a precautionary landing, with high and low passes before touching down. But then comes the radio.

Do you really need to make a PAN PAN call on 126.7 or the local frequency for such a landing, though there is nothing wrong with the plane?

[photofly]

A PAN PAN call is supposed to be for an urgency situation, an abnormality, especially when you need communications priority over other stations, but do not require immediate assistance. If you planned to land there when you took off, unless an unexpected difficulty arose in flight it's not an abnormality.

[PilotDAR]

To support Photofly, You would call PAN PAN (or Mayday) to request assistance, or draw attention to yourself for that purpose. If you're not in need of assistance, no need to call.

If you are planning the "place" as your destination, it's not a precautionary landing. Do give great care though, to your increased responsibility for managing more unknowns - and make sure the aircraft owner and insurer are agreeable to your chosen landing place.

If something goes not so well, do you have a back up plan? You might be an expensive distance from aviation type help. I've flown a number of repair parts into remote places for people who did not think they'd have a problem.....

[Johnny#5]

Big thing is to watch for traffic (obviously) and note locations of road signs. And watch turning on ground because some gravel roads have a wicked crown to them.

[Heliian]

Its pretty easy in a helicopter but just be sure if you go in you can get out. The spray warriors may do this daily but i wouldn't recommend landing on an open or public road.

[Cat Driver]

The biggest danger is power and telephone lines.

[A Regulator]

You may want to check the highway traffic act because in some Prov. It is illegal (emergencies only)

[Alberta_x51]

I used to live on 80 acres with a small strip on it in Northern Ontario, the neighbour also had a
strip running at 90 degrees, when the ground was still wet, we would block of the highway
with a car under where a power line crossed the road and an unnamed pilot would land and taxi
off and park in the driveway for a visit and then depart.

The neighbours were use to it, and it was a common practice and
safer than trying his luck on a soggy strip.

[Shiny Side Up]

Do you really need to make a PAN PAN call on 126.7 or the local frequency for such a landing, though there is nothing wrong with the plane?

No. The problem here is that the precautionary is taught by most instructors as an emergency exercise, ignoring its wider applications. I personally prefer the older version of the FTGM and FTM where there was no such thing as the precautionary, but rather there was a section on off airport landings.

[Cod Father]

I must of been spoiled. Learned to fly at airports that only had control towers or a FSS. Cross countries were to places with towers or FSS. Yet the vast expanse of the Prairies, so many airports, so little control.

Thanks for the help.

[iflyforpie]

The problem with the typical presentation of Ex 21 is that it is often done under time constraints and is offered as a 'cookie cutter' approach to landing on an airfield with unknown conditions.... often with some bogus rationale like having a sick passenger on board (in 90% of Canada.. you can land at a real airfield--with emergency medical services standing by--in the time it takes to do a precautionary that may or may not result in damage to the aircraft or further injuries and figured out how to get medical aid there).

Precautionary landings are a sliding scale that move from the airfield inspection above a paved and clear Certified ATF airport... all the way to quickly assessing a field for a forced approach... and just about everything in between: an airfield that hasn't been plowed, a closed airfield, a private airstrip in a farmer's field, a field you've walked but haven flown into yet, a road, a clearish, flatish area you plan on setting down before weather/night closes in, etc etc.

So using the radio needs to reflect the situation you are in and making your intentions known to those who need to know. If it is a friend's place... no need to use the radio. You planned on landing there, your flight following knows this, and you can call on the ground to close. If it is an unexpected place, you need to call your alerting services to change your destination, and possibly you might have to do it in the air otherwise you will not be able to reach them.

If you have an emergency where you still have power to make a precautionary landing (low oil pressure, stuck valve, low fuel) then declare that emergency and your intentions.

[Adam Oke]

Before you even start descending, have a very watchful eye for towers. Un-lit, un-marked Met Towers are killers. The next killers as you decend are power lines. Circle the landing area and as you circle look out (for towers) and in (for obstacles). Circle the field a number of times until you are completely comfortable. I typically circle a field between 2 and 4 times before entering to spray, and this is after over 1000hrs of low level work. Identify the wind direction. There are no wind socks, so flags, smoke, ponds, etc will all help. Think about landing and departing into wind. During your low level inspection, inspect for poles, and then find out where the wires go. This can be identified by insulators, poles across the road, and catching a glimpse with the light reflecting off the line when the sun hits it at the "perfect" angle. Identify lines for approach, landing, take off run, and departure. You must also identify other obstacles. This could be a poorly graded road that creates pot holes and "judder bars", street signs, potential traffic, etc. Anything you can possibly think of. Ideally, call the RM and have road graded and blocked upon arrival and departure. Think about turn around bays (field approaches). Once you're down ... can you backtrack?

