Just curious, wondering what operators out there, of any size, that still give an actual pension for new hires, not just matching contributions, etc. Details if able.
I have heard that Jazz does, but AC doesn't?

Cheers and Happy holidays!

Even if they do you can't count on it. Nortel had pensions, then after bankruptcy it was cut dramatically due to underfunding. You are best to take care of yourself, as difficult as that is.

AC definitely has a pension. Although in Aug of 2012 they switched from a DB to DC type pension. WJ is the major without the pension although I hear they have a very generous ESOP program.

cgzro wrote: You are best to take care of yourself, as difficult as that is.

You have no idea....DanWEC needs an entire team of professionals just to make sure he puts on pants in the morning....even then, it's 50/50 he's in nothing but a banana hammock at Walmart.

Are you saying I should be a Republican Presidential Candidate? I'm flattered!

I've found so far that Westjet has up to 20% matching, which isn't bad. More secure than a pension fund.
AC's fund was over a billion in deficit during the crash a few years back but has apparently been replenished with surplus due to investment returns. Scary to think that something you plan on just vaporizes and you're high and dry.

Can anyone confirm if Jazz does indeed provide a pension? Curious as well about the other 705's, Morningstar, Sunwing, Transat, etc.

Thanks for the info.
Cheers.

Jazz and Transat do indeed have pensions. Unsure about the rest.

Be in command of your life and don't leave your future to something as fickle as an airline pension or share program .... I can't stress enough .... check out www.daveramsey.com ... look at the top for the drop down menu for "The Show," and then follow through and listen to a few episodes.

SSH

What the @#$! is a pension?!?

It's something that you get to pay out if you get a divorce. They are entitled to it before you are.

Ain't that nice?

DanWEC wrote:Just curious, wondering what operators out there, of any size, that still give an actual pension for new hires, not just matching contributions, etc. Details if able.
I have heard that Jazz does, but AC doesn't?

Cheers and Happy holidays!

Fast Air does after one year service.

http://flairair.ca/flair-air/careers/

DC Pension / RRSP matching. Needs 1 year of service, and I believe the RRSP matching goes up after 3 years and 5 years? I have to double check but it's something like that.

Ornge FW pilots have a pension for new hires, It's very good to, I believe it is with Standard Life.

loopa wrote:http://flairair.ca/flair-air/careers/

DC Pension / RRSP matching. Needs 1 year of service, and I believe the RRSP matching goes up after 3 years and 5 years? I have to double check but it's something like that.

I believe the OP was asking about DB pensions. A rare thing, even AC doesn't have them anymore for new hires.

Almost every job out there now outside the government pilot positions is a DC type where the company has no obligation to you after you retire, and simply match a $ amount that is invested in whatever limited investments you choose from your provider, such as Manulife.

Correct Tbaylx, I am curious as to who still carries the legacy costs of a DB pension plan, not matching contributions.

Most of my family are in the civil servitude of GovCo, and it's a glorious thing that they have going.

It's glorious at the moment but I wouldn't want a DB pension right now with the state of debt our governments are carrying. Look to Detroit to see how their DB pensions faired when the city declared bankruptcy. Personally I think American Airlines has one of the best pensions out there now, they contribute 16% of your salary to a 401k or for us Canadians a RRSP.

no government, in any country, since the invention of sovereign debt, has ever paid the debt.
the only country to have paid its entire debt once is England right after fighting Napoleon.
since that time, all the governments, worldwide, from left to right wing, from north to south, have let the debt being buried in inflation, repaying only interests to lenders when it was time to repay the govt bond, and therefore borrowing to repay the principal.

Detroit collapsed because industries left town and housing market was in a steady decline since the 50s.

the debt repayment motto that any politician is blabling about is just to reassure "the base" who thinks that managing a country's finance strategy is like managing their home's mortgage...

So, relax with the debt...

air inuit and air creebec have very good retirement plans.

Ok let's go one more, what about Greece? They certainly aren't getting the same pensions due to the government over borrowing and now having to repay debt. You say Detroit had a problem with Industry leaving well take a look at Canada right now, manufacturing has been leaving for years and it's not coming back or when it is the jobs pay less.

Government debts don't work like personal debts; they don't have a single line of credit from a bank and they're just paying the interest. They have a large number of small debts, like Canada Savings Bonds, which they repay after a set term. If they need to borrow more, they sell more bonds or open more small loans which will be repaid in a few years, so they're constantly cycling through loans. It's not like we have debts from 1867 with interest accruing.

fish4life wrote:Ok let's go one more, what about Greece?

you're right in a sense that in order to repay debt the greek gvt is trying to pump money everywhere, pension being one of those spots. they're not reducing pension because of insufficient funds.
but the irony with greece is that the IMF, Euro central bank, Germany and the like are forcing Greece to repay a debt when Germany's debt after WWII was "restructured" in 1956 (understand erased) allowing it to develop and use the industrial infrastructure it developped thanks to the same war, when France's debt sunk at the same period thanks to a two digits growth and inflation.

the problem with Canada today is a lack of diversification. oil and commodities are not enough for sustainable prosperity. in the end, exploiting commodities, whatever they are, looks like a ripp off because companies come and go.
what is left now since the crude hit a record low 35$ a barrel ?

Transport Canada, the military and probably the Mounties.

I believe Emirates also has a pension plan for expats.

Every good deal is getting harder to find.

Military DB pension has changed in the past couple of years. Now we need to serve 25 years before we can get an immediate annuity. Any other service for less than 25 years gets locked away until you reach retirement age. As of 1 Jan 2016 we are also paying more into the pension fund than previously. The rate is now 50/50 vice 60/40. So less pay per month without a raise in over 4 years. I've got 4 years to go and then I'll be free to make the choice to chase heavy iron - I won't have enough years left to get another DB pension - so working towards a DC top up of my RRSP/401K is a good deal. Having an immediate pension pay out of 40-50% of my gross pay for the rest of my life is a nice multi-plier for starting at AC/WJ/etc and their low pay structure.