New hire bids

[Turboprops]

Today another class of 19 started. The following positions were offered:

3 YYZ RJ CA
4 YYZ RJ FO
4 YYZ Q4 CA
2 YYZ Q4 FO

2 YUL RJ FO
4 YUL Q4 FO

0 EMB Positions

Next class in 3 weeks.

How many people from the class actually took the captain direct entry position?

I understand that it’s an option for every ATPL joining the classes, but not an obligation?

Zero

[kiaszceski]

.

[kiaszceski]

Today another class of 19 started. The following positions were offered:

3 YYZ RJ CA
4 YYZ RJ FO
4 YYZ Q4 CA
2 YYZ Q4 FO

2 YUL RJ FO
4 YUL Q4 FO

0 EMB Positions

Next class in 3 weeks.

How many people from the class actually took the captain direct entry position?

I understand that it’s an option for every ATPL joining the classes, but not an obligation?

Zero

What did they take if they didn’t take the DEC?

[Turboprops]

How many people from the class actually took the captain direct entry position?

I understand that it’s an option for every ATPL joining the classes, but not an obligation?

Zero

What did they take if they didn’t take the DEC?

The CA spots become FO spots if no one wants DEC. So all 19 took FO position

[ellinas]

Zero

What did they take if they didn’t take the DEC?

The CA spots become FO spots if no one wants DEC. So all 19 took FO position

So is Jazz going to have an issue with staffing their planes? With Porter offering better pay and atmosphere will some of the Jazz guys move?

Is it going to get to a desperate situation for them or are there enough 750-1000 hour guys applying.

[flyingcanuck]

What did they take if they didn’t take the DEC?

The CA spots become FO spots if no one wants DEC. So all 19 took FO position

So is Jazz going to have an issue with staffing their planes? With Porter offering better pay and atmosphere will some of the Jazz guys move?

Is it going to get to a desperate situation for them or are there enough 750-1000 hour guys applying.

Desperate for captains eventually, not FOs

[rudder]

Is it going to get to a desperate situation for them or are there enough 750-1000 hour guys applying.

750-1000 hour pilots are typically 12-24 months removed from getting their ATPL. And in many cases, that same time frame removed from having the operational experience necessary to pass the upgrade training.

What Jazz needs is 2000-3000+ hour pilots with ATPL applying. And not just circuit hours. Real life flying experience, which contributes to judgement and execution skills.

Problem is that this pilot demographic is in very high demand for most operators. Lots of opportunities. Lots of competing offers.

[pitottubey]

Hello aviators,

I looked at their hiring website and they say you can still apply even if you’re not quite at their 750 hours minimum hiring times.

Should i put my application with over 600 hours or wait till at least I’m at the 750 minimum hiring times?

Thank you

Honestly unless your 600 hours includes 300+ multi-time I wouldn't bother until you hit 750.

[pitottubey]

The CA spots become FO spots if no one wants DEC. So all 19 took FO position

So is Jazz going to have an issue with staffing their planes? With Porter offering better pay and atmosphere will some of the Jazz guys move?

Is it going to get to a desperate situation for them or are there enough 750-1000 hour guys applying.

Desperate for captains eventually, not FOs

My friend is a jazz FO and he gets calls from scheduling every day practically begging him to work overtime on all his days off. There will not ever be a shortage of people qualified and willing to be hired by Jazz to be FOs, but they might be short on, and maybe will continue to be short on, currently trained and experienced FOs.

[tango308]

My friend is a jazz FO and he gets calls from scheduling every day practically begging him to work overtime on all his days off. There will not ever be a shortage of people qualified and willing to be hired by Jazz to be FOs, but they might be short on, and maybe will continue to be short on, currently trained and experienced FOs.

Your friend experience is not representative of the whole pilot group. It depends a lot on the base and type. Lots of guys and gals on sitting reserve not being called.

[pitottubey]

My friend is a jazz FO and he gets calls from scheduling every day practically begging him to work overtime on all his days off. There will not ever be a shortage of people qualified and willing to be hired by Jazz to be FOs, but they might be short on, and maybe will continue to be short on, currently trained and experienced FOs.

Your friend experience is not representative of the whole pilot group. It depends a lot on the base and type. Lots of guys and gals on sitting reserve not being called.

Obviously not every FO will be equally busy Tango. What's currently happening to my friend can be reasonably expected to be more widespread as a pilot hiring increases at AC. We're not just talking about the present, we're talking about the present as an indicator for the future.

