Why is Flair so Hated?

[telex]

Every FLE thread brings out the venom and name calling.

Seems everybody has an opinion about them.

Why do you hate the operation?

[Zaibatsu]

Probably the like 8 GDOs per month and the King Air wages to fly a 737.

[FurHat]

Or that they were the scab operation set up to bust ALPA at Flightcraft...

[tincanflyer]

Bottom feeders that fuel the race to the bottom; shut Shell down, steal the extra Air Transat flying, etc.

[Black_Tusk]

I have no idea.

I'd just throw in that I finally heard them on the radio for the first time in a long time yesterday.

[flyinhigh]

So if you work for anyone, other than AC or WJ your a douche for hurting everyone because the salary isn't 200k to start.

Wow

[yycflyguy]

So if you work for anyone, other than AC or WJ your a douche for hurting everyone because the salary isn't 200k to start.

Wow

200k to start where?

[goldeneagle]

So if you work for anyone, other than AC or WJ your a douche for hurting everyone because the salary isn't 200k to start.

That would probably then have to include Encore me thinks. Didn't they make a big hoopla about paying '80% of the industry average'....

[Minimums]

Or that they were the scab operation set up to bust ALPA at Flightcraft...

Just like Summit is to First Air?

Just like Sky regional is to A/C?

Just like Georgian is to Jazz?

Capitalism will always overule a union. It may take a little time, but thats how it will play out in the end. Unless your in government, no union job is safe in this generation.

[mbav8r]

Slight correction, Sky was created because Jazz pilots voted 98% in favour of a strike and CR swore he would never be in a position where one group could cause so much disruption. GGN is another Jazz buster and maybe a little bit to keep pressure on Sky to keep cost down.

[confusedalot]

That,s not what my buddy at American Airlines is living. They got a huge pay increase that the corporation just gave them just like that, since they are feeling the heat.

New hires are in their 40's, where they typically were 25-30.

316K to fly a 737 sounds pretty good to me

It may take some time, but it's coming here. Too bad I missed out on all of the fun.

[confusedalot]

double post in error

[atphat]

People who "blame" other people for taking jobs are pathetic.

[mbav8r]

People who "blame" other people for taking jobs are pathetic.

So, it would be okay with you if someone offered your company to work for 30% less than you and they accept. You're out of work now and that's ok. It's really no different than that, doing the same work for much less is desperate, selfish and pathetic.
Clearly you have no clue how supply and demand works and given what's going on in the US, if the shortage continues, these bottom feeder companies will have to adapt or die.

[atphat]

There are a group of pilots who do exactly my job for less money. I should hate them all? Curse them out in the customs line? I am indifferent to them yet have a problem with the management and union that allowed them to be created in the first place.
I'm assuming you are on the A scale at Jazz. You would have turned down the job otherwise of course. Do you let all your coworkers on the B scale know what dirty scabs they are?

[mbav8r]

I don't think them scabs at all, I have said to some of them when the conversation allows, that if no one applied they would've had to change it, coincidentally I have heard a rumour that is possibly happening now, however fact is they signed up and let's not forget the reason the pay is what it is, the pilots who undercut us and took those jobs.
For what it's worth, Jazz pilots are not undercutting anyone, just came down to the level required to not get phased out completely.
As for Flair, the pay is better than I thought but still basically paid a regional pilot wage for a mainline job, do you think Flair is getting all this work because the product is spectacular or they're cheaper than everyone else?

[atphat]

For what it's worth, Jazz pilots are not undercutting anyone, just came down to the level required to not get phased out completely.

Actually that isn't true at all. Jazz only exists because they were willing to do the job cheaper than ACPA pilots. Every express route was once an AC route flown by AC pilots. So just remember to include yourself when you start slagging everyone else.

Edit to add: I know that's not entirely accurate, the point I was making is that every route not flown by AC pilots is because the route is flown at a discount by someone else.

[mbav8r]

If it's not entirely accurate why say it, sounds like you need a history lesson , not going to get it here from me but I will say something, Jazz history dates back to 1934, 3 years before AC and at one point was wholly owned by Air Canada.
One other thing, ACPA took the RJs from Jazz pilots by offering to fly them for less, one could argue that was the beginning of the "race to the bottom"

[SRV]

Ever notice it is usually gutless, anonymous, self-entitled whiners that knock other companies. Likely because they didn't get that "automatic" upgrade or those extra days off over Christmas and New Years. Same s---, different day!

[Jimmy2]

Jazz history dates back to 1934

We are talking about airlines not music genres.

[mbav8r]

It was Canada's oldest airline and started service in 1934. The home base was Timmins and it operated many duties in addition to passenger and freight services. Over the years, scheduled services served over 40 cities, including one destination in the United States. In 1973 it merged with White River Air Services but continued to operate as Austin Airways.

In June 1987 it merged with Air Ontario Ltd (formerly Great Lakes Airlines (Canada), formed in 1958) to form Air Ontario Inc. In turn Air Ontario became part of Air Canada Jazz in 2001. [2]

The April 26, 1987 Air Ontario/Austin Airways joint system timetable listed Air Canada Connector code share flights operated by both airlines on behalf of Air Canada with Austin Airways operating 14-passenger Beechcraft 99, 7-passenger Cessna 402, 19-passenger de Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin Otter, 37-passenger de Havilland Canada DHC-8 Dash 8 and 40 to 43-passenger Hawker Siddeley HS 748 aircraft at this time.[3] The HS 748 turboprop was the largest aircraft operated by Austin Airways.

[mbav8r]

Ever notice it is usually gutless, anonymous, self-entitled whiners that knock other companies. Likely because they didn't get that "automatic" upgrade or those extra days off over Christmas and New Years. Same s---, different day!

I don't see your signature attached to your post, same could be said about you!

[confusedalot]

Jazz history dates back to 1934

We are talking about airlines not music genres.

If White River Air Services, later on Austin Airways, is being referenced, it only comprises a fifth of where Jazz came from.

Ah, the kids don't know their history

[Zaibatsu]

Actually that isn't true at all. Jazz only exists because they were willing to do the job cheaper than ACPA pilots. Every express route was once an AC route flown by AC pilots. So just remember to include yourself when you start slagging everyone else.

Air BC, Air Ontario, Air Nova.. all separate feeder lines that served Air Canada routes long before Jazz.

[atphat]

That's why I said it's not entirely accurate.