Ame M - can I not get E after M?

[Kiel]

Ive been told that you can obtain your E license and then complete ics to also obtain your M. Is it not possible the other way around? If i wanted to go back for another year in college to study avionics can i not then go for my E after already ontaining an M?

[NeverBlue]

You can't get your license from simply going to school. You can't simply go to school and expect that to be credit towards your license.

If there is a school that gives you certified basic training for avionics in 1 year then take it. But I don't know of any unless you've already taken 2 years of their 3 year program.

I'm not sure if any school can give credit from another program... but I don't know. ( I.e. if you took the SAIT maintenance program and then went to Canadore and finished the 3rd year of their 3 year dual training course.)

No one can tell you you can't get a license...there are plenty of ways to obtain one...or two.

[rubberboot]

Ive been told that you can obtain your E license and then complete ics to also obtain your M. Is it not possible the other way around? If i wanted to go back for another year in college to study avionics can i not then go for my E after already ontaining an M?

if you have an E licence, then you can do ICS to get your M licence. what this means is ICS covers the basic training requirements, without accreditation. you will then need 48months of time/experience to be eligible to write your M licence. ICS does not have approval for a E licence basic course.

Mohawk college in YHM, has their program set up about the best I have seen so far - 1st year is a common core, then you can select avionics or mechanic or structures for the second year. if you want you can go back for a 3rd year and take one of the other 2, or even become a career student and spend your parents money for the 4th year and take the last trade. not sure what the accreditation scenario is for this, but I am going to assume it still equals up to 1800hrs (18months).

hope this helps,

- rubberboot

[MrElm]

If i'm not mistaken, AWM 566 states if you get a AME license with M1 and M2 rating, then you automatically have the E and S ratings as well. Why not get paid to get both license ratings instead of dumping money into a college?

You should probably contact your local TC office in order to figure out the exact details for doing so.

[NeverBlue]

Nooòoooooo.

This has been beat to death here but...

M2 with documented E specific training and experience covers E specialialties but not M1...

and when did Mohawk start doing Avionics basic training? They're not listed yet.

[robertw]

If i'm not mistaken, AWM 566 states if you get a AME license with M1 and M2 rating, then you automatically have the E and S ratings as well.

He's right. If you get an M1 and M2 TCCA is not supposed to issue you anything else (except balloon) as the S and E privileges are included in the M licenses. You could get an M1 or M2 and still get the E and / or S, but not with both M ratings. All this being said, some TCCA offices will sometimes do whatever they please. I've got a guy I work with right now who renewed his license in 2012 and his license has a P43 component rating on it! That rating doesn't even exist any more, so I have no idea why TCCA elected to put that on his license.

[groncher]

MrElm is correct...

From AWM566,

Information Note:

Individuals who hold both an M1 and M2 rating will not be issued any additional ratings (e.g. E or S ratings), as those privileges are already held within the scope of the combined M1/M2 rating privileges.

[rubberboot]

and when did Mohawk start doing Avionics basic training? They're not listed yet.

Well, last time I talked with them it was the route they were going... I guess it hasn't been approved yet. common first year, then individual trades the following year. I'll have to ask next time I visit the college...

[DonutHole]

Nooòoooooo.

This has been beat to death here but...

M2 with documented E specific training and experience covers E specialialties but not M1...

and when did Mohawk start doing Avionics basic training? They're not listed yet.

Blue, maybe you shouldnt inhale next time.

Yes, you go to school at an accredited institution and it IS credited towards your license, 1.5 years towards the 48 month total...

If you have your m1 you can get an e, but you have to take a 2 year course to meet the basic training requirements, currently, there is no other route to go.

If you have your m2 you can get an e, but you have to take a 2 year course to meet the basic training requirements. Currently, there is no other route to go

If you take the mechanical training, it is applicable to both m1 and m2. You can get either license first, such as an m1, then spend a year filling out your logbook, resubmit and walk away with an m1/m2 license

If you have an m1/m2 license you cannot get an e, and you don't 'need' the 'e' training. However, I have heard two schools of thought on the signing out of specialized tasks done under the e license, some people say you have to have verifiable training to do specialized maintenance, others say you do not need anything other than the license.

I did a year of avionics while building time towards my M1. What I learned was that if you want to be an 'e' guy go to 'e' school. Its easier and better. If you want to be a really good 'e' guy you need to specialize in 'e' tasks. I have me a few m1/m2 'e' guys and the specialists (due to experience) seem to be better all around 'e' 'engineers' while the m1/m2 guys are merely adequate.

