Atawapiskat

[HiLo]

For those flying the pop, chips and insulin up in that area, is the situation up there really as bad as they make it seem in the papers? Also, now that the health food charters have been converted to mental health charters, is the aviation business booming?

[lownslow]

YAT is never as bad as the papers make it look. For many reasons it's not a place I'd ever want to live, but the news folks really do pick the worst of it to report on.

[pdw]

There's weather records now at CYAT (since last year Feb).

Minus 25.6C at 7am Saturday April 9 2016, Windchill -30C.

[HiLo]

YAT is never as bad as the papers make it look. For many reasons it's not a place I'd ever want to live, but the news folks really do pick the worst of it to report on.

Care to elaborate?

[awitzke]

YAT is never as bad as the papers make it look. For many reasons it's not a place I'd ever want to live, but the news folks really do pick the worst of it to report on.

I'd call a suicide pact of 13 children pretty dire.

[anofly]

That is dire. Conditions in general, are shocking, many houses are heavily damaged... .. and housing is in short supply. many live in sheds they have built out beside a house.

[HiLo]

Which begs the question: why not move to civilisation?

[DSoup]

Which begs the question: why not move to civilisation?

If whatever city you were in had one block with shitty conditions (no utilities, runing water or sewers, roads, schools etc), and the government that you paid taxes to told you to either move to the rich part of the city that you couldn't afford to live in or get out - would you be content with that?

I wouldn't

[GyvAir]

Which begs the question: why not move to civilisation?

Yeah, if I were in their position, I’d likely do that.
Put the house on the market, call the moving van in. Pick up and pack up, lock stock and barrel and move to civilization. Tap into my massive network of contacts there to land that lucrative job. Buy a shiny new house with the proceeds of my old one. Enroll the kids in a nice friendly school where they’re gonna seamlessly fit right in. Just start out fresh. Everything should work out grand!

[Rockie]

Which begs the question: why not move to civilisation?

Well that solves that. Maybe in your next post you could take care of the Middle East situation....

[pdw]

YAT is never as bad as the papers make it look. For many reasons it's not a place I'd ever want to live, but the news folks really do pick the worst of it to report on.

Yes, there needs to be some good news from there. Hoping the professionals flying up there are able to help.

[co-joe]

Which begs the question: why not move to civilisation?

If whatever city you were in had one block with shitty conditions (no utilities, runing water or sewers, roads, schools etc), and the government that you paid taxes to told you to either move to the rich part of the city that you couldn't afford to live in or get out - would you be content with that?

I wouldn't

Except they don't pay taxes, we do.

[NunavutPA-12]

Has anyone on here actually LIVED on a reserve (northern reserve that is - the southern ones are almost "normal")?

I didn't think so.

The media never asks the hard questions of native "leaders". Many of the problems on reserves are self-inflicted and some individuals suffer greatly as a result. Traditional values in a modern world place everyone on the reserve at a disadvantage. There is very little in the way of problem-solving by the community as a whole. Instead it's always a case of asking the feds to "throw more money at the problem". Obviously, that has never worked and never will. Now there will be more money going their way, to be "managed" by the band (since our prime minister has decided on a hands-off management style for tax-payer money). I think the chief will be calling his car dealer to get an up-grade on his newest big truck.

The problems will persist, of course, but the media attention will die down, giving everyone the impression that "well, that worked, everything must be okay now".

[flyinhigh]

Now I will agree that if indeed kids are actually making these packs, it is a crying shame. But instead of saying how can they do this to themselves, we need to say why hasn't it changed.

Below is a link to Ezra Levant on his coverage of attawapiskat in 2013. Yes he is out there, however he is the ONLY media individual that went on the record and called out the Chiefs of Attawapiskat for there lack of priorities.

Maybe, just maybe if the locals in the community didn't try to run out the auditors and welcomed them and the help that would have come with this we would not have the issues of today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPhzleo-svc

[Stu Pidasso]

You got that right Nunavut, I too have spent more time than I care to remember around places like this. I bet the Chief is a massive crook and this is nothing more than him putting his nose in the bottomless tax trough.

[bobcaygeon]

It's been +50 years of the same problem.
These places will never become economic centres thus the problems will not go away.
As a right wing supporter I can't believe I am actually agreeing with something Chretien is saying but it's true.

Our recent immigrants whether they be the recent Syrian immigrants or the steady stream of people from South East Asia, are settling in economic centres, not just the major cities, and finding employment and contributing to the local economies. In some cases they are actually "saving " communities that otherwise would be dying from the exodus of "original" Canadians to major centres.
This is not new. Just about every small town in rural Canada has had a restaurant that has a Chinese and Canadian menu.

As for connection to history and the land, I'm pretty confident that Syrians and Filipino immigrants are not moving to Carman, MB because they want be connected to the thousands of years of history from their past. These people are making huge changes in order to improve their lives. I see no difference.

[av8ts]

Which begs the question: why not move to civilisation?

Yeah, if I were in their position, I’d likely do that.
Put the house on the market, call the moving van in. Pick up and pack up, lock stock and barrel and move to civilization. Tap into my massive network of contacts there to land that lucrative job. Buy a shiny new house with the proceeds of my old one. Enroll the kids in a nice friendly school where they’re gonna seamlessly fit right in. Just start out fresh. Everything should work out grand!

People do it every day. Leave the small town where there is no work and move to where the work is. Some people move halfway around the world to find a job or better life. Free post-secondary education and with most companies having a quota of non-white males to fill I don't understand still living in these reserves.

