Class 4 instructors

[redlaser]

I often wonder if Class 4 instructors receive adequate training in Air regulations, CAR's, ;Recently I had a class 4 instructor tell me that he did not have to fill out the form for Direct Supervision , Prior to an instructional flight. He went on to tell me that the previous flight school he was working at in the TO area which employed several class 4 instructors which also were under the direct supervision of a Class 1 instructor, did not complete the required form before giving flight instruction to their students, So are class 4 instructors flying in Canada not being supervised directly by a Class 1 or 2, ?, Do they not know the rules regarding Class 4 instructor ratings, And what is meant by Direct Supervision, What's your take on the matter?

[EPR]

The only paper work required would be your PTR.
Anything else would just be school policy paper work stuff.
I think you should concern yourself with the lesson in hand and not some use less paper work that will only go into file G!

[Shiny Side Up]

Recently I had a class 4 instructor tell me that he did not have to fill out the form for Direct Supervision , Prior to an instructional flight.

Show us the CAR that would be broken here.

[digits_]

Oh the irony

[Cessna driver]

when I was a 4, we never had to fill out a form, simply a meeting with the CFI every couple weeks-month and talked about each student with each ones strengths and weaknesses and what is coming up for each one. The door was always open to talk to the CFI if a situation arises and we needed advice.

[DanWEC]

"Direct Supervision" is whatever method is laid out in the FTU's TCM that was approved for the original OC, or amended. It doesn't matter what it is as long as it satisfies the general guideline that a class 4 be directly supervised. Flight proposal form, copy of the PTR every day, Text message, daily, weekly, monthly meeting, whatever. If there is an audit and a finding, it may be ordered to be improved, but that's about it.

[photofly]

Redlaser,

what class of instructor are you?

[NotDirty!]

What's green, and smells of pork?

[5x5]

Here's the reg -

421.62 Class 4 Supervision Requirement

The holder of a Class 4 Flight Instructor Rating shall be under the supervision of the holder of a Class 1 or 2 Flight Instructor Rating, in the applicable category, and shall submit for review to the supervising instructor the following:

(1) the training program for each student undergoing training by the holder of a Class 4 Flight Instructor Rating;

(2) flight progress checks for each student at intervals to be specified by the supervising flight instructor, but at least once before the first solo flight and once before the flight test for issue of the pilot licence;

(3) a record of results on the form “Instructor’s Training Record While Under Direct Supervision”; and

(4) the student’s pilot training record for each first solo flight and for each flight test recommendation for approval.

It's a very minimal requirement and doesn't specifically require much rigour. As such it's one area that a school can differentiate itself from others if the CFI and supervising instructors are willing/able to take the time to provide more than the basic supervision.

In many ways, supervision of a Class 4 is much like an apprenticeship. The guidance and support of a more experienced instructor allows the Class 4 to become more proficient much more rapidly as they don't have to struggle as much with deciding what works and what doesn't all on their own. Instructing is a tough enough job without being left to more or less fend for yourself without a lot of experience to base decisions and judgement of student progress on. They can be more confident they are doing things correctly.

The other advantage of more direct/ongoing supervision is that the quality of training tends to be more consistent. There's likely to be fewer instances of a Class 4 doing odd things simply because they don't know any better.

In my opinion, I think that the time spent providing more direct supervision and development guidance is well worth it even though it does take time and effort. In the end, new instructors develop more quickly, students receive better training and the school maintains a good reputation. All good things in my mind.

[photofly]

No, no, no, you don't understand. It's all about filling the right pieces of paper *before* any training flight. That's all.

[Shiny Side Up]

(3) a record of results on the form “Instructor’s Training Record While Under Direct Supervision”; and

(4) the student’s pilot training record for each first solo flight and for each flight test recommendation for approval.

I will say that these last two points are of a critical failure of lots of Class 1s and CFIs in that they are not educating the class 4s out there on the importance of. As of yet, every class 4 I have encountered has not known the significance of this bit. The form referred to in 3) is on the last page of the FIG and once it has a signature for a solo recommend or a flight test recommend, it becomes something the class 4 should guard with his/her life. Also to make sure that they immediately obtain copies of said student's PTRs. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many class 4s seem to have no clue that this little bit of paper is the key to them being able to upgrade from a class 4 to a class 3. IF YOU ARE A CLASS 4 AND READING THIS MAKE SURE YOU HAVE CUSTODY OF THIS PAPER. If you get the recommends you need, but do not have this paper, in short you're fucked. Do not leave it with your CFI. Something happens to him/her, killed in a tragic orgy accident, or more likely leaves to Coldandwindyville, Manitoba for a twin job, you are also fucked. Back to square one for you. If the flight school folds and you show up and the doors are locked and the airplanes being repoed, and your form is in some cabinet inside: you're fucked.

