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Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:48 am
by Glasnost
First page of Job Ads almost all stickies from an industry getting more and more desperate by the day.
It’s not 9/11 anymore. Prices have gone up up up. Boomers are retiring.
There’s a very simple solution to your problems.
F**K YOU!! PAY ME!!
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:00 am
by Boreas
Standing by for said boomer to point out
that "back in the day..." this and that.
F**K YOU!! PAY ME!!
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:56 am
by Rowdy
Its not always about the pay.
How about you don't call me in on my only fcking day off in the week. Or mess with my schedule 80 times in same week.. or call me an hour after I've called in sick to demand a doctors note and that I 'better be ready for tomorrow'.
How about you not call your FO's drunk at 3am and scream at them for no reason. Or bullying the captains to take less fuel? Or not paying expenses incurred because of management screw ups. How about you don't leave a 3k fuel bill on an FO's visa for 2 months...
I know of an operator that billed an employee for a fire extinguisher recharge after said employee put out a fire that would have burned the mf'er to the ground.
THAT sort of stuff is what has driven so many to the regionals. Which in turn keeps pay down too...
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:05 pm
by PPpilot
It's also laughable when the schedules are horrendous. There is one on there right now for 14 on 7 off. With the industry the way it is, who would ever take such a crappy schedule like that?
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:33 pm
by Blueontop
PPpilot wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:05 pm
It's also laughable when the schedules are horrendous. There is one on there right now for 14 on 7 off. With the industry the way it is, who would ever take such a crappy schedule like that?
Better than 14/3
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:49 pm
by Bacunayagua
An operator that recently posted looking for King Air Captains, claiming to offer "Salary and condition above average", pays $45,000 and a whopping 10 days off. Of which only 6 are actual GDOs.
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:03 pm
by mmm..bacon
^ well, if you're weighing between going to Encore, and taking a KA Left seat, then $45K and 10 off are above the average!
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:25 pm
by trey kule
If you consider the typical work week outside aviation is 5 on 2 off, 14 days straight is just about 3 weeks of work days. 20 days on is 4 weeks.
I recall operators who thought a month was 30 days except for weather days when pilots were expected to do paperwork, clean planes etc.
It is all about quality of life. I think operators are going to have to recognize that.
On the other hand, spending a few thousand to train a pilot and find out that they are sending resumes out starting the day they got their PPC is a legitimate concern for operators.
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:32 pm
by digits_
trey kule wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:25 pm
If you consider the typical work week outside aviation is 5 on 2 off, 14 days straight is just about 3 weeks of work days. 20 days on is 4 weeks.
True, but the typical work day outside aviation is 8 hours. I doubt the 14 on 7 off will be 14 8 hour days. Most likely much more. A lot of the schedules with lots of off days work out to working way more than 40 hours/week. At least in 703/704.
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:51 pm
by flyingjerry
Before pay goes up, requirements will continue to go down until it legally can't anymore.
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:14 pm
by northernpilot2
Ahh the complaining never stops eh.. If you don't like the job, dont accept it.
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:59 pm
by altiplano
Here here!
We've been f-d across this profession for years. I lived it.
Rowdy laid it out... pressure/pay/schedule... shitty maintenance at shitty operators and we kept it going.
Times have changed.
Whether you're a Navajo or Caravan pilot, a Metro or a Dash, an RJ or a 737... Bottom to the top - "@#$! you pay me" will lift all - the more the better.
Standing by for said boomer to point out
that "back in the day..." this and that.
It was this and that and more (less) back in the day.
That's a fact.
Don't minimize how many challenges and how much shit guys crawled through to make a career in the face of recession/911/bankruptcy/merger/deregulation/etc...
I'm not a boomer, boomers had it pretty good I think...
There are chances at great careers right now, to "make it" from a young age, or advance your position wherever you are. I just think it's appropriate to recognize that is hasn't been better in a long time. Appreciate that, don't blow it or sell yourself short thinking you are getting ahead in spite of others.
