I am seriously trying to get into aviation and the time has finally come to make a decision regarding flight training. I've been asking around and it was suggested that I do my training in Oshawa. I live in Toronto, and getting to and from Oshawa wouldn't be a problem. I also considered the Brampton Flight Centre (http://www.bramptonflightcentre.com) and Canadian Flyers in Markham (http://www.canadianflyers.com). I like that Markham is close, but they don't offer a ground school (instead they point you to an online ground school). Regarding Oshawa, I have come across two schools: The Durham Flight Centre (http://www.durhamflightcentre.com) and Toronto Airways Canadian Flight Academy (http://torontoairways.com). They are both based out of the Oshawa Executive Airport. What's the difference between the two (apart from the slight differences in costs)? Why have two different flight schools at the same airport? I'd appreciate if anyone could shine some light on these two schools and, if there are any other options, advise me on those as well.

Nobody decided for or against two flight schools, its just a product of capitalism that when there is sufficient demand (for X) new supply (for X) pops up. Pretty important concept. Makes the world work.

flyingkat wrote:I am seriously trying to get into aviation and the time has finally come to make a decision regarding flight training. I've been asking around and it was suggested that I do my training in Oshawa. I live in Toronto, and getting to and from Oshawa wouldn't be a problem. I also considered the Brampton Flight Centre (http://www.bramptonflightcentre.com) and Canadian Flyers in Markham (http://www.canadianflyers.com). I like that Markham is close, but they don't offer a ground school (instead they point you to an online ground school). Regarding Oshawa, I have come across two schools: The Durham Flight Centre (http://www.durhamflightcentre.com) and Toronto Airways Canadian Flight Academy (http://torontoairways.com). They are both based out of the Oshawa Executive Airport. What's the difference between the two (apart from the slight differences in costs)? Why have two different flight schools at the same airport? I'd appreciate if anyone could shine some light on these two schools and, if there are any other options, advise me on those as well.

I would honestly recommend DFC in yoo great bunch of guys and if you want to instruct after they would almost certainly hire you. JUST AVOID CANADIAN FLGHT ACADEMY they're a complete dairy farm, well known for milking students dry.

stelmosfire wrote:

flyingkat wrote:I am seriously trying to get into aviation and the time has finally come to make a decision regarding flight training. I've been asking around and it was suggested that I do my training in Oshawa. I live in Toronto, and getting to and from Oshawa wouldn't be a problem. I also considered the Brampton Flight Centre (http://www.bramptonflightcentre.com) and Canadian Flyers in Markham (http://www.canadianflyers.com). I like that Markham is close, but they don't offer a ground school (instead they point you to an online ground school). Regarding Oshawa, I have come across two schools: The Durham Flight Centre (http://www.durhamflightcentre.com) and Toronto Airways Canadian Flight Academy (http://torontoairways.com). They are both based out of the Oshawa Executive Airport. What's the difference between the two (apart from the slight differences in costs)? Why have two different flight schools at the same airport? I'd appreciate if anyone could shine some light on these two schools and, if there are any other options, advise me on those as well.

I would honestly recommend DFC in yoo great bunch of guys and if you want to instruct after they would almost certainly hire you. JUST AVOID CANADIAN FLGHT ACADEMY they're a complete dairy farm, well known for milking students dry.

Absolutely! +1

I have had extensive experience with both FTUs and DFC has a much better overall experience both in terms of quality of instruction but also a much more friendly and relaxed outfit.

Avoid Toronto Airways/Canadian Flight Academy!
Speaking from experience

Who care what the name above the door says.

Seek out good instructors and the cheapest aircraft you can train in, the name of the school in meaningless.

flyingkat wrote:I am seriously trying to get into aviation and the time has finally come to make a decision regarding flight training. I've been asking around and it was suggested that I do my training in Oshawa. I live in Toronto, and getting to and from Oshawa wouldn't be a problem. I also considered the Brampton Flight Centre (http://www.bramptonflightcentre.com) and Canadian Flyers in Markham (http://www.canadianflyers.com). I like that Markham is close, but they don't offer a ground school (instead they point you to an online ground school). Regarding Oshawa, I have come across two schools: The Durham Flight Centre (http://www.durhamflightcentre.com) and Toronto Airways Canadian Flight Academy (http://torontoairways.com). They are both based out of the Oshawa Executive Airport. What's the difference between the two (apart from the slight differences in costs)? Why have two different flight schools at the same airport? I'd appreciate if anyone could shine some light on these two schools and, if there are any other options, advise me on those as well.

Each person has their own opinions when it comes to this question. Some are coloured by their personal experiences, or with some grievance they have with a particular school. Both schools are accredited by Transport Canada to provide varying levels of flight training. The best way to make your decision is to visit both and go with what you feel is right for you.
All the best in your training

True to each their own but when a trend starts to show itself....

Blueontop wrote:True to each their own but when a trend starts to show itself....

exactly. i really wanted to like toronto airways as it is very convenient for me but ...too many red flags early on in my training.

Also, i am hearing that Seneca no longer has an agreement with Toronto Airways for their flight programs. With Buttonville due to close, they have chosen Peterborough i believe as the next training grounds.

Best to visit each school and do some research, Toronto Airways is new in Oshawa so yes their maybe some hiccups. BFC has a pretty good setup as well, only problem is the commute, otherwise it's a fantastic place to train...Island air is pretty good too, but you'll pay more as the practice area is a distance, and ground holding times can be long.

