Seaplane regulation changes proposed

[valleyboy]

Maybe they are starting to realize that it's very flawed. Egress training is actually pretty useless the way it's proposed. No passengers will be trained and the pilot is of no use help in evacuation of the aircraft if submerged and upsidedown. He will be looking after number one and won't be helping anyone.

The "dunk" training from my info does not give a person a chance to actually experience the water in such a manner as to not be fighting to hold one's breath. Not much muscle memory built there. They need an air supply for a few cycles to give them time to get the mechanics down and overcome the anxiety. I'm a diver so I know the issues with this but a secure full face mask should do the trick and prevent embolism issues.

This has been a poorly thought out issue. Ironically TC is not certifying any wet egress training to this point. They recognize it but are not certifying it. That must tell us something.

[Lost Lake]

All these opinions are great. However, as an ops manager for a small float operation, where is the "official" rules, regulations, time line, specifications for this. We just bought 4 of the tried and true thin yellow jackets which, I don't think will last a season of constant use. I understand that the new inflatables must Not be water ativativated, but little else is available.

[marlin]

http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2019/ ... 9-eng.html
This is the February 2019 amendment.

The flotation device may be a life preserver, an individual flotation device or a personal flotation device as defined in Chapter 551 of the Airworthiness Manual (AWM)

Chapter 551: https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-servi ... tions-cars

http://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2020/2020 ... 0-eng.html
September 2020 COVID update, which says in part:

The amendment delays the coming-into-force date for the requirement to wear a PFD on Subpart 703 operations when the aircraft is operated on or over water until June 6, 2021.

[ragbagflyer]

All these opinions are great. However, as an ops manager for a small float operation, where is the "official" rules, regulations, time line, specifications for this. We just bought 4 of the tried and true thin yellow jackets which, I don't think will last a season of constant use. I understand that the new inflatables must Not be water ativativated, but little else is available.

Get a manually activated mustang MIT 100. It meets the criteria.

[Vern]

All these opinions are great. However, as an ops manager for a small float operation, where is the "official" rules, regulations, time line, specifications for this. We just bought 4 of the tried and true thin yellow jackets which, I don't think will last a season of constant use. I understand that the new inflatables must Not be water ativativated, but little else is available.

Get a manually activated mustang MIT 100. It meets the criteria.

Transport has made it clear to me that Mustang does not make a model that is acceptable because it does not have a TSO number. Even if the MIT 100 did have a TSO number it only provides 28lbs of buoyancy and TC requires 35.

As far as I can tell the options (aside from the sealed ones we've all been using forever and the belt pouch ones that meet TSO-C13) are the EAM Bravo and a couple different ones from Switlik.

I'm interested to hear if anyone has heard different from TC but for those buying Mustang and similar manually inflated PFD's, they aren't approved to be used in any aircraft.

[scdriver]

All these opinions are great. However, as an ops manager for a small float operation, where is the "official" rules, regulations, time line, specifications for this. We just bought 4 of the tried and true thin yellow jackets which, I don't think will last a season of constant use. I understand that the new inflatables must Not be water ativativated, but little else is available.

Get a manually activated mustang MIT 100. It meets the criteria.

Transport has made it clear to me that Mustang does not make a model that is acceptable because it does not have a TSO number. Even if the MIT 100 did have a TSO number it only provides 28lbs of buoyancy and TC requires 35.

As far as I can tell the options (aside from the sealed ones we've all been using forever and the belt pouch ones that meet TSO-C13) are the EAM Bravo and a couple different ones from Switlik.

I'm interested to hear if anyone has heard different from TC but for those buying Mustang and similar manually inflated PFD's, they aren't approved to be used in any aircraft.

From my interpretation of TC's regs for survival gear, the 35lbs of buoyancy applies to life preservers, but not PFD's. See below.
https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-servi ... rs#551_403

UL1180 Type II is approved for PFD's, and this mustang (https://mustangsurvival.ca/collections/ ... -md3153-02) does say "TC Type II approved." I assume that means it fits the approval in question but can't be 100% sure without seeing label.

[Vern]

You could be right about the type II PFD's being approved even if they don't say UL1180 but that one is hydrostatic, you need one that is manually inflated. I was able to find one manual Mustang model that says Type II UL1180 which is a PFD for law enforcement, but it is discontinued.

I called Mustang and they said they don't currently make anything that's TSO'd or UL1180 Type II with manual inflation. I'm still pretty sure that the EAM Bravo and the ones from Switlik are the only ones that are actually acceptable...

[scdriver]

You could be right about the type II PFD's being approved even if they don't say UL1180 but that one is hydrostatic, you need one that is manually inflated. I was able to find one manual Mustang model that says Type II UL1180 which is a PFD for law enforcement, but it is discontinued.

I called Mustang and they said they don't currently make anything that's TSO'd or UL1180 Type II with manual inflation. I'm still pretty sure that the EAM Bravo and the ones from Switlik are the only ones that are actually acceptable...

Yup certainly right about the manual inflation, I actually didn’t notice that one was auto. I think there are going to be quite a few operators that end up with unapproved pfd’s when the time comes around to having to wear them. Not too easy to track down what’s acceptable and what isn’t...

[Vern]

Yeah, I have talked to a few friends that fly in different parts of the country than me. One said that the company bought Mustang's for the pilots. Unless they managed to get a hold of that discontinued law enforcement one which is the MD3085 LE, they likely don't even realize that they aren't allowed to be used.

It took me a couple hours between reading the airworthiness manual, calling my TC inspector and calling manufactures to figure it all out. They didn't make it super easy to figure out which models are approved but the info is there. I just figured I'd share to save someone from buying something unapproved. Most operators don't have money to spare right now.

[sunk]

I believe the mustang minimalist should meet the new npa when they are released, also the onyx-16. Can’t beat the two’s swirl ik, they are not cheap.

[partsguy.ca]

Its been a few months since the last entry on this Thread. Has any commercial operator got the nob from TCCA on a Model that will pass the sniff test?

I spent some time today trying to cross check Brands and Approvals, and its a maze of approvals.

Thanks.

[sunk]

Call Dss aviation in Nova Scotia. Ask for aBlake as he is up on the requirements.

[digits_]

Its been a few months since the last entry on this Thread. Has any commercial operator got the nob from TCCA on a Model that will pass the sniff test?

I spent some time today trying to cross check Brands and Approvals, and its a maze of approvals.

Thanks.

These guys do: https://www.aerospaceservices.ca/2021/0 ... evice-ifd/

[scdriver]

As stated above, the Harbour ones are approved. The Mustang minimalist belt pack is also approved for commercial operators, there are a few companies using them. There are other models approved for use that are for youth only as well.

[Vern]

I am using the Switlik Aviator which meets TSO C13F.

For passengers we are using this one which is TSO C13E: https://tulmarstore.com/products/consta ... -heli-vest