New hire bids

[rudder]

Would the concept of a "Port" system ever make a comeback at any airline in Canada, as a way of attracting/keeping pilots ?

Airline management, particularly in Canada, hates pilots. They hate us even more today than they did yesterday. They won't do a thing to make our lives easier if some accountant in some office calculates it will cost one cent more than not doing it. They don't view us as a requirement for a smooth operation. They don't see our value in the ability to have a smooth operation, which comes with experience. They have nothing but contempt for us, and view us as another input on a spread sheet.

Airline executives believe it is through their genius that airplanes move around the country, safely, and no one else helped in that effort.

As long as these individuals keep seeing us as a nuance, and annoyance, instead of integral (which includes are goodwill, which they have lost), Airlines will only see their operations continue to operate in chaos, and continue to give up market share.

Employers don’t hate pilots. They need pilots. The planes cannot fly themselves (yet).

What they hate is paying pilots what they are worth (market forces) and they hate negotiating with them unless all of the leverage is on their side of the table.

2023 is not the environment that managements prefer. Pilots have employment options. The lowball employer will get left behind with multimillion dollar assets parked.

[truedude]

Employers don’t hate pilots. They need pilots. The planes cannot fly themselves (yet).

What they hate is paying pilots what they are worth (market forces) and they hate negotiating with them unless all of the leverage is on their side of the table.

2023 is not the environment that managements prefer. Pilots have employment options. The lowball employer will get left behind with multimillion dollar assets parked.

Just because they need us, doesn't mean they don't hate us. And I would argue that as things unfold, and they are increasingly made aware of just how much they need us, the contempt for us will only grow.

Nearly all executives have an over inflated sense of their value and worth, while simultaneously devaluing everyone else. School teaches them we are an interchangeable resource. A column on a spread sheet. They view any two pilots as the same, and capable of performing the job in the same way. But they are slowly realizing this is not the case, which just increases their contempt for us, and their desire to keep pretending things are fine and they don't really need to pay us.

I think it is pretty obvious they have no intention of giving us any money, and will simply keep shrinking as they come up with excuse after excuse as to why it is actually good business.

It is like the opening scene in the HBO special Chernobyl, where everyone was in complete denial as to what had happened and what the problem was, let alone what the solution was going to have to be. That is airline management in Canada right now.

For 40 years they drove down the pay for pilots, to the point that they made it such an unattractive industry to enter, not many chose to pursue it. They are reaping what they sowed. And the only way to fix it moving forward, is meaningful, and significant change in pay. And until they come to the table with their hat in hand, acknowledging it will take a significant pay increase to solve this problem, I am content to operate under the existing contract, regardless of what the outcome of doing so is.

We will likely be under a 1000 active pilots by summer, and will be parking airplanes by September.

[kiaszceski]

So how many joined today and what’s the equipment available to them?

[hank998899]

So how many joined today and what’s the equipment available to them?

Next GS on the 30th

[Nick678]

This could all have been avoided if a year ago they up the pay by 20% and made sure the 60% flow was honored. Instead they tried a mickey mouse solution that didn't work. No one trusts them on the 60% flow as a result. And it will cost way more than 20% to fix the flow now.

p.s. 30% (or more) should go to year 1-5. 10% for top scale. 50% increase in training override for training pilots.

Benefit premiums fully funded by the employer.

No, just 30% for everyone at this point. Given that the more senior pilots are integral to holding the place together, they are worth that. And LTC pay should be for every flight hour, regardless of if you are doing line indoc. And yes, huge pump required for training pilots, along with guaranteed hotels, flights, and standard daily perdium rates.

They probably don't need to give the green circle pilots anything, they aren't going anywhere.

But our MEC is mostly comprised of senior pilots so I'd bet they will be included in any pay increase.

[dhc#]

Employers don’t hate pilots. They need pilots. The planes cannot fly themselves (yet).

What they hate is paying pilots what they are worth (market forces) and they hate negotiating with them unless all of the leverage is on their side of the table.

