Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
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Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
I swear to god if anyone mentions "variable tailwinds on final" I will send them to the same hell as the "that'll buff out" idiot.
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself
Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
I'd be curious about the wind conditions on final.
Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
I have it on good authority that it was a wind shear event.Eric Janson wrote: ↑Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:45 amThat's not correct - airport briefing says winds over 20 knots from the N will potentially cause problems. And then for approach 25l/R and Missed approach/Departure 07L/R.sportingrifle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:44 pm Landed on 07R with a 15 knot N wind. This scenario in HK is well known for low level windshear. Could have been a factor.
Here's the briefing for anyone unfamiliar with HKG.
Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
Bottom line....be ready to advance the thrust. Autothrottle all the way to touchdown type guys could be less ready to quickly add thrust. Pulling the control column aft as an only response to a decreasing performance shear will bring the tail closer to the ground. Reduced flaps on approach may be helpful on a long runway like the ones at HKG.altiplano wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:53 amI have it on good authority that it was a wind shear event.Eric Janson wrote: ↑Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:45 amThat's not correct - airport briefing says winds over 20 knots from the N will potentially cause problems. And then for approach 25l/R and Missed approach/Departure 07L/R.sportingrifle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:44 pm Landed on 07R with a 15 knot N wind. This scenario in HK is well known for low level windshear. Could have been a factor.
Last edited by pelmet on Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
Sadly we now have a generation of Pilots who are afraid to turn automatics "off", companies that want no/minimal manual flying and trainers who are lost outside the books.pelmet wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:06 pm Bottom line....be ready to advance the thrust. Autothrottle all the way to touchdown guys could be less ready to quickly add thrust. Pulling the control column aft as an only response to a decreasing performance shear will bring the tail closer to the ground. Reduced flaps on approach may be helpful on a long runway like the ones at HKG.
Seen all of the above. The Blind leading the Blind.
This is my personal experience and not a comment on this incident.
Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business
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Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
The ole “stick and rudder” skills are missing in this newer generation of airline pilots is what you are seeing from your own observations.Eric Janson wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:17 pmSadly we now have a generation of Pilots who are afraid to turn automatics "off", companies that want no/minimal manual flying and trainers who are lost outside the books.pelmet wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:06 pm Bottom line....be ready to advance the thrust. Autothrottle all the way to touchdown guys could be less ready to quickly add thrust. Pulling the control column aft as an only response to a decreasing performance shear will bring the tail closer to the ground. Reduced flaps on approach may be helpful on a long runway like the ones at HKG.
Seen all of the above. The Blind leading the Blind.
This is my personal experience and not a comment on this incident.
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Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
A lot of people don't seem to know what a rudder is or how to use it correctly or even at all.Old fella wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:27 pmThe ole “stick and rudder” skills are missing in this newer generation of airline pilots is what you are seeing from your own observations.Eric Janson wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:17 pmSadly we now have a generation of Pilots who are afraid to turn automatics "off", companies that want no/minimal manual flying and trainers who are lost outside the books.pelmet wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:06 pm Bottom line....be ready to advance the thrust. Autothrottle all the way to touchdown guys could be less ready to quickly add thrust. Pulling the control column aft as an only response to a decreasing performance shear will bring the tail closer to the ground. Reduced flaps on approach may be helpful on a long runway like the ones at HKG.
Seen all of the above. The Blind leading the Blind.
This is my personal experience and not a comment on this incident.
Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business
- Old fella
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Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
Is it a product of having very low flying time pilots say with 200-300 hrs TT in cockpits of NB/WB airliners.Eric Janson wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:57 amA lot of people don't seem to know what a rudder is or how to use it correctly or even at all.Old fella wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:27 pmThe ole “stick and rudder” skills are missing in this newer generation of airline pilots is what you are seeing from your own observations.Eric Janson wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:17 pm
Sadly we now have a generation of Pilots who are afraid to turn automatics "off", companies that want no/minimal manual flying and trainers who are lost outside the books.
Seen all of the above. The Blind leading the Blind.
This is my personal experience and not a comment on this incident.
Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
It is 100% the lack of proper basic flight training by the flying training schools.Is it a product of having very low flying time pilots say with 200-300 hrs TT in cockpits of NB/WB airliners.
Then to add insult to the problem the flight test people are so incompetent they pass the students and give them a license.
The whole system is a sad joke and has been for decades.
Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
So I'm not the only one that cringes every time I watch those x-wind landings that get posted to YouTube, you know the ones where the aircraft's land without ever having any x-wind correction at touchdown or even during their swerving roll-outs?