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:04 am
by goingnowherefast
Some pilots need to total up their duty hours and do the math on their pay checks. If it's less than minimum wage, go to the labour board. It's been done before successfully.
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:06 pm
by PPpilot
goingnowherefast wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:04 am
Some pilots need to total up their duty hours and do the math on their pay checks. If it's less than minimum wage, go to the labour board. It's been done before successfully.
Minimum wage should not be the starting point for a pilot. Why should someone making burgers make the same as someone who is a "qualified professional"? In a profession that has way more responsibility and risks, that is insulting. Why is Canada being left behind in wages.
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:32 pm
by C.W.E.
Minimum wage should not be the starting point for a pilot. Why should someone making burgers make the same as someone who is a "qualified professional"?
At what point does a commercial pilot become " a qualified professional " who can demand to be paid top rates?
The day the pilot gets his/her commercial license, or after said pilot gets some experience flying commercially and can demonstrate they can safely do the job?
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:14 pm
by PPpilot
C.W.E. wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:32 pm
Minimum wage should not be the starting point for a pilot. Why should someone making burgers make the same as someone who is a "qualified professional"?
At what point does a commercial pilot become " a qualified professional " who can demand to be paid top rates?
The day the pilot gets his/her commercial license, or after said pilot gets some experience flying commercially and can demonstrate they can safely do the job?
You make a valid point. I guess it would be like any other profession where people need on the job training. I am not really familiar with said jobs but I would hope and I am sure they aren't making minimum wage. I would even try and look at AME'S. Maybe someone who is an AME could let us know what their average salary might be in the initial stages after getting their licenses? Obviously everyone has to start at a lower pay with no actual real commercial flying experience but why should that be even remotely close to minimum wage.
There are a lot of people working in the Aviation Industry that are making way more than the pilots in the first 1-4 years in some cases. Some of these people are even working the easiest jobs at these companies. I will admit that I was making considerably more on my ground position than I am making flying, and I was doing way less work with little responsibility and no risk at all.
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:20 pm
by goingnowherefast
Pilots should make more than minimum wage. My post was more about salaried pilots working 60+ duty hours a week once ground duties are factored in. Clean the hangar, dispatching, loading aircraft, etc. Even 50 hours a week for 30 grand a year is well below minimum wage.
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:46 pm
by C.W.E.
Obviously everyone has to start at a lower pay with no actual real commercial flying experience but why should that be even remotely close to minimum wage.
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:31 pm
by helicopterray
Maybe someone who is an AME could let us know what their average salary might be in the initial stages after getting their licenses
On the helicopter side, an apprentice right out of school will make around $17/hour. Moving up to about $24/hour in 2 years when licensed.
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:16 am
by Victory
Hopefully they get Avcanada Joe some money though. This site has helped me get every flying job I've had. I'd like to think he's breaking even at least.
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:42 am
by all_ramped_up
helicopterray wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:31 pm
Maybe someone who is an AME could let us know what their average salary might be in the initial stages after getting their licenses
On the helicopter side, an apprentice right out of school will make around $17/hour. Moving up to about $24/hour in 2 years when licensed.
I'm a C-hair from getting my license at the moment on the fixed wing side and started at $20/hr right out of school. That's not typical though... If I recall correct, at Jazz Apprentices start at $15 something an hour.
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:59 am
by schnitzel2k3
Just go straight to page 2 hehe.
S.
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:45 am
by Meecka
I started out at 10.50 an hour, took 5 years and 2 other jobs for me to get 15.00. For the longest time as a licensed AME with several signing authorities I was making 24.00 an hour.
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:20 am
by dhc#
Re: Stickies aren’t going to get you employees.
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:35 pm
by beaverpuq
I must have done better than most. $50 per flight hour and all the Walleye I could eat! I make more money now, but never had as much fun as that first job.