2023 is not the environment that managements prefer. Pilots have employment options. The lowball employer will get left behind with multimillion dollar assets parked.

Just because they need us, doesn't mean they don't hate us. And I would argue that as things unfold, and they are increasingly made aware of just how much they need us, the contempt for us will only grow.

Nearly all executives have an over inflated sense of their value and worth, while simultaneously devaluing everyone else. School teaches them we are an interchangeable resource. A column on a spread sheet. They view any two pilots as the same, and capable of performing the job in the same way. But they are slowly realizing this is not the case, which just increases their contempt for us, and their desire to keep pretending things are fine and they don't really need to pay us.

I think it is pretty obvious they have no intention of giving us any money, and will simply keep shrinking as they come up with excuse after excuse as to why it is actually good business.

It is like the opening scene in the HBO special Chernobyl, where everyone was in complete denial as to what had happened and what the problem was, let alone what the solution was going to have to be. That is airline management in Canada right now.

For 40 years they drove down the pay for pilots, to the point that they made it such an unattractive industry to enter, not many chose to pursue it. They are reaping what they sowed. And the only way to fix it moving forward, is meaningful, and significant change in pay. And until they come to the table with their hat in hand, acknowledging it will take a significant pay increase to solve this problem, I am content to operate under the existing contract, regardless of what the outcome of doing so is.

We will likely be under a 1000 active pilots by summer, and will be parking airplanes by September.

Out of curiosity, if parking planes were to happen later this year, what part of the fleet would be most affected, Q400 RJ or EMB ???

[truedude]

Out of curiosity, if parking planes were to happen later this year, what part of the fleet would be most affected, Q400 RJ or EMB ???

Lets be clear that that prediction is my opinion based on observation of the number of people who have left, who are leaving, and in the process of leaving, many of which the company is unaware, since they aren't going to Air Canada. The training department continues to shrink, and LTC pilots are burning out in many bases. Nothing about this is indication of a smooth operation that will get ahead of the issues currently plaguing it. Particularly if they stubbornly refuse to increase pay.

As for what they will decide to park, that decision is way over my pay grade.

[Babar350]

We can make the math for 6 months, just for fun.
20 hired every 3 weeks. 20 leaving every 2 weeks for 6 months for AC.

6 months is 26 weeks / 3 = 8 classes of 20 each. so adding 160 pilots.
Then at the same time, 260 pilots would leave for AC.

Not taking into account attrition to Porter, Flair and AT.

Either that's the perfect number to shrink Jazz to 80 tails, hence operating the 220 on the CRJ and EMB routes, or someone's messing up with the numbers.

Either way, it's all about an Excel spreadsheet.

[cdnavater]

[quote=truedude post_id=<a href="tel:1235377">1235377</a> time=<a href="tel:1674421647">1674421647</a> user_id=1348]
[quote=rudder post_id=<a href="tel:1235375">1235375</a> time=<a href="tel:1674421339">1674421339</a> user_id=7034]
[quote=truedude post_id=<a href="tel:1235367">1235367</a> time=<a href="tel:1674420215">1674420215</a> user_id=1348]

This could all have been avoided if a year ago they up the pay by 20% and made sure the 60% flow was honored. Instead they tried a mickey mouse solution that didn't work. No one trusts them on the 60% flow as a result. And it will cost way more than 20% to fix the flow now.

p.s. 30% (or more) should go to year 1-5. 10% for top scale. 50% increase in training override for training pilots.

Benefit premiums fully funded by the employer.
[/quote]

No, just 30% for everyone at this point. Given that the more senior pilots are integral to holding the place together, they are worth that. And LTC pay should be for every flight hour, regardless of if you are doing line indoc. And yes, huge pump required for training pilots, along with guaranteed hotels, flights, and standard daily perdium rates.
[/quote]

They probably don't need to give the green circle pilots anything, they aren't going anywhere.

