New Leaf (ULCC) starts February 12

[flyinhigh]

Here we go again

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/specia ... 95001.html

[aycarumba]

They must be high when they came out with the name.

[skkfdk]

http://www.newleaftravel.ca/our-partner.html

[Old fella]

I suppose it's easy to be negative and sceptical, however at least this upstart Leisure travel company is associated with an established airline and its infrastructure. They certainly (at this point) seem have a leg-up on the other two who wish to venture in the same area. I hope it works and wish them best of luck.

[Legacy]

Great. Not needed. Move on.

[wallflower]

With a bit of luck they will go down the toilet and take those Flair numpties with them.

[atphat]

Curious wallflower. Why do you say that? Who do you work for?

[WeGonRotate]

This is a disaster waiting to happen imo.

[complexintentions]

I can't disagree with the sentiment that this proposed venture has a difficult chance of surviving, let alone succeeding.

But instead of gleefully predicting their demise, perhaps it would be more constructive to try and investigate - why? Why is Canada such a shit country to try and start and run a business in? And why do Canadians just roll over and take it with the monopolies, duopolies, fixed pricing, and the like: from airlines to insurance to real estate cartels to telecoms and on and on. Could it be perhaps because any time a new entrant in any of the aforementioned fields tries to start up, it's met by jeers and lack of support, or more often, indifference?

Seems like far more of a serious concern than one new airline attempting to make a go of it.

You'd think pilots would WANT a new airline to start and succeed, hell would support any initiative that grows or enhances the industry, yet on an aviation forum, it mostly elicits knowing chuckles.

Tragic, really.

[trey kule]

2 planes....that is about 20 pilot jobs.
15 in a couple of years....150 pilot jobs.

Yep complex, it baffles me as well why people who cry that there are no jobs for them dont wish this new company great success,

It is not all that long ago that a little startup was running three jets between places like Calgary, Edmonton and Grand prairie. People said they would never compete with Air Canada. Maybe you have all heard of them...Westjet

I wish them all the best.

[FICU]

ULCC = ULCEmployees and unless experienced airline pilots are willing to accept a ULCWage and compensation package theses ULCCs will have ULExperience sitting up front and I wouldn't put my family in their hands.

Hope I'm wrong.

[bmc]

The thing I like about your posts, Complex, is they mirror my view, saving me from writing.

I read a tread like this and I can't believe some people would like to see the industry shrink. Then, they'll have more to whine about. Unless I'm missing something.

[flyingvinnie]

ULCC = ULCEmployees and unless experienced airline pilots are willing to accept a ULCWage and compensation package theses ULCCs will have ULExperience sitting up front and I wouldn't put my family in their hands.

Hope I'm wrong.

Does that also mean you wouldn't let you family fly on Encore?

[FICU]

I would not put my family on any ULCC Asian or European airline.

My family has not flown on Encore.

I fly Air Canada for pleasure travel.

[Johnny#5]

...except to Halifax.

[FL020]

[bmc]

I would not put my family on any ULCC Asian or European airline.

My family has not flown on Encore.

I fly Air Canada for pleasure travel.

Which European airlines?

[atphat]

ugh.....nevermind

[FighterPilot]

Is there any connection between Flairs 737 parked here in YWG lately? Or does it have to do with the FIFA Womens World Cup? There's only one now, but there was two about 4 days ago.

[RG500]

ULCC = ULCEmployees and unless experienced airline pilots are willing to accept a ULCWage and compensation package theses ULCCs will have ULExperience sitting up front and I wouldn't put my family in their hands.

Hope I'm wrong.

Air Canada/Westjet/Jazz/Sky Regional/Porter have hired their FO's coming off B1900's and even PC12's. If an ULCC starts up, their captains will be more than likely, typed with experience and their FO's will come from the same pool that every other Canadian carrier draws from. Where is the jeopardy/threat?
With naive statements like that you'd be a shoo-in to become an aviation reporter for our many laughable media sources.

[FICU]

If their compensation package is ULC then they will have trouble attracting type rated and experienced Captains... I hope... then who will be in the left seat? My guess inexperienced pilots who will pay for training to fly big shiny jets. Look at ULCCs overseas... accident after accident.

ULCC = pay peanuts for your flight and the only "extra" that is free is the extra risk thanks to ULCCrews.

Need I bring up Jetsgo? My company booked me on them for a deadhead and after 1 flight I refused to ever fly with them again.

[RG500]

First off, this is Canada and not overseas, though some may argue, we have standards and oversight. Our pilots and talent are exported, we don't import (Sunwing is another argument).
Jetsgo was an exception as crews essentially paid for their position, hopefully our profession has learned from these mistakes.
Regardless of what you may think, there will always be experienced crews available either returning from overseas or those that want a change from here in Canada, as well those that are ready for the challenge and advancement.
Having the fortune of having worked at more than one job, my experience is that most carriers will some have exceptional pilots, the middle of the road guys and those that just make the standard, regardless of the pay scale. My first and lowest paying job was a shining example of this. We were striving to achieve a professionalism and a standard to carry us through our careers, but our pay didn't define us.
Now don't get me wrong, we need to be treated (and paid properly) as professionals, but there's no correlation between someone's salary and a pilot's skill and capability.

[FICU]

Ya this is Canada but the overseas model is being looked at on our shores because all management of ULCCs care about with regards to crews is how little they will have to pay them.

Let's see, the bottom of the 737 Captain scale in Canada is about 85K/year.

How much lower do you think New Leaf will be trying to go below that when they employ their own pilots and how much will the pilots have to pay for training? And because of the shitty WAWCON just what level of quality and experience will they attract in Captains especially?

[RG500]

Your information regarding Canada's potential ULCC's using an overseas model comes from what source?
Their crew's experience is determined by the type of business model they run?

New Leaf will wet lease Flair, which sounds like the same deal KFC had with Greyhound. Flair offers them a turn key operation, it will take a considerable amount of time for New Leaf to wean themselves off of what Flair offers and for New Leaf to create a flight operations from the ground up. This will occur only after Flair's contract is terminated.
You make assumptions and assertions without anything to back up your points.

[FICU]

8 posts and a strong defense of this new ULCC says enough.

Have a good night!