New hire bids

[Inverted2]

Would be interesting to know the stats for canceled flights. As a publicly traded company, Jazz management has a responsibility to its shareholders and canceled and delayed flights is likely costing the company a lot more money than a raise for the pilots.

[truedude]

Would be interesting to know the stats for canceled flights. As a publicly traded company, Jazz management has a responsibility to its shareholders and canceled and delayed flights is likely costing the company a lot more money than a raise for the pilots.

They work around "canceling" flights, by instead canceling routes. So each month, flights that once existed just vanish, and we don't see it as publicly.

[rudder]

I think it is just ego at this point holding them back. I think the idea of treating pilots as an integral part of their operation, and dealing with us on an even playing field to those in the head office is just so unpalatable to them that they will do anything to avoid it.

And Porter will send their ‘thanks’ to whomever made that strategic decision.

Just as Westjet is in the west, with their new YEG base and expanded western schedule.

This could all have been avoided if a year ago they up the pay by 20% and made sure the 60% flow was honored. Instead they tried a mickey mouse solution that didn't work. No one trusts them on the 60% flow as a result. And it will cost way more than 20% to fix the flow now.

Pilots fly planes.

Managers manage.

Senior managers make strategic decisions.

This is about outcomes and accountability.

[rudder]

This could all have been avoided if a year ago they up the pay by 20% and made sure the 60% flow was honored. Instead they tried a mickey mouse solution that didn't work. No one trusts them on the 60% flow as a result. And it will cost way more than 20% to fix the flow now.

p.s. 30% (or more) should go to year 1-5. 10% for top scale. 50% increase in training override for training pilots.

Even with those increases, Jazz is getting a bargain.

Benefit premiums fully funded by the employer.

[truedude]

This could all have been avoided if a year ago they up the pay by 20% and made sure the 60% flow was honored. Instead they tried a mickey mouse solution that didn't work. No one trusts them on the 60% flow as a result. And it will cost way more than 20% to fix the flow now.

p.s. 30% (or more) should go to year 1-5. 10% for top scale. 50% increase in training override for training pilots.

Benefit premiums fully funded by the employer.

No, just 30% for everyone at this point. Given that the more senior pilots are integral to holding the place together, they are worth that. And LTC pay should be for every flight hour, regardless of if you are doing line indoc. And yes, huge pump required for training pilots, along with guaranteed hotels, flights, and standard daily perdium rates.

[rudder]

This could all have been avoided if a year ago they up the pay by 20% and made sure the 60% flow was honored. Instead they tried a mickey mouse solution that didn't work. No one trusts them on the 60% flow as a result. And it will cost way more than 20% to fix the flow now.

p.s. 30% (or more) should go to year 1-5. 10% for top scale. 50% increase in training override for training pilots.

Benefit premiums fully funded by the employer.

No, just 30% for everyone at this point. Given that the more senior pilots are integral to holding the place together, they are worth that. And LTC pay should be for every flight hour, regardless of if you are doing line indoc. And yes, huge pump required for training pilots, along with guaranteed hotels, flights, and standard daily perdium rates.

10% for top scale is enough. Push tenure scale down to max 10-12 years. Middle year pilots are looking at a significant pay bump.

If employer pays 100% of premiums then take home pay increases significantly. If not, then pilots with 10 YOS+ should get an annual retention bonus of $15000 CA or $10000 FO paid quarterly.

No bucks - no Buck Rogers.

[truedude]

p.s. 30% (or more) should go to year 1-5. 10% for top scale. 50% increase in training override for training pilots.

Benefit premiums fully funded by the employer.

No, just 30% for everyone at this point. Given that the more senior pilots are integral to holding the place together, they are worth that. And LTC pay should be for every flight hour, regardless of if you are doing line indoc. And yes, huge pump required for training pilots, along with guaranteed hotels, flights, and standard daily perdium rates.

10% for top scale is enough. Push tenure scale down to max 10-12 years. Middle year pilots are looking at a significant pay bump.

If employer pays 100% of premiums then take home pay increases significantly. If not, then pilots with 10 YOS+ should get an annual retention bonus of $15000 CA or $10000 FO paid quarterly.

I can live with that. The issue with the retention bonus is, it will be easy to carve out later. But even that would be something... which is better than the nothing currently. But whatever the improvement is, it has to be meaningful. Not small patches.

[Inverted2]

A 10% raise is NOT enough. That doesn’t even cover inflation. Plus it will just put you in a higher tax bracket so the government thieves will just tax you more. Paying 100% of the benefits would be a huge step forward. The amount of deductions on our pay stubs is very discouraging.

[rudder]

A 10% raise is NOT enough. That doesn’t even cover inflation. Plus it will just put you in a higher tax bracket so the government thieves will just tax you more. Paying 100% of the benefits would be a huge step forward. The amount of deductions on our pay stubs is very discouraging.

Compress the tenure scale. 30% increase in entry level pay. 10% increase in top scale rates. Employer paid premiums or retention bonus for top scale pilots.

Top scale CA in 2025 is $153. Move that to 2023. Make top scale 12 years. Make year 1 CA 2023 $100. Divide 153-100 equally by 11 yearly tenure increases.

All of that would equal average 25-30% increase in take home pay.

