Training only/predominantly in a Cessna 152

[utczulugmt]

Is there anything gained or lost by only/predominantly training in a Cessna 152?

I see some schools minimize the course cost by offering the option of doing the all the single engine training in a C152.

But from what I have read and seen online, it would appear that one should get familiar with a Cessna 172 as it is very likely that a first job will be on a C172.


If the above question/reasoning seems incorrect, please note that my knowledge about these things are limited/non-existent.

[esp803]

It will make absolutely no difference, take the cheaper option.

By the time you have your CPL the transition from one light single Cessna to another will take a couple circuits, and you'll be fine.

E

[SuperchargedRS]

Its cheaper.

Better bet would be to train in a small tailwheel or glider.

[PilotDAR]

I agree with Supercharged, that some tailwheel time is really good for your skills development, if you can get it. That aside, if the only question is 152 vs 172, exactly as esp803 says. And, I'm speaking as the owner of a 150M for 29 years. (Don't worry Supercharged, my other plane is a taildragger!)

[photofly]

Which is the first job you suppose will be on a 172??

[Shiny Side Up]

Which is the first job you suppose will be on a 172??

While I'd suspect he's referring to instructing, I've seen 172s used for air photo, Lidar, jumper dumping, banner towing, animal tracking, traffic patrol, pipeline patrol, to name a few applications.

[SuperchargedRS]

Which is the first job you suppose will be on a 172??

While I'd suspect he's referring to instructing, I've seen 172s used for air photo, Lidar, jumper dumping, banner towing, animal tracking, traffic patrol, pipeline patrol, to name a few applications.

Jumping a 172, thsts got to be the small and slow boat to china

[photofly]

Which is the first job you suppose will be on a 172??

While I'd suspect he's referring to instructing, I've seen 172s used for air photo, Lidar, jumper dumping, banner towing, animal tracking, traffic patrol, pipeline patrol, to name a few applications.

I thought he meant instructing; in which case note the disconnect of training in a 152 but assuming that all instructing takes place in a 172...

[PilotDAR]

Even the modest 150 can make itself useful doing something other than training!

[photofly]

Did you really bother to airbrush your ident?

[PilotDAR]

Yeah, just on the one side. The job is done now, so it's visible again!

[photofly]

You mean you airbrushed the photo, or the airplane!?

That's a CARs violation... $5000 fine!
Did you make the appropriate logbook entries? More fines....

[lownslow]

That's a CARs violation... $5000 fine!
Did you make the appropriate logbook entries? More fines....

OMG IS THAT A HOME MADE VOT MACHINE UNDERNEATH??!!!!!11!!!?

I'd probably hide the giant registration letters too if I was towing around a bright red missile thingy. I can't imagine some of the phone calls that would cause.

[photofly]

I'm sure nobody is surprised by my recidivist attitude towards recklessly broadcasting unauthorized microwatts in the aviation band because I have a reputation for lawlessness and living on the edge. It's well know around these parts that I even run with scissors.

But PilotDAR is the poster boy for crossed Ts and dotted Is. If you check the times of his posts you'll see he's actually in bed by 9:30 every night. I'm so stunned to learn of his blatant "do as I say, not as I do" hypocrisy that I feel his moral authority here is fatally damaged. It's not like he doesn't know the procedure to get a serialized STC for rocket-towing, is it?

[PilotDAR]

You mean you airbrushed the photo, or the airplane!?

While I was tucked happily away for the night, Photofly was awake worrying! But as he correctly points out, every "T" was crossed, and "I" dotted for that flying, and not a single milliwatt escaped!

[photofly]

Oh, the relief!

[utczulugmt]

Which is the first job you suppose will be on a 172??

Hello photfly, the answer to your question is: I do not know. I actually have no experience to know.


I was reading over at Vital Aviation and came across the info. quoted below.

Just to be clear, Vital did not actually say one should/must learn on a 172 (instead of a 152), but based on how they explained their rationale for using a 172, I thought I would pose the question here. Particularly, as it now appeared (to me) that other schools were only using 152 just for the sake of advertising a lower course cost at the expense of me potentially getting proper/necessary training on a 172 (this was my perception, not a fact).