I'm told there's no need to kick-out the crab or even roll aileron into the wind with the heavies, but I also rarely see the turbo-props using proper x-wind techniques in these videos either, just seems wrong to me! Are these dramatic landings a product of never having learned the proper x-wind technique in the first place?
I'm told there's no need to kick-out the crab or even roll aileron into the wind with the heavies, but I also rarely see the turbo-props using proper x-wind techniques in these videos either, just seems wrong to me! Are these dramatic landings a product of never having learned the proper x-wind technique in the first place?
Keep the dirty side down.
Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
Heard a rumour it was the FO’s first landing, any truth to it?
Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
I think you will find that Boeing has as many as three techniques for crosswind landings in some of their aircraft including landing in a crab. However, it would be wise to not try this on a dry runway, especially in a significant crosswind or else you might get an 'interesting' rollout.
Even the largest of aircraft can get a very noticeable wing-down tendency if aileron is not held into wind during the takeoff/landing roll in a significant crosswind, although whether or not that applies to all types, I don't know. What applies to one type may not apply to another.
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Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
Yes - the Blind leading the Blind.EPR wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:04 pm So I'm not the only one that cringes every time I watch those x-wind landings that get posted to YouTube, you know the ones where the aircraft's land without ever having any x-wind correction at touchdown or even during their swerving roll-outs?
I'm told there's no need to kick-out the crab or even roll aileron into the wind with the heavies, but I also rarely see the turbo-props using proper x-wind techniques in these videos either, just seems wrong to me! Are these dramatic landings a product of never having learned the proper x-wind technique in the first place?
You land large jets the same way you land anything else - the basics of flying don't change with aircraft Type.
We've had this discussion on a different thread - crabbed landings without using the rudder to align the aircraft with the runway is poor technique imho.
It's part of the continual Dumbing Down of Aviation.
Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business
Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
It is incredible that so many pilots do not understand the basics of flying.You land large jets the same way you land anything else - the basics of flying don't change with aircraft Type.
Any side ways drift on touch down produces a force sideways on the landing gear and thus the whole airplane, the more angle between the airplane heading and the runway the higher the sideways force.
Proper airplane handling will eliminate these forces so why land going sideways down the runway????
Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
Ok, that's what I thought, but having never flown the big metal I didn't know for sure. I guess all those excruciatingly poor x-wind landings are a result of never learning the proper technique in the first place, which I find so surprising!Eric Janson wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:02 amYes - the Blind leading the Blind.EPR wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:04 pm So I'm not the only one that cringes every time I watch those x-wind landings that get posted to YouTube, you know the ones where the aircraft's land without ever having any x-wind correction at touchdown or even during their swerving roll-outs?
I'm told there's no need to kick-out the crab or even roll aileron into the wind with the heavies, but I also rarely see the turbo-props using proper x-wind techniques in these videos either, just seems wrong to me! Are these dramatic landings a product of never having learned the proper x-wind technique in the first place?
You land large jets the same way you land anything else - the basics of flying don't change with aircraft Type.
We've had this discussion on a different thread - crabbed landings without using the rudder to align the aircraft with the runway is poor technique imho.
It's part of the continual Dumbing Down of Aviation.
Keep the dirty side down.
Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
Why learn proper technique when you can start by flying big shiny metal......EPR wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:51 pmOk, that's what I thought, but having never flown the big metal I didn't know for sure. I guess all those excruciatingly poor x-wind landings are a result of never learning the proper technique in the first place, which I find so surprising!Eric Janson wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:02 amYes - the Blind leading the Blind.EPR wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:04 pm So I'm not the only one that cringes every time I watch those x-wind landings that get posted to YouTube, you know the ones where the aircraft's land without ever having any x-wind correction at touchdown or even during their swerving roll-outs?
I'm told there's no need to kick-out the crab or even roll aileron into the wind with the heavies, but I also rarely see the turbo-props using proper x-wind techniques in these videos either, just seems wrong to me! Are these dramatic landings a product of never having learned the proper x-wind technique in the first place?
You land large jets the same way you land anything else - the basics of flying don't change with aircraft Type.
We've had this discussion on a different thread - crabbed landings without using the rudder to align the aircraft with the runway is poor technique imho.
It's part of the continual Dumbing Down of Aviation.
Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
It is true. Wonder if he is a new-hire as I heard some are going on the 777. Preliminary report here....
https://www.thb.gov.hk/aaia/doc/Aircraf ... (rev)e.pdf
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Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
deleted
Last edited by Sharklasers on Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Air Canada tailstrike in Hong Kong
Doesn't list the first officers experience. Could be a 2000 hr wonder new hire but who knows. Strange they touched down on the right main gear first with a left hand crosswind. Not the way I was taught to do crosswind landings.
Let’s Go Brandon