But our MEC is mostly comprised of senior pilots so I'd bet they will be included in any pay increase.
[/quote]
And as a green circle pilot I sure am glad that is the case, fortunately for me, the bottom end are constantly leaving and not exceeding me(us) yet. Hopefully that doesn’t change until I’m a little closer to retirement because most certainly the comments I’ve seen from your(non green circle) demographic is fix us but screw the rest, even though you chose to come here and we have not had a meaningful pay increase in over a decade.
I say this with sincerity, leave, there are better opportunities out there for you and we don’t need you here with your greedy selfish wants. The more of you that leave the better it will be for those that always planned on staying.
That being said, the entire contract needs improvement and mostly at the bottom but to suggest nothing for us because we are staying anyway is downright ignorant and selfish, so, please go away.
Thank you for doing your part

[Rowdy]

Its a simple math game.

How much do you pay 220 captains and FO's?

How much do you pay EMB170/CRJ/Q400 crews?

AC is pissing money away on a lot of the routes Jazz operates if they up gauge aircraft to the 220 and Bus just in crew costs. Not to mention if they reduce frequency and upset their customers. Its not a sustainable choice.

Also, you're not going to see a 220 go into sudbury, Bathurst, Penticton, smithers, castlegar etc.

[flyingb]

Any ideas on the positions that were awarded on the GS that started today ?

[Rowdy]

Should know today!

[wcpilot]

Any updates on bids for this ground school?

[Lions971]

All YYZ

8 Q400
6 RJ
3 EMB

[PostmasterGeneral]

Its a simple math game.

How much do you pay 220 captains and FO's?

How much do you pay EMB170/CRJ/Q400 crews?

AC is pissing money away on a lot of the routes Jazz operates if they up gauge aircraft to the 220 and Bus just in crew costs. Not to mention if they reduce frequency and upset their customers. Its not a sustainable choice.

Also, you're not going to see a 220 go into sudbury, Bathurst, Penticton, smithers, castlegar etc.

AC has made it clear for a very long time that crew costs are of little consequence when it comes to operating a certain route. Jazz will continue to shrink as the routes are upgauged. It's already happening, the 220 and L319 are already going to Thunder Bay, Moncton, Freddy, etc.

[truedude]

Its a simple math game.

How much do you pay 220 captains and FO's?

How much do you pay EMB170/CRJ/Q400 crews?

AC is pissing money away on a lot of the routes Jazz operates if they up gauge aircraft to the 220 and Bus just in crew costs. Not to mention if they reduce frequency and upset their customers. Its not a sustainable choice.

Also, you're not going to see a 220 go into sudbury, Bathurst, Penticton, smithers, castlegar etc.

AC has made it clear for a very long time that crew costs are of little consequence when it comes to operating a certain route. Jazz will continue to shrink as the routes are upgauged. It's already happening, the 220 and L319 are already going to Thunder Bay, Moncton, Freddy, etc.

You can't up-gauge every route. And with every route upgauged, an airplane is unavailable for other routes.

And if Air Canada really doesn't care about crew costs, why is it shrinking and cutting service out west, vs pay more under the terms of the CPA so Jazz can find and retain pilots. Seems like they care a little.

And with AC going into contract talks, you are about to learn how much AC cares about crew costs.

[wcpilot]

Any idea how long it takes after completing LID to hold a proper line and not be on reserve all the time?

[Turboprops]

Any idea how long it takes after completing LID to hold a proper line and not be on reserve all the time?

YYZ RJ FO would be 2 month or less

[pilotdude1326]

All YYZ

8 Q400
6 RJ
3 EMB

What is the process to transfer per se to the YVR base? Just wait until openings?

[lownslow]

AC is pissing money away on a lot of the routes Jazz operates if they up gauge aircraft to the 220

I’d heard the Max has comparable fuel burns to an E-175 while carrying roughly twice as many fare carrying passengers. Surely the 220 has to be in the same league, fuel-wise. To me that looks like continuing to operate the Jazz Embraers (and maybe CRJs?) on the long term is nonsensical for jet-length runways, the only question being whether this will be addressed by shuffling that flying to mainline or changing CPA scope.