Ame M - can I not get E after M?
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Ame M - can I not get E after M?
Ive been told that you can obtain your E license and then complete ics to also obtain your M. Is it not possible the other way around? If i wanted to go back for another year in college to study avionics can i not then go for my E after already ontaining an M?
Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
You can't get your license from simply going to school. You can't simply go to school and expect that to be credit towards your license.
If there is a school that gives you certified basic training for avionics in 1 year then take it. But I don't know of any unless you've already taken 2 years of their 3 year program.
I'm not sure if any school can give credit from another program... but I don't know. ( I.e. if you took the SAIT maintenance program and then went to Canadore and finished the 3rd year of their 3 year dual training course.)
No one can tell you you can't get a license...there are plenty of ways to obtain one...or two.
If there is a school that gives you certified basic training for avionics in 1 year then take it. But I don't know of any unless you've already taken 2 years of their 3 year program.
I'm not sure if any school can give credit from another program... but I don't know. ( I.e. if you took the SAIT maintenance program and then went to Canadore and finished the 3rd year of their 3 year dual training course.)
No one can tell you you can't get a license...there are plenty of ways to obtain one...or two.
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Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
if you have an E licence, then you can do ICS to get your M licence. what this means is ICS covers the basic training requirements, without accreditation. you will then need 48months of time/experience to be eligible to write your M licence. ICS does not have approval for a E licence basic course.Kiel wrote:Ive been told that you can obtain your E license and then complete ics to also obtain your M. Is it not possible the other way around? If i wanted to go back for another year in college to study avionics can i not then go for my E after already ontaining an M?
Mohawk college in YHM, has their program set up about the best I have seen so far - 1st year is a common core, then you can select avionics or mechanic or structures for the second year. if you want you can go back for a 3rd year and take one of the other 2, or even become a career student and spend your parents money for the 4th year and take the last trade. not sure what the accreditation scenario is for this, but I am going to assume it still equals up to 1800hrs (18months).
hope this helps,
- rubberboot
Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
If i'm not mistaken, AWM 566 states if you get a AME license with M1 and M2 rating, then you automatically have the E and S ratings as well. Why not get paid to get both license ratings instead of dumping money into a college?
You should probably contact your local TC office in order to figure out the exact details for doing so.
You should probably contact your local TC office in order to figure out the exact details for doing so.
Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
Nooòoooooo.
This has been beat to death here but...
M2 with documented E specific training and experience covers E specialialties but not M1...
and when did Mohawk start doing Avionics basic training? They're not listed yet.
This has been beat to death here but...
M2 with documented E specific training and experience covers E specialialties but not M1...
and when did Mohawk start doing Avionics basic training? They're not listed yet.
Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
He's right. If you get an M1 and M2 TCCA is not supposed to issue you anything else (except balloon) as the S and E privileges are included in the M licenses. You could get an M1 or M2 and still get the E and / or S, but not with both M ratings. All this being said, some TCCA offices will sometimes do whatever they please. I've got a guy I work with right now who renewed his license in 2012 and his license has a P43 component rating on it! That rating doesn't even exist any more, so I have no idea why TCCA elected to put that on his license.MrElm wrote:If i'm not mistaken, AWM 566 states if you get a AME license with M1 and M2 rating, then you automatically have the E and S ratings as well.
Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
MrElm is correct...
From AWM566,
Information Note:
Individuals who hold both an M1 and M2 rating will not be issued any additional ratings (e.g. E or S ratings), as those privileges are already held within the scope of the combined M1/M2 rating privileges.
From AWM566,
Information Note:
Individuals who hold both an M1 and M2 rating will not be issued any additional ratings (e.g. E or S ratings), as those privileges are already held within the scope of the combined M1/M2 rating privileges.
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Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
Well, last time I talked with them it was the route they were going... I guess it hasn't been approved yet. common first year, then individual trades the following year. I'll have to ask next time I visit the college...NeverBlue wrote:
and when did Mohawk start doing Avionics basic training? They're not listed yet.
Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
Blue, maybe you shouldnt inhale next time.NeverBlue wrote:Nooòoooooo.
This has been beat to death here but...
M2 with documented E specific training and experience covers E specialialties but not M1...
and when did Mohawk start doing Avionics basic training? They're not listed yet.
Yes, you go to school at an accredited institution and it IS credited towards your license, 1.5 years towards the 48 month total...
If you have your m1 you can get an e, but you have to take a 2 year course to meet the basic training requirements, currently, there is no other route to go.
If you have your m2 you can get an e, but you have to take a 2 year course to meet the basic training requirements. Currently, there is no other route to go
If you take the mechanical training, it is applicable to both m1 and m2. You can get either license first, such as an m1, then spend a year filling out your logbook, resubmit and walk away with an m1/m2 license
If you have an m1/m2 license you cannot get an e, and you don't 'need' the 'e' training. However, I have heard two schools of thought on the signing out of specialized tasks done under the e license, some people say you have to have verifiable training to do specialized maintenance, others say you do not need anything other than the license.