Centennial Flight Centre and SkyQuest Aviation were the only schools I came across (so far) that offered some detailed insight into the differences between the plane types from a training perspective.



Also just to add, the type of training I was referring to was PPL+CPL+Multi-IFR. Obviously, there are aspects of a PPL+CPL+Multi-IFR training program that would require something other than a 152 (or 172). But for all other aspects of the training where the plane type options are generally a 152 or 172, would there be any reason to go with a 172 instead of 152 (considering that the 152 is cheaper to rent)?

From what I have read so far in the responses, the consensus seems to be that a 152 is more than ok for doing whatever similar training I would do on a 172.

PLANES THAT PREPARE YOU FOR THAT FIRST JOB

Old work-horses that serve the industry

There are some nice new aircraft out there in the training market these days; sleek, plastic, sexy-looking machines that attract new students. Unfortunately, they are not what your employer will be flying when you go to get that first job. When you start work as a pilot you will be asked to fly a homely Cessna – so that’s what you should learn on. An employer doesn’t want to have to teach you how to fly his equipment, he expects you to be able to get in and go!

That’s why we at Vital use the Cessna 172 (4-seater) for training. After learning on this aircraft, there is no further training required to fly the Cessna 180, 182, 206 etc. used for entry-level jobs in the aviation industry.

[7ECA]

I have to laugh at that last quote about "planes that prepare you for that first job".

And how many sleazy operators out there go; "Sorry son, you just don't have any 180/185/206 time, and shit we can't turn you loose on that plane without an excessive amount of company training. No problem though, we have a career opportunity for you, we'll start you out on the dock (or hangar as the case may be), and after a season or two of good hard work, we'll see about getting you some time in that beast of a plane..."

[crazyaviator]

Many Many moons ago, I was happily scooting along in my C-1filthy, oblivious to the world outside my little realm,, when all of a sudden, another C-1filthy came a stuka divebombing my little launch! After evasive maneuvers and a few curse words, the coffee all over the windshield and my reading book ruined, I slowly realized that it was indeed the legendary PilotDAR who blew indiscrimately into MY airspace! I forgave him before i landed, because, you know, thats just the way I am .

[utczulugmt]

I have to laugh at that last quote about "planes that prepare you for that first job".

And how many sleazy operators out there go; "Sorry son, you just don't have any 180/185/206 time, and shit we can't turn you loose on that plane without an excessive amount of company training. No problem though, we have a career opportunity for you, we'll start you out on the dock (or hangar as the case may be), and after a season or two of good hard work, we'll see about getting you some time in that beast of a plane..."

Hello 7ECA, if the reality as you suggests it is, that there are those operators out there who are going say "Sorry son, you just don't have any 180/185/206 time....;" then if not for technical/training reasons, is it not better (for "political" reasons) if possible to also get training on a 172 (just to satisfy those operators who may look favourably on someone having 172 "experience")?

[PilotDAR]

the consensus seems to be that a 152 is more than ok for doing whatever similar training I would do on a 172.

Is true.

use the Cessna 172 (4-seater) for training. After learning on this aircraft, there is no further training required to fly the Cessna 180, 182, 206 etc. used for entry-level jobs in the aviation industry.

Not really.

The differences between a 180/182/206 and 172 are much greater than the differences between a 172 and a 152/150. If you can fly a 152 really well, you are well set to be trained on the 180+ Cessnas. That training will take some time based upon your skill, though for my experience might be as brief as the insurer will require for you to be covered. I was given type conversion training to a C 207 in two circuits, based on my pretty good experience on most of the smaller number Cessnas. You're not going to do that straight off a 152 or 172. Having more 172 time, and less 152 time would not have affected that training time for me.

The jump from 152/172 to 180+ involves getting used to a much heavier aircraft with much greater inertia to manage (which factors into speeds too). You cannot load a 152 to be high enough wing loading to simulate this, but really not the 172 either. When you are well trained and practiced in a 152, your transition training to a 172 should be less than an hour. You will not get to the next level of Cessnas with just another hour, so you may as well pound the time on the cheaper 152, as ultimately, you'll have more hours in total at the end, if you spent the same $$ as flying the 172 all that time.