[rudder]

Obviously not every FO will be equally busy Tango. What's currently happening to my friend can be reasonably expected to be more widespread as a pilot hiring increases at AC. We're not just talking about the present, we're talking about the present as an indicator for the future.

By YE2022 Jazz will have sent 170-200 pilots to AC. By YE2022 Jazz will have hired approximately 200 pilots.

For 2023, Jazz will send approximately 300 more pilots to AC with the possibility of more (depends how many remaining Jazz pilots are qualified and eligible). For 2023, Jazz will likely be hiring 350-500 pilots. Jazz attrition extends beyond flow to AC.

[ellinas]

Obviously not every FO will be equally busy Tango. What's currently happening to my friend can be reasonably expected to be more widespread as a pilot hiring increases at AC. We're not just talking about the present, we're talking about the present as an indicator for the future.

By YE2022 Jazz will have sent 170-200 pilots to AC. By YE2022 Jazz will have hired approximately 200 pilots.

For 2023, Jazz will send approximately 300 more pilots to AC with the possibility of more (depends how many remaining Jazz pilots are qualified and eligible). For 2023, Jazz will likely be hiring 350-500 pilots. Jazz attrition extends beyond flow to AC.

How easy or hard would it be to find the 500 pilots good enough to get hired at Jazz? Are we pumping them out at a good pace or would there be difficulties

[jpilot77]

Obviously not every FO will be equally busy Tango. What's currently happening to my friend can be reasonably expected to be more widespread as a pilot hiring increases at AC. We're not just talking about the present, we're talking about the present as an indicator for the future.

By YE2022 Jazz will have sent 170-200 pilots to AC. By YE2022 Jazz will have hired approximately 200 pilots.

For 2023, Jazz will send approximately 300 more pilots to AC with the possibility of more (depends how many remaining Jazz pilots are qualified and eligible). For 2023, Jazz will likely be hiring 350-500 pilots. Jazz attrition extends beyond flow to AC.

How easy or hard would it be to find the 500 pilots good enough to get hired at Jazz? Are we pumping them out at a good pace or would there be difficulties

The problem is that Jazz needs guys who can go direct entry Captain or very close to that.

[rudder]

How easy or hard would it be to find the 500 pilots good enough to get hired at Jazz? Are we pumping them out at a good pace or would there be difficulties

The law of supply and demand will eventually hit home. The ab initio FO stream will not suffice.

Jazz needs DEC or near DEC candidates. Economics will eventually dictate outcomes. That is unless some kind of reserved seniority/metered flow is agreed to and implemented. Or perhaps both will be necessary to ensure that the applicant experience stream meets the anticipated attrition rate and demographics.

[ogopogo]

Zero

What did they take if they didn’t take the DEC?

The CA spots become FO spots if no one wants DEC. So all 19 took FO position

Why would a candidate not take the CA offer?

[rudder]

Why would a candidate not take the CA offer?

Because after they tick the box they actually have to pass the training. New equipment type. New company. New procedures. New routes. And pass a command course at a 705 carrier including command LOFT Sim, line Indoc, and CA line check.

Would appear that most new-hires recognize their own limitations. Wise choice.

[tango308]

Why would a candidate not take the CA offer?

Because after they tick the box they actually have to pass the training. New equipment type. New company. New procedures. New routes. And pass a command course at a 705 carrier including command LOFT Sim, line Indoc, and CA line check.

Would appear that most new-hires recognize their own limitations. Wise choice.

Rumor is the DEC fail rate expected to be high, around 80%.

[RockSalty]

Why would a candidate not take the CA offer?

Because after they tick the box they actually have to pass the training. New equipment type. New company. New procedures. New routes. And pass a command course at a 705 carrier including command LOFT Sim, line Indoc, and CA line check.

Would appear that most new-hires recognize their own limitations. Wise choice.

Rumor is the DEC fail rate expected to be high, around 80%.

What happens to someone if they end up failing the captain course, are they moved to an FO one or are they getting the boot?

[Turboprops]

Why would a candidate not take the CA offer?

They made it very clear that, if a DEC fails training, there’s no protection written in the CBA.

When the CBA was written, no one thought DEC would be a thing. It states that if a candidate fails an upgrade, you go back to your previous position.

Well, what’s DEC’s previous position?