Flying commercially in Canada without a Canadian pilot’s licence

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/flying-c ... k-articles

We'll never agree on the foreign pilot issue but I've got to give you points for the Chewbacca pic that accompanied your blog post!

Sunwing is hiring Canadian pilots again. No artificial restrictions. Let the good times roll.

WJ and AC expanding at LGW as well.

Gilles said

...when it began to allow foreign licenced pilots to fly for Canadian commercial operators in Canadian registered aircraft...

No other country I know of allows this practice.

In 1986 I obtained my FAA commercial pilots licence with multi engine and IFR ratings. I then worked as a commercial pilot in Haiti until I immigrated to Canada in 1990. In 1990, I added a float rating.

paddy wrote:Gilles said

...when it began to allow foreign licenced pilots to fly for Canadian commercial operators in Canadian registered aircraft...

No other country I know of allows this practice.

In 1986 I obtained my FAA commercial pilots licence with multi engine and IFR ratings. I then worked as a commercial pilot in Haiti until I immigrated to Canada in 1990. In 1990, I added a float rating.

Hmmm... I guess you are quoting Gilles words.
I don't think there are and there was any flight schools in Haiti. Obviously some countries don't have training facilities or government agencies that deliver the national paperwork, pilots have to go into foreign countries in order to get a pilot license.

I think in Canada, right now, there are hundred of Chinese and Middle Eastern student pilots doing their training, when they will be done, they will go back and fly for their countries.

Canada delivers licenses, we have plenty of training facilities, add to that a huge list of operators / airlines and there are pilots available on the market for upgrades.

"No other country I know of allows this practice"

I think he means that:

https://www.thestar.com/business/2015/0 ... rkers.html

The president of Sunwing admitted in 2015 :

He said Sunwing received 900 applications this year and interviewed 70 candidates...

And some pilots here still think it is normal to accept temporary foreign pilots in Canada.

paddy wrote:Gilles said

...when it began to allow foreign licenced pilots to fly for Canadian commercial operators in Canadian registered aircraft...

No other country I know of allows this practice.

In 1986 I obtained my FAA commercial pilots licence with multi engine and IFR ratings. I then worked as a commercial pilot in Haiti until I immigrated to Canada in 1990. In 1990, I added a float rating.

Haiti is one of the few countries in the world whose Civil Aviation authority does not issue pilot licences. It does not have the resources, the technical know-how or the personnel for that. ALL pilots working in Haiti have a foreign licence, without exception.

You really want to compare Canada to Haiti ?

I'm a Canadian and I've been at the controls of aircraft in many countries, that were registered to those countries. I don't see why the other way around should be banned.

porcsord wrote:I'm a Canadian and I've been at the controls of aircraft in many countries, that were registered to those countries. I don't see why the other way around should be banned.

You flew foreign registered aircraft operating commercial flights for a foreign operator in the operators' country with your Canadian licence ?

Name those countries please.

you have seen the local talent pool as an expat. there is a reason for high wages and tax free dollars in the regions where you worked. if you don't get the difference all I can do is Palm face. Expats are needed in Canada, it's a lack of kids willing to make coffee and watch children that drive that need though, not experienced and knowledgeable pilots willing to drive an alright airplane for a reasonable dollar

Vietnam for one.

Edited to add:

1) Does the airplane fly any differently with a different registry?

2) I have seen some of the talent in foreign countries that lead to very high wages for expats, I've also seen countless incompetent fuckwits with Canadian licenses.

porcsord wrote:Vietnam for one.

Edited to add:

1) Does the airplane fly any differently with a different registry?

2) I have seen some of the talent in foreign countries that lead to very high wages for expats, I've also seen countless incompetent fuckwits with Canadian licenses.

"Vietnam" is the "many countries" ? Ok.

Now I will reply to your original question as to why we should not allow foreign-licenced pilots to fly Canadian registered aircraft commercially for Canadian Operators:

Because the foreign licensed pilots who have been flying Canadian registered aircraft for Canadian airlines for the last 10 years with a Transport Canada issued FLVC were mainly from:

Belgium
the Czech Republic
France
Germany
the Netherlands
Slovakia
and the United Kingdom

and it so happens that the Civil Aviation authorities of

Belgium
the Czech Republic
France
Germany
the Netherlands
Slovakia
and the United Kingdom

do not allow pilots with Canadian licences to fly their own country's commercial aircraft with a Canadian licence.

So Transport Canada is giving to the pilots of those countries a privilege that the Civil Aviation authorities of those same countries do not give to Canadian licenced pilots.

What these countries do allow, is if a foreign-licensed pilot is hired by a European airline, they may issue to that pilot a non renewable FLVC, once, valid for a period of one year, to allow that pilot to make a living while preparing his European licence. It is never renewed.