If you see a pole, but can't see the line DO NOT descend any further. You MUST know where all power goes. If you are landing near a house, assume it has power going to the house. Some are buried, but more often then not the line is external and jogs across the road to the house. Also, various provinces have different practices as to where they put power lines. Eg. MB is mostly near the ditch, where as SK puts them a couple hundred feet into the field. The point is, look where you are not looking...this is not the time for complacency.

I have been in and out of strips on the side of mountains, backyards, grass strips, gravel strips, gravel roads, logging roads, minor highways, and major highways. I've had co-workers block highways and I've also called in RCMP to block highways.

My personal recommendation? Do not land on a road. Given the option for strip and/or unprepared strip do not even contemplate landing on a road. There are strips everywhere! If for some reason you MUST land on a road, do not land or depart under wires. This is an unnecessary risk that even us professional applicators avoid like the plague. For the record, aerial applicators avoid landing on roads and operate off of strips 95% of the time.

That being said, I have, and will mostly likely continue to use roads vs a field in the event of an engine failure and/or partial power loss. It has worked 100% of the time for me so far.

[Cat Driver]

I knew you would do all the typing for me if I waited long enough Adam when I wrote the following..

The biggest danger is power and telephone lines.

Good post.

[Adam Oke]

I knew you would do all the typing for me if I waited long enough Adam when I wrote the following..

The biggest danger is power and telephone lines.

Good post.

Dirty trick. You got me! . Lines are certainly the number one killer in our niche industry.

[Cat Driver]

Dirty trick. You got me! . Lines are certainly the number one killer in our niche industry.

I agree, but it is still the best flying any pilot could wish for.

[DonutHole]

I knew you would do all the typing for me if I waited long enough Adam when I wrote the following..

The biggest danger is power and telephone lines.

Good post.

Dirty trick. You got me! . Lines are certainly the number one killer in our niche industry.

With piece of shit equipment coming a close second.

[Adam Oke]

With piece of shit equipment coming a close second.

Or is it the "Yes Sir" mentality? Don't fly shit gear.

The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no

[DonutHole]

Agree 100 percent.

But.. I have a hard time believing a legitimately air worthy Pawnee exists anywhere but brazil.

How's your -8 coming along?

[Redneck_pilot86]

Don't waste your time with all this precautionary passes at 1000 feet, then 500 feet, then 200 feet and 90 knots to figure out the length. Just drive over to your intended area, get out and walk it. You will see much more detail, have the ability to pace the length, test the firmness, see potholes, crown, lumps of grass, etc, all while not wasting a bunch of gas. If the walk doesn't turn anything up, go flying, do one slow pass to check winds, wildlife, traffic, then turn and land.

Also, don't use "short field technique" and don't use "soft field technique" they are both stupid things spoon fed from instructor to instructor with no actual experience. Anyone actually doing this type of landing uses a combination of the two, where you land as slow as possible with all the flaps you can, brake no more than you need to and keep the yoke in your gut until shutdown. Keep moving, and use wider turns when able.

Have fun! Real runways suck.

[Adam Oke]

How's your -8 coming along?

Know anyone looking for an RV-8 tail project? . A minor shift in priorities has convinced me to put it up for sale!

I do agree that equipment can get you into trouble if you don't know it's limitations. Under powered gear, mixed with the right (wrong?) conditions, and a dose of inexperience -- and you're starting to complete the formula for disaster.

Back on the topic at hand -- Red neck, you make some great points. Many of the unprepared strips I have flown from, I personally checked out first on foot before landing. One thing that I will disagree on is "slow pass". I feel that this low, slow, and dirty airfield inspection that flight schools teach is utter BS. Most light, non-high performance singles will fare just fine at cruise power settings for a proper inspection. I do mine around 140mph in the Air Tractor.

[railroad]

This may not be the best place to learn how to do off-strip flying.

As soon as you start deciding where an airplane can be landed (and taken-off again), the are countless factors to consider. You should be having a long conversation, face to face with someone experienced in this type of flying. Either in a plane or over a couple cups of coffee.