I did a year of avionics while building time towards my M1. What I learned was that if you want to be an 'e' guy go to 'e' school. Its easier and better. If you want to be a really good 'e' guy you need to specialize in 'e' tasks. I have me a few m1/m2 'e' guys and the specialists (due to experience) seem to be better all around 'e' 'engineers' while the m1/m2 guys are merely adequate.
Think about it carefully. A really good e guy is worth his weight in gold, while m1 and m1/2 guys are a dime a dozen... but you have to be a good 'e' guy and building the skills takes a lot longer than twisting wrenches.
Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
Having only an M2 gets you E privileges
Of course having M1/M2 does that as well
Having only M1 does not.
This is what was concluded on this sit the last time this was discussed.
If you look at the training and experience requirements for M2 you will see why. M2 has Avionics "systems" training required and I don't think M1 has that...I think.
I seem to remember TC will not issue you and E license if you have an M2 or M1/M2, but will if you have an M1 only...unless it has changed again.
Of course having M1/M2 does that as well
Having only M1 does not.
This is what was concluded on this sit the last time this was discussed.
If you look at the training and experience requirements for M2 you will see why. M2 has Avionics "systems" training required and I don't think M1 has that...I think.

I seem to remember TC will not issue you and E license if you have an M2 or M1/M2, but will if you have an M1 only...unless it has changed again.
Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
I don't believe that is correct.
The core training syllabi for m1 and m2 are the same, the only difference is the tasks applicable in your logbook.
The core training syllabi for m1 and m2 are the same, the only difference is the tasks applicable in your logbook.
Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
I don't think the tasks work like that.
I could be wrong, but I think that for any given license you need to complete 70% of the tasks applicable to the type of aircraft you work on. For m2 it's pretty easy, you need pretty much 70% of every ATA category completed. So I understand the root of your argument.
But m1 is more complicated. A guy working on king airs or pc12s or even 1900s needs an entirely different 70 percent than a guy servicing Cessna 172s. The biggest crossover between m1 and m2 is potentially the avionics and navigation. So an m1 guy might fill up 70% of the same tasks as the m2 guy if he's working the higher end of the weight class.
That's why I don't agree with the argument that there's a difference between the required training or task experience giving an m2 a virtual e. I've looked into this because I was thinking about doing the e without the training.
Without the core avionics training or an m1/m2 there is no way to an aca.
I will say in my experience an m1 with an e is a rare bird. Hardly useful to go the m1 e route and if you're going the m2 route you need to pretty much downgrade to obtain the m1 to get the e.
If you want to be an e, be an e and be good at it.
I could be wrong, but I think that for any given license you need to complete 70% of the tasks applicable to the type of aircraft you work on. For m2 it's pretty easy, you need pretty much 70% of every ATA category completed. So I understand the root of your argument.
But m1 is more complicated. A guy working on king airs or pc12s or even 1900s needs an entirely different 70 percent than a guy servicing Cessna 172s. The biggest crossover between m1 and m2 is potentially the avionics and navigation. So an m1 guy might fill up 70% of the same tasks as the m2 guy if he's working the higher end of the weight class.
That's why I don't agree with the argument that there's a difference between the required training or task experience giving an m2 a virtual e. I've looked into this because I was thinking about doing the e without the training.
Without the core avionics training or an m1/m2 there is no way to an aca.
I will say in my experience an m1 with an e is a rare bird. Hardly useful to go the m1 e route and if you're going the m2 route you need to pretty much downgrade to obtain the m1 to get the e.
If you want to be an e, be an e and be good at it.
Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
I seem to remember it's something to do with the large aircraft avionic systems tasks that make the difference.
Anyone out there have an M2 and E?
I know I've asked this to my guys on the floor but all of them have M1/M2 I think...it just makes sense for what we do.
And to play devil's advocate...why doesn't a company like CHC have only M1/M2 guys on tour?...instead of both M and E at almost every base...
Anyone out there have an M2 and E?
I know I've asked this to my guys on the floor but all of them have M1/M2 I think...it just makes sense for what we do.
And to play devil's advocate...why doesn't a company like CHC have only M1/M2 guys on tour?...instead of both M and E at almost every base...
Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
And I know what 566 says but you don't have E priviliges with just an M1/M2.
For example, you work for an AMO that has Pitot-Static on their scope of approvals... you simply having an M1/M2 does not make you eligible to sign off a repair and recert of an aircraft pitot-static system that you did....but simply having an E does.
Your company has radio systems on their scope of approvals....you having an M1/M2 does not make you eligible to sign off a repair and ramp test of the DME...having a E does.
For example, you work for an AMO that has Pitot-Static on their scope of approvals... you simply having an M1/M2 does not make you eligible to sign off a repair and recert of an aircraft pitot-static system that you did....but simply having an E does.
Your company has radio systems on their scope of approvals....you having an M1/M2 does not make you eligible to sign off a repair and ramp test of the DME...having a E does.
Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
NeverBlue wrote:And I know what 566 says but you don't have E priviliges with just an M1/M2.