Canada on the other hand, has been issuing blanket renewable FLVCs to foreign-licenced pilots for several years in a row. Some foreign pilots have flown in Canada for several consecutive years on a Foreign Licence with a Transport Canada issued FLVC.

AT about to have another tough quarter?

How's Sunwing's plan of expansion going for next winter?

I'd be shocked if anybody did turn a profit this winter on the "down south" destinations, but we'll never know except for TS.

Think sunwing eeked out a profit Jim. You can look through the financials of TUI to find out.

Not sure of expansion. Think we're hiring to get rid of costly wet leases but don't quote me.

Sent a complaint to my MP, still waiting for a response......stby for new atis message

Gilles Hudicourt wrote:

porcsord wrote:I'm a Canadian and I've been at the controls of aircraft in many countries, that were registered to those countries. I don't see why the other way around should be banned.

You flew foreign registered aircraft operating commercial flights for a foreign operator in the operators' country with your Canadian licence ?

Name those countries please.

There are plenty of places. Any ASSI governed country for one. Outside of that a validation to fly on a foreign license is still common practice around the world, particularly in developing countries for temporary contracts.

I'm continually surprised by the victim mentality among some canadian pilots. get over yourself.

munzil wrote:
I'm continually surprised by the victim mentality among some canadian pilots. get over yourself.

Riiiight..... Like if you would happily stand looking down at your feet, hands in your pockets, if your own job was in jeopardy due to foreigners willing to take it at a much lower wages and conditions.

Ok, forget about wages and conditions. Imagine yourself out of work in your own country and seeing foreigners taking jobs you are yourself fully qualified to do! I am sure that would make you and your family feel good as well.
I am retracting my last sentence if you bring reciprocity as a balance.




Empathy can be learned, try it one day.

TG wrote:

munzil wrote: I am retracting my last sentence if you bring reciprocity as a balance..

I'm a PR card holder here with Canadian wife and son, from New Zealand where plenty of Canadians immigrate. I'm amazed at the amount of people that still think I am 'taking away' Canadian jobs.

There are 9,475 New Zealanders living in Canada which is 0.0221% of the population

There are 7,770 Canadians living in NZ which is 0.2119% of the population

Almost 10 x more Canadians live in NZ as a percentage of the population (let alone the land mass)

I'll let the numbers speak for themselves. In my country a Canadian has 10 x more chance of taking our jobs than a new zealander here. There's your reciprocity and then some.

You have all my empathy. I know exactly what it is like for 'foreigners' to come into our country and take our jobs.

I'm also sure all the african, middle eastern and asian countries also have empathy for you considering the huge amount of westerners flying in their countries. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Unless of course you prefer to just have a victim mentality.

The problem isn't permanent residences, that's how the immigration system works. Welcome to Canada by the way!

What people have an issue with is Temporary Foreign Workers. People that have no intention to stay and are only here because the company they work for claims they can't find adequate Canadian workers. That claim is typically made because the employer offers sub-standard wages and working conditions that fails to attract Canadian workers. There's plenty of 703/704 captains making 70-100+ grand a year and don't want the pay cut to 50 grand to fly a 737, or 35 grand to fly a Q400.

goingnowherefast wrote:The problem isn't permanent residences, that's how the immigration system works. Welcome to Canada by the way!

What people have an issue with is Temporary Foreign Workers. People that have no intention to stay and are only here because the company they work for claims they can't find adequate Canadian workers. That claim is typically made because the employer offers sub-standard wages and working conditions that fails to attract Canadian workers. There's plenty of 703/704 captains making 70-100+ grand a year and don't want the pay cut to 50 grand to fly a 737, or 35 grand to fly a Q400.

Well, though I inherently empathize with you that the way the world in aviation works. I am one of those that have left a turboprop command job to go jet and I am earning about 1/3rd of what I used to. It disgusts me to be honest. But it is also my own choice. It would be the choice that I would have to make in any other country as well.

Frankly we have it very good here in Canada. Having worked south of the border, the way pilots were treated there makes Canada look like an aviation paradise.

Everyone keeps talking about those foreign workers that are here temporarily. I have heard of them before, but don't know anyone here now. I can tell you from the opposite side of the fence that out of the 12 or so countries I have been in, this country is one of the hardest to break into as a foreigner. The amount of companies that frown on your experience because you don't have Canadian experience (read not Canadian) and are just not interested is everywhere. I almost gave up on an 10 year aviation career here because of the blatant distrust of foreigners.

I really don't think you have anything to worry about.

What you are in fact saying is akin to "its ok for me to have my eyes gouged out with a pointy stick because you had your leg hacked off with a rusty pen knife".

Employees' suspicion of you - well or ill founded - is not in any way related to Canadian airlines importing pilots without permanent residency in Canada to fly for them. If anything, you should be supportive of the arguments presented here: as a permanent resident you yourself are being seriously disadvantaged by foreign pilots being given temporary work permits to hold flight positions that you are legally entitled to hold.