Swiss Helo Pilots in Canada

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Qdrivermann
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Swiss Helo Pilots in Canada

Post by Qdrivermann »

Am not in the Helicopter industry but do know a few guys who are. I was recently told that the son of a retired friend has been driving all over Canada looking for work as an entry level helicopter pilot for several years now - and no luck. He has worked all the hard jobs on the ground in heli logging operations etc. and he has been paying his dues for years... then he runs across a young guy who is originally from Lugano Switzerland. This young pilot from Switzerland did his training in Canada and went back home to Switzerland and applied for another visa and landed a gig through another Swiss helicopter pilot at LR Helicopters on the R44 based in Toronto. Boom... entry level helicopter job (R-44) handed out to a Swiss national through conections within the Swiss Helicopter industry... out of all places: in Canada! His dream job is awaiting him back home in the Swiss Alps when he gets the hours/experience he needs for the job back home. My friend's son is becoming very disillusioned and meeting up with this young Swiss helo pilot in Toronto was the icing on the cake for him... he is ready to give up. He said the Swiss guy is a really nice and enthusiastic young man, his problem is not with him - but the system that allows a Swiss helicopter pilot mafia to operate like this inside Canada - effectively cutting Canadian citizens right out of the entry level pilot jobs. Where did Canada go wrong in looking after it's own citizens first? I ran this story by a helicopter pilot friend of mine in Vancouver and all he said was: good luck getting a job in Switzerland as a Canadian licenced/Canadian passport holder. I wouldn't mind knowing how LR Helicopters pulled this off. When my friends son fronted up at LR Helicopters in Calgary (head office) he was read his rights - in terms of hours/experience he needed before they would even look at him! These kind of hiring practices are part of a system that needs to be corrected!
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jsmetalbashers
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Re: Swiss Helo Pilots in Canada

Post by jsmetalbashers »

This happens a lot in Canada. I've met many foreigners in the Canadian industry. Lots of Aussies and Kiwis flying here in BC. I wouldn't say its a "mafia" but i agree its a problem. There are so many flight schools pumping out new pilots into a system that will only hire maybe 25% of them. It is so hard to break into the system and its a matter of knowing the right people, making an impression, and being in the right place at the right time. If your friends son has been out of flight school for a while now his chances are slimmer than when he originally finished his training. An AME course would be helpful to get his foot in the door somewhere.
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MOAB
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Re: Swiss Helo Pilots in Canada

Post by MOAB »

I haven't heard many good things about LR, that's said it's a way to get
Hours.
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AngelsSang
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Re: Swiss Helo Pilots in Canada

Post by AngelsSang »

Having a license means almost nothing. It is how the person does in the initial contact, phone calls, and if it goesnpast that, the face to face interviews. If a new pilot is out of school for 6 months, go do 10 hours or so to show employers you're trying to stay current.
Answer all questions honestly, not what you think that employer wants to hear. Many of us have been interviewing people for decades, and we are basically a walking lie detector. Arrive freshly showered, shaved, and dressed nicely, but no suits. When tossed a few questions that seem weird to you, understanding that those questions are to see how well you handle being hit with something unexpected on purpose, don't let them rattle you or knock you off balance. Initial contact if by email should contain up to date photos of yourself as well. If initial contact is via phone, offer to follow up with an email or text containing photos. Option 3 is initial contact in person, leave them a professionally done CV that has a picture to remind a potential employer who you are, and don't make them ask for references, put them at the back of every CV you hand out. Hand written cover letters are great, they show your ability to write, and spell with a good old fashioned pen, which amazingly many can no longer do. Listen, answer questions, and on initial contact keep your questions to a minimum. Remember that everything you do is being judged. Don't show up to early, more than 10 minutes early is too early. Never be late! Don't smoke for a long time before you go if you're a smoker, it stinks, and us nonsmokers want to puke at the smell, and i smell it on people 45 minutes later. Wash your vehicle so you don't show up in a filthy car, yes we check. Drive carefully when pulling in to park, if there are lines, park precisely between them, preferably backing in. Never park to near the front doors, showing how you are too lazy to walk a few feet, and an arrogance like you own the place. Don't have 3 lbs of grease in your hair, pants so low your butt is hanging out, shake hands firmly but not hand crushing. Make eye contact with the interviewer...looking away while talking to me, I automatically assume you are lying. Come alone, don't bring your mommy/daddy/bf/gf/ or anyone else. Speak clearly, head up, don't use slang, and don't say 'yup', 'like' or other BS terms. If you need a second to gather your thoughts take a second, don't use fillers like like...and it is 'yes' not 'yup'. While some pilots would rather blame the 'mafia' from a foreign country, instead of themselves for not getting a job. They should be looking in a mirror. Maybe even take a course on how to handle an interview. As a businessman who has over 600 employees in total between all companies, has interviewed tens of thousands of people over the last 30 years, 99% of people who don't get a job, blew it all on their own, not because of some foreign person stealing it. Before I forget, if you are one of those people who has Facebook, clean it up before you go job hunting. No stupid photos or comments. I've seen it all, your drunk buddies tearing up a protected swamp area in their 4x4s while drinking beer, petty arguements, cursing, screaming in CAPITALS about how much you love Trudeau to someone else who hates him, will guarantee that you don't get a job. Best case scenario you don't have Facebook at all, but if you do, anything stupid said will be used against you. Pro tip, while I am terrible with anything internet related, a couple of my personal assistants could darn near be a private detective. They will find your online skeletons if you have them. Fully 30% of people lose all chances at a job because of their social media.
Cheers
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EasyTarget
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Re: Swiss Helo Pilots in Canada