Because your first question was regarding radio calls instead of any of the countless more important things, I don't think you are anywhere near ready to attempt this yet.

There is no one thing especially difficult about off-strip flying, but it is something you need to learn about before trying.

So back to my first statement, this is not the place to learn, and I am afraid the little knowledge you get here will just be enough to get you into trouble.

[DonutHole]

Adam

Talk to Kevin L at bas. Think he was kicking around the idea of building one.

[Redneck_pilot86]

Back on the topic at hand -- Red neck, you make some great points. Many of the unprepared strips I have flown from, I personally checked out first on foot before landing. One thing that I will disagree on is "slow pass". I feel that this low, slow, and dirty airfield inspection that flight schools teach is utter BS. Most light, non-high performance singles will fare just fine at cruise power settings for a proper inspection. I do mine around 140mph in the Air Tractor.

You are right, too slow is bad, and dangerous. When I said slow I didn't mean hanging on the edge of stall, but something slower than cruise is better in my mind. A lot of the ugly strips I go to are in mountain valleys where I can't accomplish a cruise speed pass both because I can't see the strip until I am over it, and I couldn't accomplish a turn at that speed afterwards anyway. Generally around 90-100 KIAS for me, and I think would be true for most aircraft doing this kind of work. Somewhere around the speed you need for flap extension, but I don't extend the flaps until committing to land. Other strips I will do my inspection on short final as I am committed to land already. A pass overhead would be several thousand feet and essentially useless.

as others have said, this is not the place to learn how to do this type of flying, and it is not something you just jump into. If you want to get started at it right away, do so on your normal runway, but set a portion of it ahead of time and endeavour to use only that. I won't let new guys even go to the small strips until they can demonstrate that they can land an airplane within 50 feet or less of their goal, every time. Work on your accuracy, because if you can't do that you will kill yourself when you get into the real offstrip world.

[Shiny Side Up]

The problem with the typical presentation of Ex 21 is that it is often done under time constraints and is offered as a 'cookie cutter' approach to landing on an airfield with unknown conditions.... often with some bogus rationale like having a sick passenger on board (in 90% of Canada.. you can land at a real airfield--with emergency medical services standing by--in the time it takes to do a precautionary that may or may not result in damage to the aircraft or further injuries and figured out how to get medical aid there).

Precautionary landings are a sliding scale that move from the airfield inspection above a paved and clear Certified ATF airport... all the way to quickly assessing a field for a forced approach... and just about everything in between: an airfield that hasn't been plowed, a closed airfield, a private airstrip in a farmer's field, a field you've walked but haven flown into yet, a road, a clearish, flatish area you plan on setting down before weather/night closes in, etc etc.

So using the radio needs to reflect the situation you are in and making your intentions known to those who need to know. If it is a friend's place... no need to use the radio. You planned on landing there, your flight following knows this, and you can call on the ground to close. If it is an unexpected place, you need to call your alerting services to change your destination, and possibly you might have to do it in the air otherwise you will not be able to reach them.

If you have an emergency where you still have power to make a precautionary landing (low oil pressure, stuck valve, low fuel) then declare that emergency and your intentions.

+1

On the "sick passenger" thing, that seems to have gone through the system, if I get someone who wants to be an instructor and we talk about this excersise, I'm always disappointed by the seemingly lack of imagination amongst the general populace. When asked why we do this, the "sick passenger" seems to be the only thing people can think up of, which incidentally would be the least probable circumstance. What kind of sick passemger are we talking? You're buzzing around with a lady who's water just broke? Seriously. Weather is a far better reason when it comes to "emergency" application and I wish more pilots had maybe thought of it rather than enter IFR unintentionally. The unfortunate fact is that the pilot population has increasingly shifted to ashpalt to ashpalt operations where even the thought of using a grass runway is an "emergency". The world of floats, skis and big wheels isn far away on youtube.

[photofly]

With a suddenly sick passenger: I can't fathom a reason why you'd want to risk a landing in a rural field following which the best possible outcome is to wait an hour or more for an ambulance to take you to the hospital-equipped town to which you could have flown directly. At a speed four times that of any road vehicle.

Bonus points if you radio ahead for an ambulance to meet you at the airport.

Double bonus points if you remember the "pilot isolate" switch on the intercom so you can concentrate on flying safely without distraction.