There's nothing wrong with training in 172's, you're just paying the cost to use more fuel and plane to carry more empty seats along with you.

[utczulugmt]

the consensus seems to be that a 152 is more than ok for doing whatever similar training I would do on a 172.

Is true.

use the Cessna 172 (4-seater) for training. After learning on this aircraft, there is no further training required to fly the Cessna 180, 182, 206 etc. used for entry-level jobs in the aviation industry.

Not really.

The differences between a 180/182/206 and 172 are much greater than the differences between a 172 and a 152/150. If you can fly a 152 really well, you are well set to be trained on the 180+ Cessnas. That training will take some time based upon your skill, though for my experience might be as brief as the insurer will require for you to be covered. I was given type conversion training to a C 207 in two circuits, based on my pretty good experience on most of the smaller number Cessnas. You're not going to do that straight off a 152 or 172. Having more 172 time, and less 152 time would not have affected that training time for me.

The jump from 152/172 to 180+ involves getting used to a much heavier aircraft with much greater inertia to manage (which factors into speeds too). You cannot load a 152 to be high enough wing loading to simulate this, but really not the 172 either. When you are well trained and practiced in a 152, your transition training to a 172 should be less than an hour. You will not get to the next level of Cessnas with just another hour, so you may as well pound the time on the cheaper 152, as ultimately, you'll have more hours in total at the end, if you spent the same $$ as flying the 172 all that time.

There's nothing wrong with training in 172's, you're just paying the cost to use more fuel and plane to carry more empty seats along with you.

Wow, I really did not know any of this, thanks for your detailed explanation.

[fish4life]

Also lets be honest a high wing Cessna is a simple airplane that anyone could jump into and fly if they have flown one before.

[Chris M]

The jump from 152/172 to 180+ involves getting used to a much heavier aircraft with much greater inertia to manage (which factors into speeds too). You cannot load a 152 to be high enough wing loading to simulate this, but really not the 172 either. When you are well trained and practiced in a 152, your transition training to a 172 should be less than an hour. You will not get to the next level of Cessnas with just another hour, so you may as well pound the time on the cheaper 152, as ultimately, you'll have more hours in total at the end, if you spent the same $$ as flying the 172 all that time.

There's nothing wrong with training in 172's, you're just paying the cost to use more fuel and plane to carry more empty seats along with you.

On top of flying differently the 180+ Cessnas are also a significant jump in terms of aircraft complexity and systems management. Takeoff in the 152/172 (minus maybe a 180HP/CS 172 conversion) is pretty much a drive out, push the knobs all the way forward, and keep it straight affair. In the bigger Cessnas you have cowl flaps, fuel pumps, CS props, flaps you might actually use for takeoff...

I'm sure it seems like nothing to those who've already made the jump, but to the junior guys just starting on this stuff it's a big step.

[7ECA]

Also lets be honest a high wing Cessna is a simple airplane that anyone could jump into and fly if they have flown one before.

And that is the honest to god truth of the matter.

And yet, there are operators out there who treat the "larger" single engine piston pounder Cessnas as though they are something that require thousands of hours of study and training before one could ever be qualified to fly them.

Yes, they have CS props and yes that adds another lever, and a cowl flap lever. Every "newer" 172 is fuel injected, from the R model on, so fuel pumps are not some sort of unknown for pilots (not to mention anyone with a multi-engine rating would have seen the bloody things then). And 152s and 172s have flaps, and yes you can use them on takeoff too...

I remember hearing a story relayed to me by a guy I know, about someone he knew, who tried to get a job at a small company that operated PA-11s and PA-18s doing aerial photography and patrols. He did have less than one hundred hours of time, but plenty enough to be a competent tailwheel pilot when he applied, and the company rejected him, because "you don't have enough tailwheel experience, and we'd have to spend too much time training you." Seems to me that you just can't win with some people, and that the bar just keeps moving a little higher each time you think you've reached it.