If you are a class 4 ready to upgrade, you're more hireable than one that isn't. Time to start being responsible for yourself.

[floatplanepilot]

I often wonder if Class 4 instructors receive adequate training in Air regulations, CAR's, ;Recently I had a class 4 instructor tell me that he did not have to fill out the form for Direct Supervision , Prior to an instructional flight. He went on to tell me that the previous flight school he was working at in the TO area which employed several class 4 instructors which also were under the direct supervision of a Class 1 instructor, did not complete the required form before giving flight instruction to their students, So are class 4 instructors flying in Canada not being supervised directly by a Class 1 or 2, ?, Do they not know the rules regarding Class 4 instructor ratings, And what is meant by Direct Supervision, What's your take on the matter?

No form required but I would recommend recording it as a Class I/II as it makes TC audits go smoother.

When I was a Class 1 my method was to have the instructor call me/meet with me with their plans for the day, and record it on a sheet so when TC rolls around I had proof that I was supervising them. I would review PTR's weekly and record my recommendations. I also held a weekly meeting with all instructors to go over an exercise or topic share idea's, discuss students, etc. I made a record of it all for TC.

[redlaser]

Thanks 5x5 and sunny side up, you both got it right and both deserve a Star, All you class 4 instructors out there, make sure you do your paper work before going flying Otw you will never become a Class 3 without the required documentation , and proof that you are receiving Direct Supervision must be documented .

[Aviatard]

make sure you do your paper work before going flying Otw you will never become a Class 3

I don't know what you're talking about. Maybe its a language barrier thing but the record of supervision needs to be completed for 3 solos and 3 flight tests. You could do a fair bit of flying before those happen. It's not something that needs to be filled out before you fly with a student.

What am I missing?

[B208]

What am I missing?

Nothing. There is no requirement under the CARs to document daily supervision.

[redlaser]

Cars 421.62 section (3) is clear , its a requirement and a regulation, So all you class 4's out there if you go flying with a student and have not been cleared by your Class 1 or 2 for the particular flight you have not fofill the Direct Supervision requirement , Every flight must be authorised , Supervised, and Documented on the TC form.

[Shiny Side Up]

Every flight must be authorised , Supervised, and Documented on the TC form.

No it doesn't. Your CARs-fu is lacking. Or your reading comprehension. Authorized, yes. Supervised, yes. Documented on the form? No. You seem to be lacking knowledge of the form you're talking about. Please tell us what class of instructor you are.

[digits_]

Thanks 5x5 and sunny side up, you both got it right and both deserve a Star, All you class 4 instructors out there, make sure you do your paper work before going flying Otw you will never become a Class 3 without the required documentation , and proof that you are receiving Direct Supervision must be documented .

The signed document by the supervising instructor for 3 solos and 3 recommends + a copy of their PTRs to speed up the process was all it took for me

That method passed a TC audit as well without issues.

[redlaser]

Additionally Class 4 instructors cannot give flight training if a Class 1 or 2 is not present at the school, to provide direct supervision, section (3) must be completed and the FORM must have the signature of both the CFI or his delicate if the latter is a class 1 or 2.

[redlaser]

By two signatures , the Class4 and the supervising CFI , must appear on the FORM.

[B208]

Redlaser,

Are you trolling?

[digits_]

By two signatures , the Class4 and the supervising CFI , must appear on the FORM.

I'm guessing this is the FORM you are referring to : https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... d-5216.htm ?

Where exactly are you and your supervisor planning on signing for every flight ?

[Shiny Side Up]

Additionally Class 4 instructors cannot give flight training if a Class 1 or 2 is not present at the school, to provide direct supervision, section (3) must be completed and the FORM must have the signature of both the CFI or his delicate if the latter is a class 1 or 2.

Section (3) refers to the progress checks that must be completed in section (2) of 421.62. Again, your CARs knowledge is incorrect.

[digits_]

Additionally Class 4 instructors cannot give flight training if a Class 1 or 2 is not present at the school, to provide direct supervision, section (3) must be completed and the FORM must have the signature of both the CFI or his delicate if the latter is a class 1 or 2.

Section (3) refers to the progress checks that must be completed in section (2) of 421.62. Again, your CARs knowledge is incorrect.

It doesn't. Section 3 and section 2 are completely separate. They are separate requirements that need to be fulfilled. The amount of progress checks in (2) can be different than the ones in (3).

[redlaser]

digits_ the form you referred to is the one relating to the upgrade from a Class 4 to a Class 3, it is not the form which has to be filled every day by the Class 4 instructor and signed by the CFI, prior to the Instructor giving flight lessons to his or her student, Direct Supervision by the CFI must be documented, for every flight undertaken by the Class4 instructor, If in doubt check with TC inspector of your flight School.