Post by EasyTarget »

Although I have no idea who AngelsSang is, and I've been trying to figure it out over the last few days after reading his/her posts, I agree with pretty much everything said.

I've sat down with friends kids and tried to talk them into going the fixed wing route, or go get a trade to fall back on before even thinking about getting into the helicopter industry. Now, more than ever, is not the time to be a fresh helicopter pilot. There are far too many experienced pilots with thousands of hours and lots of real world experience looking for a new seat due to downsizing or outright closure of large companies.

I totally agree that this is not the fault of the Swiss pilot (or any other nation for that matter) who lawfully applies for and is granted work in Canada. Reality is if they have good hands and feet, and show up clean and polished with the ability to speak in whole sentences they stand head and shoulders above a Canadian who shows up unprepared, lacking basic conversational abilities, with even a hint of entitlement.

Unfortunately aviation, and helicopters may be worse, is a double edge sword business - you can't get a job without experience, and you can't get experience without a job. Maybe it's time to lay off temporary foreign workers for a bit, at least for a few years. I have nothing against anyone trying to make a better life for themselves, as long as they follow the rules. I have many friends that came here as a TFW, and have stayed to live permanently in Canada.

Over the last couple years I've even had some low-timers with me that I let get some stick time back and forth to the work site. Even that may not work in their favour. Although they get to fly, they have to do it from the left seat in a multi-engine aircraft they're not endorsed on (Bell 212) that no pilot is ever going to believe for an instant they were the operational pilot on. I tell them day one - "Be careful how you record/report this time. No one that hires pilots will believe yo have 170 hours, and 70 of those hours is useable 212 time. You're better off just writing it in a cover letter and having the person interviewing you call me and I'll give rundown on what you did, and how you did."

On the same note, I've also had low time pilots that were so lazy they didn't even get a chance to sit up front. I'd rather have an empty seat with the autopilot flying (if equipped) than reward someone because they believe they "deserve" to be up front as opposed to "earning" a seat.
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AngelsSang
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Re: Swiss Helo Pilots in Canada

Post by AngelsSang »

EasyTarget wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:08 pm Although I have no idea who AngelsSang is, and I've been trying to figure it out over the last few days after reading his/her posts, I agree with pretty much everything said.

I've sat down with friends kids and tried to talk them into going the fixed wing route, or go get a trade to fall back on before even thinking about getting into the helicopter industry. Now, more than ever, is not the time to be a fresh helicopter pilot. There are far too many experienced pilots with thousands of hours and lots of real world experience looking for a new seat due to downsizing or outright closure of large companies.

I totally agree that this is not the fault of the Swiss pilot (or any other nation for that matter) who lawfully applies for and is granted work in Canada. Reality is if they have good hands and feet, and show up clean and polished with the ability to speak in whole sentences they stand head and shoulders above a Canadian who shows up unprepared, lacking basic conversational abilities, with even a hint of entitlement.

Unfortunately aviation, and helicopters may be worse, is a double edge sword business - you can't get a job without experience, and you can't get experience without a job. Maybe it's time to lay off temporary foreign workers for a bit, at least for a few years. I have nothing against anyone trying to make a better life for themselves, as long as they follow the rules. I have many friends that came here as a TFW, and have stayed to live permanently in Canada.

Over the last couple years I've even had some low-timers with me that I let get some stick time back and forth to the work site. Even that may not work in their favour. Although they get to fly, they have to do it from the left seat in a multi-engine aircraft they're not endorsed on (Bell 212) that no pilot is ever going to believe for an instant they were the operational pilot on. I tell them day one - "Be careful how you record/report this time. No one that hires pilots will believe yo have 170 hours, and 70 of those hours is useable 212 time. You're better off just writing it in a cover letter and having the person interviewing you call me and I'll give rundown on what you did, and how you did."