[Inverted2]

A 10% raise is NOT enough. That doesn’t even cover inflation. Plus it will just put you in a higher tax bracket so the government thieves will just tax you more. Paying 100% of the benefits would be a huge step forward. The amount of deductions on our pay stubs is very discouraging.

Compress the tenure scale. 30% increase in entry level pay. 10% increase in top scale rates. Employer paid premiums or retention bonus for top scale pilots.

All of that would equal 25-30% increase in take home pay.

I agree with you 100%. Unless the deductions are addressed a 10% raise for me is a non-starter.

It’s all about what’s put in your bank account twice a month over your hourly pay rate.

[sstaurus]

A 10% raise is NOT enough. That doesn’t even cover inflation. Plus it will just put you in a higher tax bracket so the government thieves will just tax you more. Paying 100% of the benefits would be a huge step forward. The amount of deductions on our pay stubs is very discouraging.

Not to be that guy, but more money is always more money for you. Not wanting to be in a higher tax bracket to keep the government from getting more is ridiculous logic. These are marginal tax rates.

[RobertChow]

I think it is just ego at this point holding them back. I think the idea of treating pilots as an integral part of their operation, and dealing with us on an even playing field to those in the head office is just so unpalatable to them that they will do anything to avoid it.

And Porter will send their ‘thanks’ to whomever made that strategic decision.

Just as Westjet is in the west, with their new YEG base and expanded western schedule.

This could all have been avoided if a year ago they up the pay by 20% and made sure the 60% flow was honored. Instead they tried a mickey mouse solution that didn't work. No one trusts them on the 60% flow as a result. And it will cost way more than 20% to fix the flow now.

YEG base ? Where is that coming from ?

[truedude]

And Porter will send their ‘thanks’ to whomever made that strategic decision.

Just as Westjet is in the west, with their new YEG base and expanded western schedule.

This could all have been avoided if a year ago they up the pay by 20% and made sure the 60% flow was honored. Instead they tried a mickey mouse solution that didn't work. No one trusts them on the 60% flow as a result. And it will cost way more than 20% to fix the flow now.

YEG base ? Where is that coming from ?

From Westjet.

Their townhall indicated 25 min crew, with a maximum of up to a 100.

[rudder]

Just as Westjet is in the west, with their new YEG base and expanded western schedule.

This could all have been avoided if a year ago they up the pay by 20% and made sure the 60% flow was honored. Instead they tried a mickey mouse solution that didn't work. No one trusts them on the 60% flow as a result. And it will cost way more than 20% to fix the flow now.

YEG base ? Where is that coming from ?

From Westjet.

Their townhall indicated 25 min crew, with a maximum of up to a 100.

There are many alternative employment opportunities for Jazz pilots if the AC flow is judged to be unreliable.

[CaptDukeNukem]

YEG base ? Where is that coming from ?

From Westjet.

Their townhall indicated 25 min crew, with a maximum of up to a 100.

There are many alternative employment opportunities for Jazz pilots if the AC flow is judged to be unreliable.

YUP. Especially the ones who got temporarily relocated to the east for what could be a longer stay than anticipated.

[Babar350]

I thought nobody got temporarily relocated yet, although it could happen for the august bid.

[Inverted2]

I thought nobody got temporarily relocated yet, although it could happen for the august bid.

Not technically relocated but a nice 4 hour deadhead on each end of your pairing. Ok once in a while but gets old real fast.

[rudder]

I thought nobody got temporarily relocated yet, although it could happen for the august bid.

Not technically relocated but a nice 4 hour deadhead on each end of your pairing. Ok once in a while but gets old real fast.

The writing is in the wall as far as YYC is concerned. It will be attrited down to very close to zero. Only vacancies are for roster balancing and even that is not being done to a full complement.

YHZ pilots had their lives upended. YVR CRJ pilots had their lives upended. YYZ CRJ pilots had their lives upended. There are no base or equipment ‘lifetime’ guarantees at Jazz.

People can make choices.

[dhc#]

I thought nobody got temporarily relocated yet, although it could happen for the august bid.

Not technically relocated but a nice 4 hour deadhead on each end of your pairing. Ok once in a while but gets old real fast.

The writing is in the wall as far as YYC is concerned. It will be attrited down to very close to zero. Only vacancies are for roster balancing and even that is not being done to a full complement.

YHZ pilots had their lives upended. YVR CRJ pilots had their lives upended. YYZ CRJ pilots had their lives upended. There are no base or equipment ‘lifetime’ guarantees at Jazz.

People can make choices.

Would the concept of a "Port" system ever make a comeback at any airline in Canada, as a way of attracting/keeping pilots ?

[truedude]

Would the concept of a "Port" system ever make a comeback at any airline in Canada, as a way of attracting/keeping pilots ?

Airline management, particularly in Canada, hates pilots. They hate us even more today than they did yesterday. They won't do a thing to make our lives easier if some accountant in some office calculates it will cost one cent more than not doing it. They don't view us as a requirement for a smooth operation. They don't see our value in the ability to have a smooth operation, which comes with experience. They have nothing but contempt for us, and view us as another input on a spread sheet.

Airline executives believe it is through their genius that airplanes move around the country, safely, and no one else helped in that effort.

As long as these individuals keep seeing us as a nuance, and annoyance, instead of integral (which includes are goodwill, which they have lost), Airlines will only see their operations continue to operate in chaos, and continue to give up market share.