Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

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rotorspeed
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Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by rotorspeed »

Does anyone know how it works if you get a class 1 medical and there is a restriction for needing to fly with another pilot. I'm merely talking about training. How does it work for solo training. If anyone knows is it worded restricted in commercial use as in under a commercial environment.. One of the schools doesn't seem to understand this though they have dealt with it before. Im talking about the solo aspect of training. By the way have unrestricted class 3
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tired of the ground
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by tired of the ground »

It would seem that there are two options.
1. Valid with or as copilot
2. With an accompanying pilot

It doesn't seem that with either of those options, solo flight would be allowed. I believe the reason for the medical flexibility is to allow experienced pilots to continue flying, not to allow new ones to train.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... 06-180.htm
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dialdriver
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by dialdriver »

Received this email from Transport on the same question:


"After discussion with our inspectors in the flight training division we have come up with the chart below to help show what instruction you would be able to give if you held an Instructor Rating with a Restricted Cat 1 medical that has the following restriction:

It states “You must be accompanied by another pilot who holds an unrestricted, medically valid pilot licence with the appropriate category, class and rating for the intended flight.”

You would also be able to instruct on a simulator for various instrument times that are allowed on a simulator.

Type of Training

Can the Instructor Instruct:

Ab initio for a RPP or PPL or CPL-H

No

RPP holder training for a PPL

No

PPL holder training for a CPL

Yes, however could not instruct for the night portion of the training

Night Rating

No

VFR OTT Rating

Yes provided Instrument time is taught in VMC conditions

Multi Engine Rating

No

Landplane Rating (conversion)

No

Seaplane Rating (conversion)

No

Initial Type Rating

No

Non Instrument Rated pilot for an Instrument Rating

Yes, if conducted in VMC conditions. No, if conducted in IMC conditions. May not file IFR.

Non recent Instrument Rated Pilot in order to regain recency. (eg. 6-6-6 is not current in 2nd year)

Yes, if conducted in VMC conditions. No, if conducted in IMC conditions. May not file IFR.

Instrument Rated Pilot who meets the recency conditions. (eg. To do 6-6-6 before recency expires)

Yes

Aircraft checkouts

Yes

Flight Review to meet 5 yr recency in CAR 401.05 if no PIC time within 5 years of flight

No

Flight Review to meet 2 yr recency in CAR 401.05

No"

PM me and I will forward the email with Transport Canada contact information. You can show the email to your school.
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rotorspeed
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by rotorspeed »

First off thanks dialdriver for helping out I appreciate it. Im still a bit confused is this what a flight insructor can do with the restricted medical. My issue is if I want to train for the CPL will the school understand I can solo for the training, crosscountry and such. I apologize if I didint understand fully your reply
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dialdriver
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by dialdriver »

Sorry, I misunderstood. The above is for an instructor providing training.

With an unrestricted category 3, you can certainly train for a CPL. However, as tired said, there may be a limit on the flexibility Transport Canada allows when it comes to issuing you a CPL. But, human rights would require them to consider it. You should email Transport on the address they provide on their website and put the question to them. You will get a written response. If that answer doesn't satisfy you, get a competent aviation lawyer to weigh in. Don't take no for an answer too quickly. I wouldn't have 40 years flying behind me if I did.
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dialdriver
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by dialdriver »

Do you already have the Cat 1 medical with a restriction?
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rotorspeed
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by rotorspeed »

no I have unrestricted class 3
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rotorspeed
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by rotorspeed »

I asked my ppl instructor if i needed a class 1 to start training for the commercial . He said yes. It doesnt make sense as far as I understand and I cant find it in the CARS you only need a class 3 for multi and Ifr. Youre not doing anything more complex in the commercial training than in those ratings. Im not sure if he is right
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dialdriver
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by dialdriver »

I would recommend you try get a Cat 1 restricted medical before you spend money on training. It wouldn't hurt to make sure Transport can conduct a flight test and issue a license first. Start with a competent medical examiner with extensive experience with commercial pilots. Choose your medical examiner very carefully. He needs to be your best advocate (I wasted several years with an idiot). Once he submits the paperwork it may come back as denied, but with the procedures outlined for appeal. There are many pilots with extensive experience in these processes that can help along the way. Be persistent.
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rotorspeed
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by rotorspeed »

Ok I will I asked a transport medical office and they said shouldn't be problem since you have class 3 for solo. I just don't understand this whole thing. If the restriction on the medical said :restricted when flying in commercial opertion" it would make more sense. Thanks again for help dialdriver. thanks also tired of ground for posting codes
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dialdriver
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by dialdriver »

rotorspeed wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:58 pm I asked my ppl instructor if i needed a class 1 to start training for the commercial . He said yes. It doesnt make sense as far as I understand and I cant find it in the CARS you only need a class 3 for multi and Ifr. Youre not doing anything more complex in the commercial training than in those ratings. Im not sure if he is right
I don't see a need for a medical for training. Your instructor is likely guessing. Ask him for a reference in the CARS.