On the same note, I've also had low time pilots that were so lazy they didn't even get a chance to sit up front. I'd rather have an empty seat with the autopilot flying (if equipped) than reward someone because they believe they "deserve" to be up front as opposed to "earning" a seat.

Good post, lots of insight in those few words. Ranting on here about the mafia, foreign worker hatred, how evil the industry is, will destroy a newbies chance. If anyone hiring ever finds out they post here, reading a negative comment like that shows their mindset. Instead get up every morning, glad to be alive, put on a positive attitude, and go job hunting with a glorious outlook on life. Act professional, positive, and courteous! Amazing how well that works, compared to the alternative.
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fish4life
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Re: Swiss Helo Pilots in Canada

Post by fish4life »

Very loosely related to the topic, how do fixed wing hours look on a resume? Eg someone who flew fixed wing commercially for years that was looking to get into rotary? I’m assuming float / bush time more favourably viewed than airline?
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EasyTarget
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Re: Swiss Helo Pilots in Canada

Post by EasyTarget »

There are a couple threads that already address this issue - just do a search for "Fixed Wing to Chopper" and "Fixed Wing to Rotary" on this site to get the long version.

A lot of the same issues previously stated in this thread are still applicable to a conversion pilot. You have experience working radios in the environment, which is a plus. However a lot of the places we work there is no one to talk to anyway. Definitely float and bush time is more beneficial than hard surface to hard surface. You are at a disadvantage out of the gate that as a conversion pilot you only have, at a minimum, 60 hours helicopter time whereas fresh pilots have 100 hours and limited experience "in the aviation environment".

Reality is, there aren't many people that will give much respect to fixed wing time in the VFR bush world. It would be more benefit in the IFR side of the house, but there are very few IFR Helicopter Operations in Canada that are true IFR. Everyone that has a seat right now is clenching it with both butt cheeks.

I've flown with many converted fixed wing guys over the years - I'm lucky enough to be able to go back and forth between VFR and IFR. I've even been asked to take fixed wing pilots out a few times who may be interested in switching over. Now, I don't normally shoot approaches to runways but I am guilty of the my own evil guilty pleasure on these flights of shooting a stabilized approach to the numbers watching the prospective converter get "really uncomfortable" as I bleed the airspeed off way back before the start of the strip. Especially the final portion where you get below 60 knots to hit the numbers at 0 forward and 0 vertical. It's sad, but it's the little things that bring me joy now....

I recommend reviewing the other threads in totality. They should answer most of your questions. You may also want to go over to the Vertical Magazine forums which is a more rotary specific site and search through there as well.
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AngelsSang
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Re: Swiss Helo Pilots in Canada

Post by AngelsSang »

EasyTarget wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:38 am There are a couple threads that already address this issue - just do a search for "Fixed Wing to Chopper" and "Fixed Wing to Rotary" on this site to get the long version.

A lot of the same issues previously stated in this thread are still applicable to a conversion pilot. You have experience working radios in the environment, which is a plus. However a lot of the places we work there is no one to talk to anyway. Definitely float and bush time is more beneficial than hard surface to hard surface. You are at a disadvantage out of the gate that as a conversion pilot you only have, at a minimum, 60 hours helicopter time whereas fresh pilots have 100 hours and limited experience "in the aviation environment".

Reality is, there aren't many people that will give much respect to fixed wing time in the VFR bush world. It would be more benefit in the IFR side of the house, but there are very few IFR Helicopter Operations in Canada that are true IFR. Everyone that has a seat right now is clenching it with both butt cheeks.

I've flown with many converted fixed wing guys over the years - I'm lucky enough to be able to go back and forth between VFR and IFR. I've even been asked to take fixed wing pilots out a few times who may be interested in switching over. Now, I don't normally shoot approaches to runways but I am guilty of the my own evil guilty pleasure on these flights of shooting a stabilized approach to the numbers watching the prospective converter get "really uncomfortable" as I bleed the airspeed off way back before the start of the strip. Especially the final portion where you get below 60 knots to hit the numbers at 0 forward and 0 vertical. It's sad, but it's the little things that bring me joy now....

I recommend reviewing the other threads in totality. They should answer most of your questions. You may also want to go over to the Vertical Magazine forums which is a more rotary specific site and search through there as well.

As we age, it is funny the little things that bring us joy, isn't it. I put down two loonies this morning beside the starboard skid before taking off. When returning my goal was to land so that it looked in exactly the same place as before leaving. It wasn't exact, but damn close. Stupid to 99% of people probably, but fun for myself.
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