For example, you work for an AMO that has Pitot-Static on their scope of approvals... you simply having an M1/M2 does not make you eligible to sign off a repair and recert of an aircraft pitot-static system that you did....but simply having an E does.
Your company has radio systems on their scope of approvals....you having an M1/M2 does not make you eligible to sign off a repair and ramp test of the DME...having a E does.
An M1 & M2 ACA with appropriate training and skill can sign a maintenance release on anything an E ACA can. This is of course AMO, company, and union (if applicable) restrictions notwithstanding.
As others have stated here, this issue has been beat to death and then some:
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 27&t=47440
Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
I said "eligible" to sign...which is the same as "privilege" to sign.
The E has the required training and experience...the M1/M2 does not and has to prove it.
There is no ACA required at all for an M1/M2 to be able to sign E specialized work.
The E has the required training and experience...the M1/M2 does not and has to prove it.
There is no ACA required at all for an M1/M2 to be able to sign E specialized work.
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Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
This topic comes up almost as much as the 12pt vs. 6 pt socket threads.......or the crimp vs. solder threads. There is a load of misinformation being posted here (as usual). I have an M2/E, see my posts on this thread:
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 27&t=95156
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 27&t=95156
Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
Well then don't show us another thread.
What makes them so right.
Anyone other than ourkid2000 have an M2/E?
I just got off the phone with TC...no shit... and he says M2 does not get E. License but can get E privileges. ...
I d'know...
What makes them so right.
Anyone other than ourkid2000 have an M2/E?
I just got off the phone with TC...no shit... and he says M2 does not get E. License but can get E privileges. ...
I d'know...

Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
We're actually only talking about one thing...what's the "load" of misinformation?...There is a load of misinformation being posted here
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Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
I was under the impression that my m1 license gives me e and s on m1 category aircraft (if the amo gives me the permission to use my m1 license that way).
My s license gives me my s on m1 and m2 category aircraft.
An m2 would give me s and e on m2 category aircraft..
So right now I'm working in a shop that only works on m1 category planes. So I can use either of my licenses depending on the job. But if I was to go to air canada/west jet/etc I could use my s license but not my m1 license.
My s license gives me my s on m1 and m2 category aircraft.
An m2 would give me s and e on m2 category aircraft..
So right now I'm working in a shop that only works on m1 category planes. So I can use either of my licenses depending on the job. But if I was to go to air canada/west jet/etc I could use my s license but not my m1 license.
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Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
I refuse to engage with you, but I will post my info from before:NeverBlue wrote:We're actually only talking about one thing...what's the "load" of misinformation?...There is a load of misinformation being posted here
Basically what I will say to this is pretty simple......You cannot do this. Well, not easily.As an M Student, I'm aiming for my M2 but as someone with extensive electronics experience I'm wondering how I'd go about getting my E license after? I could see that M2/E combo as being pretty useful.
The E license, like the S license, requires specific training to be proven before being issued. That's why you rarely see the courses offered together (CONA in Gander, NL in the only school that offers such an animal.....E and M together). So when you go to BCIT, or Centenial, or Canadaore, etc you pick one or the other.
So lets take your case for example. When you graduate, you will have met the basic requirements for the AME-M (M1 or M2) license but will have no training credit towards the E license. Even if you had two logbooks filled out and worked as an E apprentice for many years as you mention, Transport would never recognize your previous M training towards the E license. Know what I'm saying here?
There are two routes that usually lead to the M2/E. It usually starts with folks who complete an E course in school who then go on to complete the AME-M ICS course at home in their spare time. If they already have an E licence and then go on to apprentice as an M for at least a year.....they can then write the Transport Canada exams and apply for the M. There is no ICS E or S course at this time.
The second, and more vague, route is the individual who possesses an M1/M2. Folks who say they can sign out anything because they have an M1/M2 are a little misguided but I understand where this notion comes from because CARS states this: "Individuals who hold both an M1 and M2 rating will not be issued any additional ratings (e.g. E or S ratings), as those privileges are already held within the scope of the combined M1/M2 rating privileges."
Technically these people, if they can prove that they have appropriate training through their AMO, can sign out specialized E or S work (which would normally require an E or S license). It's just not so cut and dry.
Make sense? I know it's confusing but this is how it works.
Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
There are two routes that usually lead to the M2/E.
you say there are 2 ways to get an M2/E....and then go on to explain the M1/M2 as the second way....makes no senseThe second, and more vague, route is the individual who possesses an M1/M2.
Confusing is right...

You haven't really said anything different than what's already been said here.
Canadore offers the 3 year dual program now.
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Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
*deleted*, not worth it. Op contact me for any info you like.
Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?
Transport would never recognize your previous M training towards the E license.
That is simply not true. There are a number of common topics between M & E basic training. Not all...but a lot.
Acceptable training and approved training have much different criteria.
Anyone can get an E license with 1000 hrs. acceptable training and 48 months OJT.
Thus the 3 year M and E basic training programs out there.