Think about it carefully. A really good e guy is worth his weight in gold, while m1 and m1/2 guys are a dime a dozen... but you have to be a good 'e' guy and building the skills takes a lot longer than twisting wrenches.

[NeverBlue]

Having only an M2 gets you E privileges

Of course having M1/M2 does that as well

Having only M1 does not.

This is what was concluded on this sit the last time this was discussed.

If you look at the training and experience requirements for M2 you will see why. M2 has Avionics "systems" training required and I don't think M1 has that...I think.

I seem to remember TC will not issue you and E license if you have an M2 or M1/M2, but will if you have an M1 only...unless it has changed again.

[DonutHole]

I don't believe that is correct.

The core training syllabi for m1 and m2 are the same, the only difference is the tasks applicable in your logbook.

[NeverBlue]

Yes...it's in the tasks...

[DonutHole]

I don't think the tasks work like that.

I could be wrong, but I think that for any given license you need to complete 70% of the tasks applicable to the type of aircraft you work on. For m2 it's pretty easy, you need pretty much 70% of every ATA category completed. So I understand the root of your argument.

But m1 is more complicated. A guy working on king airs or pc12s or even 1900s needs an entirely different 70 percent than a guy servicing Cessna 172s. The biggest crossover between m1 and m2 is potentially the avionics and navigation. So an m1 guy might fill up 70% of the same tasks as the m2 guy if he's working the higher end of the weight class.

That's why I don't agree with the argument that there's a difference between the required training or task experience giving an m2 a virtual e. I've looked into this because I was thinking about doing the e without the training.

Without the core avionics training or an m1/m2 there is no way to an aca.

I will say in my experience an m1 with an e is a rare bird. Hardly useful to go the m1 e route and if you're going the m2 route you need to pretty much downgrade to obtain the m1 to get the e.

If you want to be an e, be an e and be good at it.

[NeverBlue]

I seem to remember it's something to do with the large aircraft avionic systems tasks that make the difference.

Anyone out there have an M2 and E?

I know I've asked this to my guys on the floor but all of them have M1/M2 I think...it just makes sense for what we do.

And to play devil's advocate...why doesn't a company like CHC have only M1/M2 guys on tour?...instead of both M and E at almost every base...

[NeverBlue]

And I know what 566 says but you don't have E priviliges with just an M1/M2.

For example, you work for an AMO that has Pitot-Static on their scope of approvals... you simply having an M1/M2 does not make you eligible to sign off a repair and recert of an aircraft pitot-static system that you did....but simply having an E does.

Your company has radio systems on their scope of approvals....you having an M1/M2 does not make you eligible to sign off a repair and ramp test of the DME...having a E does.

[MrElm]

And I know what 566 says but you don't have E priviliges with just an M1/M2.

For example, you work for an AMO that has Pitot-Static on their scope of approvals... you simply having an M1/M2 does not make you eligible to sign off a repair and recert of an aircraft pitot-static system that you did....but simply having an E does.

Your company has radio systems on their scope of approvals....you having an M1/M2 does not make you eligible to sign off a repair and ramp test of the DME...having a E does.

An M1 & M2 ACA with appropriate training and skill can sign a maintenance release on anything an E ACA can. This is of course AMO, company, and union (if applicable) restrictions notwithstanding.

As others have stated here, this issue has been beat to death and then some:
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 27&t=47440

[NeverBlue]

I said "eligible" to sign...which is the same as "privilege" to sign.

The E has the required training and experience...the M1/M2 does not and has to prove it.

There is no ACA required at all for an M1/M2 to be able to sign E specialized work.

[ourkid2000]

This topic comes up almost as much as the 12pt vs. 6 pt socket threads.......or the crimp vs. solder threads. There is a load of misinformation being posted here (as usual). I have an M2/E, see my posts on this thread:

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 27&t=95156

[NeverBlue]

Well then don't show us another thread.

What makes them so right.

Anyone other than ourkid2000 have an M2/E?

I just got off the phone with TC...no shit... and he says M2 does not get E. License but can get E privileges. ...

I d'know...

[NeverBlue]

 There is a load of misinformation being posted here

We're actually only talking about one thing...what's the "load" of misinformation?...