SAR A/C - Buffalo vs Hercules

[niss]

Watching mighty planes and noticed they're using Buffaloes out of Comox, and I know out of Trenton they're using Hercs. Anyone know why they use the different a/c's?

[iflyforpie]

I would imagine it has a lot to do with the terrain. Lots of tight valleys, and short strips in BC and YT that a Herc couldn't get into or wouldn't have the same safety margins if it did.

The Herc can carry more equipment and personnel and is faster I believe, very helpful in the vast flatness east of the Divide.

[Heliian]

Exactly, they are 2 totally different a/c, the buffalo is very manoeuverable compared to the herc and can land/take off on a dime and give you change back. The herc has 4 engines, more payload and range, better suited to the flatlands east of the rockies. I remember seeing buffs in Ontario a long time ago though.

[Wilbur]

They use different aircraft because they have to. The RCAF only has 6 Buffs remaining out of an original fleet of about 28. Most were retired and sold off due to budget cuts.

[kev994]

Trenton used to have Buff's but they ran out of airframes.

[teacher]

When I was on glider with Air Cadets at Mountain View they were selling off a whole bunch of Buffaloes to an African country. I guess they never imagined the RCAF would be scrounging for Buff parts 2 decades later.

[Kosiw]

C295 or C27J or C130J

What is the best replacement for the ancient Buffalos and Hercs in the SAR role?

[Brantford Beech Boy]

Whichever one can be based in YFB, YRT, YRB or YEV....

Scariest part about SAR in the far north is the wait while the cavalry gets organized to leave YTR to position somewhere to organise a search....

BBB

[ogopogo]

We're shopping for new aircraft... this has been ongoing for some time now. Buying new airplanes has always been such a controversial issue in Canada.

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/new ... t/i8o9zsox

One candidate, that isn't a Herc:

http://www.c-27j.ca/media

[Heliian]

How about a plane-o-copter?

Canadian_SARV.jpg (38.58 KiB) Viewed 2604 times

[rigpiggy]

Problem is where are the SAR bases? YTR, YYR, YYQ, YWG. How hard would it be to place a contingent up north and cycle through the crews. As far as BC, Buffalo reigns supreme east of the rocks, might as well be the new herc. LM makes one C-130x? without all the gee whiz cargo loading stuff for several million cheaper, would reduce costs with single parts pipeline, training. Or they could simply IRAN the old Hercs through Snow Aviation, but that wouldn't make the lobbyists happy.

[fish4life]

I don't think YYQ is a SAR base

[I_Drive_Planes]

How about a plane-o-copter?

Canadian_SARV.jpg

Great in theory, not so great in practice. The Osprey produces considerably more rotor wash than a conventional helicopter so hoisting would be virtually impossible.

Check out what it does to those trees: http://wildfiretoday.com/2010/05/31/osp ... -nyc-park/

It does look good in SAR yellow though!

[spruceair]

I personally think the best choice (maybe not totally realistic..?) would be to have Viking build new Buffalos. Updated airframes, engines, avionics. They've done it with the Twotter, would it be feasesble with the Buffalo?

[kev994]

The buff can't be pressurized, Viking hasn't built one so they aren't eligible to bid.

[Meatservo]

Personally I would like to see new aircraft built in Canada too. I don't know enough about the requirements of SAR to comment on the merits of the contending aircraft relative to one another. I know the Buffalo is a remarkable plane, the RCAF has Twin Otters too and you would think they would be more useful for SAR than they seem to be. I wonder if S.T.O.L. and off-strip capability is really relevant anymore considering what the RCAF does and how it uses its planes. You'd think it would be, but apparently not.

[Bolter]

I saw somewhere that Viking proposed adding pressurization to the cockpit of the Buff to increase range etc. SAR techs would have to go up front for transit if that happened. IAC agree with decision to restrict bid to aircraft in production. Look at what happened with the new Searching .

[rigpiggy]

I don't think YYQ is a SAR base

With CC-115 Buffalo Aircraft and CH-149 Cormorant Helicopters, 442 Transport and Rescue Squadron carries out search and rescue operations in the busiest region in Canada, stretching from the B.C.-Washington border to the Arctic, and from the Rocky Mountains to 1,200 km out into the Pacific.

[kevind]

I don't think YYQ is a SAR base

But YQQ is.......think there was typo in the original list of SAR Bases

[Gannet167]

The Buffalo is an amazing aircraft and testament to Canadian aerospace engineering. It can do things that no other aircraft in production can. However, patriotism aside, many SAR guys argue that the C130J is a better platform. It's significantly faster, has much longer endurance and range - in part due to pressurization, and can carry much more kit. The Buff can do things the Herc can't, but if you ask the guys in the business, those things rarely result in lives saved. The Buff will get lower and slower in a mountain canyon over a crash site for example, but when the Cormorant is what will be inevitably hoisting the survivors up, that capability is probably best traded off for being able to get to the site faster, drop more supplies and Sartechs, or get further offshore to those in need.

The USAF has parked its C27 fleet and claims higher operating costs than the 130J, although this is somewhat debated. The 295 is simply too small and has inadequate range. Commonality with the existing 130J fleet would mean significant savings in maintenance, training and interoperability between squadrons.