If you want to know about long ground holding times, just wait until there are 9 flight school Cessnas lined up ahead of you at Oshawa. At Buttonville it could take 45 minutes to get into the air.

True, from what i know Oshawa has ATC so that may facilitate the traffic a little better...guess it depends on the day, but Island Air probably would have the highest wait.

Although it's not strictly relevant to the original question, for the sake of accuracy it's worth noting the following:

Buttonville, Oshawa and Billy Bishop all have control towers. The waits at the island are not zero, but it's unusual for there to be more than two aircraft waiting for departure and the Q400's are out of the way very very quickly. The taxi distances to the runway thresholds and back after landing at Oshawa are long. At the Island - the airport being very small - they are very short.

My experience of training flights at all three airports is that you waste the least amount of time and money on the ground at YTZ. By a considerable margin.

Toronto Airways has moved out of Buttonville as of Nov 23. You can consider Buttonville in terms of flight training, to be entirely out of the question.

What about Markham? That might suit the OP. You're pretty much guaranteed no delays for takeoff and very short taxi times.

stelmosfire wrote: I would honestly recommend DFC in yoo great bunch of guys and if you want to instruct after they would almost certainly hire you. JUST AVOID CANADIAN FLGHT ACADEMY they're a complete dairy farm, well known for milking students dry.

Hi, i was wondering what to look out for. How do you recognize when the school is "milking you dry" ? What are examples of the red flags?

Here are some good things to look out for:

You need an instructor who is laser-focused on you, and your learning, not on their own progress through their log book.

You need an instructor who can adjust the style and content of what they teach to suit you. Not to suit what you think you want, but to suit what will work best for you. That means they have to be able to come up with an idea of what will work best for you.

You need an instructor who has the balls and the willingness to say - "you and I aren't a good match. I don't think I'm the best person to carry on training you, and I'm going to ask the CFI to suggest another instructor with whom you can make faster progress."

You need an instructor who spends time on getting the basics right, so you have a decent foundation on which to build your skills.

You need an instructor who will give you honest feedback about your progress - not pad your ego to be your friend, and not crush your soul either.

As far as the school goes, it's hard for a new student to tell. But you should get an idea that the Chief Flight Instructor values the above things about his instructors and supervises them in order to achieve the above.

Photofly has just given excellent advice! I can't think what I'd add to that...

photofly wrote:Here are some good things to look out for:

You need an instructor who is laser-focused on you, and your learning, not on their own progress through their log book.

You need an instructor who can adjust the style and content of what they teach to suit you. Not to suit what you think you want, but to suit what will work best for you. That means they have to be able to come up with an idea of what will work best for you.

You need an instructor who has the balls and the willingness to say - "you and I aren't a good match. I don't think I'm the best person to carry on training you, and I'm going to ask the CFI to suggest another instructor with whom you can make faster progress."

You need an instructor who spends time on getting the basics right, so you have a decent foundation on which to build your skills.

You need an instructor who will give you honest feedback about your progress - not pad your ego to be your friend, and not crush your soul either.

As far as the school goes, it's hard for a new student to tell. But you should get an idea that the Chief Flight Instructor values the above things about his instructors and supervises them in order to achieve the above.

Hard to improve on the above, from my chair. Well articulated.

I'd even suggest the above statement deserves a sticky mention as it should be read by every student.

Thanks for the great answers everyone!
I am leaning towards doing my flight lessons in Markham, due to proximity and, hopefully, lower traffic as compared to other places.
However, the fact still remains that I must do a ground school somewhere and I would prefer an in-class option instead of the online one. I'm looking to do the ground school in Oshawa.
Certainly the most important issue is finding a good instructor, and the only way to do so is to talk, get other people's opinions. I want to thank photofly for that excellent and succinct list of what to look for in an instructor. In the end it doesn't matter what the school's called, but maybe it can be an indication of where the "good" ones end up.

This was a helpful thread , thanks everyone. Cheers.

I started my ppl training in Markham in September of 2016 after finding out that buttonville was closing, and I thought Oshawa was too far away. I did my ground school with Harv's air online and loved it. If your are going through the process of researching this and want some more info, send me a pm and we can chat over pm or the phone, happy to help.

Pick a school that is close, so that you can get there when the weather is good. The weather changes and opportunities open up to fly that you might not be able to jump on if your commuting over an hour.

Meet a couple of instructors to see who would be the best fit, don't just take what your given.

That leads to a whole host of other considerations that as a student I never knew existed......Like if the airport only has 1 runway you are likely to run into crosswind limitations that may not exist at a larger center.

But I think I would look at proximity first, then interview several instructors to find one you like.

photofly wrote:Although it's not strictly relevant to the original question, for the sake of accuracy it's worth noting the following:

Buttonville, Oshawa and Billy Bishop all have control towers. The waits at the island are not zero, but it's unusual for there to be more than two aircraft waiting for departure and the Q400's are out of the way very very quickly. The taxi distances to the runway thresholds and back after landing at Oshawa are long. At the Island - the airport being very small - they are very short.

My experience of training flights at all three airports is that you waste the least amount of time and money on the ground at YTZ. By a considerable margin.

One thing to keep in mind. With Oshawa you are at your practice area in less than 10 minutes. I have flown out of Oshawa for 5 years, I have never seen more than 4 aircraft in a line. Very quick at departure time. I guess the taxi is longer in Oshawa, but, maybe by a minute or two.

PS Always enjoyed training out of DFC.

It's five nm to the edge of the control zone in both cases. Where an instructor takes you to teach airwork is up to him or her.