You can contact Transport Canada via email and get written clarification:

https://tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/opss ... ns-139.htm
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dialdriver
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by dialdriver »

rotorspeed wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:14 pm Ok I will I asked a transport medical office and they said shouldn't be problem since you have class 3 for solo. I just don't understand this whole thing. If the restriction on the medical said :restricted when flying in commercial opertion" it would make more sense. Thanks again for help dialdriver. thanks also tired of ground for posting codes
A category 3 medical cannot have restrictions pertaining to commercial operations, because a cat 3 does not permit commercial flight - A category 1 medical requires a higher standard of fitness than a category 3. They are completely separate certificates. Initially, I held a Category 1 restricted medical, but was not permitted to fly privately at all as I was not able to hold a Cat 3 medical. The rules then changed and my Cat 3 is now unrestricted, but my Cat 1 is.
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rotorspeed
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by rotorspeed »

Did you have problems with the restricted cat 1 to do your training?
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dialdriver
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by dialdriver »

rotorspeed wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:23 pm Did you have problems with the restricted cat 1 to do your training?
My medical was unrestricted when I did my initial pilot training. I already held an ATPL and Cat 1 medical when I was restricted.
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by PilotDAR »

I asked my ppl instructor if i needed a class 1 to start training for the commercial . He said yes.
I have been down this road. I did all the CPL training in my plane, on my valid CAT3 at the time. I literally flew to Buttonville for the medical exam to raise me to a CAT1, and thereafter to write the CPL written exam. I had the medical exam no problem, and my booklet was stamped. I took it across and presented to write, and was refused. It was explained that I had the exam, but I did not have the CAT1 medical, as that was issued by TC, I only had the examination, and doctor's stamp, which is not the medical. I argued this point, as all I was seeking was to write the exam, not fly a plane as a CAT1. After a stressful 45 minute discussion at the counter, I was still refused to write the exam, and had to rebook it. I found this to be unfair, as the delay cascaded to affect my flight test, and two other pilot's too (they were all booked the same day, and all three had to be put off). But those were the rules. For whatever reason, TC required the CAT1 medical sticker to be in my booklet before I could write, and you have to write before you can do the flight test. Ultimately, I passed everything no problem, but by trying to do it out of order, I upset the force....
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rotorspeed
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by rotorspeed »

Is there an email address you recommend for transport. It is next to impossible to get through to Vancouver office
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photofly
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by photofly »

For whatever reason, TC required the CAT1 medical sticker to be in my booklet before I could write,
For better or worse, it's in the regulations:
(1) For admission to a written examination required for the issue of a permit, licence or rating an applicant shall have met the medical standards for the issue of the permit, licence or rating and shall produce proof of medical fitness in one of the following forms:

(a) a Medical Certificate in the appropriate medical category;
(b) a Medical Assessment Letter (Form 26-0417) in the appropriate medical category;
(c) in the case of a Student Pilot Permit - Aeroplane, Pilot Permit - Ultra-light Aeroplane or Pilot Licence - Glider, a Civil Aviation Medical Declaration (Form 26-0297);
(d) a temporary Medical Certificate in the appropriate medical category; or
(e) a Medical Examination Report assessed to the appropriate medical category by the Regional Aviation Medical Officer.
So those are your options.
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rotorspeed
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by rotorspeed »

I got a clarification today by transport licensing and they stated this is a grey area as in you have an unlimited class 3 and will have a restricted class one. So the restriction would have to be worded the right way or would say something like unrestricted class 3 with class 1 restriction. What I'm wondering is, is the medical department going to word it that way. Licensing also said that they have dealt with this before.
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dialdriver
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by dialdriver »

rotorspeed wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:31 pm Is there an email address you recommend for transport. It is next to impossible to get through to Vancouver office
https://tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/opss ... ns-139.htm
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dialdriver
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Re: Class 1 medical with second pilot restriction

Post by dialdriver »

rotorspeed wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:27 pm I got a clarification today by transport licensing and they stated this is a grey area as in you have an unlimited class 3 and will have a restricted class one. So the restriction would have to be worded the right way or would say something like unrestricted class 3 with class 1 restriction. What I'm wondering is, is the medical department going to word it that way. Licensing also said that they have dealt with this before.
You will probably get a "license restricted subject to letter dated ######" The letter will spell out the details. Mine is 4 pages long.
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