[crazyaviator]

Has anyone on here actually LIVED on a reserve (northern reserve that is - the southern ones are almost "normal")?

Yes, I have and can write a book about the aboriginal situation that some university professor is clueless about !

[Rookie50]

Has anyone on here actually LIVED on a reserve (northern reserve that is - the southern ones are almost "normal")?

Yes, I have and can write a book about the aboriginal situation that some university professor is clueless about !

Maybe you should. Maybe we need to read it. Seriously.

[Clearwater]

Actually "they" do in most cases pay taxes. In almost all cases income is only tax exempt for a registered Indian if the work is carried out on a reserve. Considering the amount of on reserve employment available there is not a whole of of tax free earning going on.

Pretty much the only thing that First Nations people have left is their land. It's not the greatest land (thanks to the government) but it is their land.

If you were in those shoes would you be in a big hurry to load up the car and head South in hope of finding the good life?

Spending some time at a reserve airport or living at the pilot house is not quite the same as really living on a reserve. I think that people jump to conclusions about things they don't fully understand. Let's try to drop the stereotype about the Chief with the new truck.

[trey kule]

Has anyone on here actually LIVED on a reserve (northern reserve that is - the southern ones are almost "normal")?

Yep, and like the others, I agree with you. The problem is the media plays to the chief's tune and those who know nothing else but what they see in the media are clueless. Like the University types who spend three days on a reserve listening to stories and then return to share their deep wisdom.

[NotDirty!]

Actually "they" do in most cases pay taxes. In almost all cases income is only tax exempt for a registered Indian if the work is carried out on a reserve. Considering the amount of on reserve employment available there is not a whole of of tax free earning going on.

If the "they" referred to earlier was the people of Attawapiskat, then "they" do almost all fall under the exemption you mentioned.

I think that the point that many of us who have been to these reserves is that while the conditions in Attawapiskat are terrible, they are not substantially different from the other northern Ontario reserves. Ontario's Ministry of Transportation operates 29 remote airports on Ontario reserves; I have been to all of them, more than once, and in some cases many times. While some are definitely better than others, even the best remote reserves suffer from problems that are unheard of in the south. I had, in fact, always considered Attawapiskat one of the "better" reserves, as the people I met there seemed friendly, and seemed to be proud of their community. So perhaps this is why YAT makes it into the news more frequently than most of the others - because they are a "good enough" community to recognize that they have a problem.

Just about anything can be a problem on a reserve, and things that might be an easy fix in a more densely populated location, may be nearly impossible when you live in a place where the only way in or out of the community 10 months of the year is by aeroplane. You can't just pop over to the local Home Depot when something breaks in your house, and even inexpensive items to purchase become cost prohibitive to ship by air. In any case, new things, such as vehicles and houses, don't remain "new" for very long on a reserve. Roads are unpaved, which increases wear and tear, vandalism is rampant (think back to your teenage years, and think what kind of trouble you would have got up to if there was literally nothing else to do in your town), and the lack of availability of some of the most basic items leads to some "creative" home-engineered/homemade solutions.

Various "solutions" to these problems have been tried over the years; most have only made the situation worse. Cronyism is a major problem, and the vicious circle of joblessness, poverty, and depression holds back far too many people. There is the huge juxtaposition of traditional ways of life with modern conveniences, that helps to fuel this problem: the reserve does not need to be an economically viable town, because the people can follow their traditional means of hunting, fishing, and living off the land, so do not require a modern source of income; but the desire to follow a modern way of life with commercial goods and store bought foods requires currency. There is not enough employment available to allow the working age adults to have jobs. Because they don't have jobs, many people are forced to live on welfare. A lack of direction, and no end in sight can lead to depression, which only deepens the social problems.

If you were a teenager, faced with this life, you too may suffer from depression, and see suicide as the only way out.

The system itself is part of the problem. I recall the story of a young adult who came to work part time at the airport as an agent for one of the airlines that served the community. He ended up having to quit the job, because he could not afford to live in that way; once he had an income, he was no longer eligible for welfare, and after paying rent, etc. he had less money left over than when he was collecting welfare. In his community, those who were gainfully employed had to pay much more than those who relied on government money. This type of system removes the incentive to get a job, if it is going to require work and end up costing you more than not working at all!

While I certainly don't condone the actions taken, you can start to understand the reasoning behind it. I also recognize that the solution is not to simply throw money at the problem and hope that it goes away; the solution is probably also not going to be found in a 500 word post on an anonymous forum written by an outsider with a vague understanding of the situation, and just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

[Canoehead]

I think much of the blame has to lay with the parents, as a casualty of mistakes made in the past by government and band leadership.

I think it's crazy to raise a child in an environment that is toxic (metaphorically and in some cases literally), in the middle of a bog in the year 2016, given everything we know about the issues in these environments. It's their home, and I respect that. But really, I think I would be doing everything in my power to get my children out of there to provide a better future for them, just as many immigrant parents are doing for their children. No, it's not gonna be cheap, but life isn't fair or cheap.

I do feel for the families who are experiencing this hell up there, but I cannot change it for them. Only they can affect their destiny. No amount of free money from the government is gonna do it.

Just my opinion.

[Roar]

[/quote]
In his community, those who were gainfully employed had to pay much more than those who relied on government money. This type of system removes the incentive to get a job, if it is going to require work and end up costing you more than not working at all!

[/quote]


That sounds just like what the NDP are trying to do in Alberta.

[Longtimer]

That is dire. Conditions in general, are shocking, many houses are heavily damaged... .. and housing is in short supply. many live in sheds they have built out beside a house.

What damaged the houses? People, neglect or weather?