Working for Coastal Mountain Air?

RampJock · Post by **RampJock** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:25 am

ok I had an interview with Coastal Mountain Air, this is what they said they'd pay me $ 50 bucks a day flat rate no taxes to drive a Van and fly a 172. Is it just me or does that sound fishy the no tax thing. and 50 bucks a day living next to whistler no staff housing anyone know anything about these guys?

shleb · Post by **shleb** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:33 am

HAHA that man actually interviews people? HAHA! He should be the one looking for people to fly for him.

I dont think this man has any industry experience, just a potent financial backer.

Good luck on making it through the summer , and try and see the big picture if you think of working there.

zero · Post by **zero** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:34 am

I turned down the same job in Feb. That kind of wage is below min wage and should be illegal...shame on them.

Wilbur · Post by **Wilbur** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:23 pm

News Flash, it is illegal. Go with it and you have no WCB if you get hurt, no EI once unemployed, and you will still owe income tax unless you want to comit tax fraud and not declare your income.

If you can live with the risk of getting a bad name, you can work the summer for the guy, keep a detailed record of your work hours, and wait until you move on. Immediately after leaving, file a complaint with the labour board asking them to order the company to pay you minimum wage, overtime as applicable, and to submit premiums to EI.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:49 pm

Sounds fishy.

But lets look at this. If it's 5 days a week of paid work, thats $1000/month, tax free - thats what lockhart air pays there rampies.
not great, but doable.

If there is cheap rent available, you can live off $1000/month.
The money's not good, but as a former instructor, that was what I made (sometimes less).
But the thing I don't like is if he's not deducting taxes, your then considered a contract pilot. If your injured or killed, your not covered unless you have 3rd party insurance (VERY expensive). No EI either, unless you pay into it yourself. If he agrees to hire you as a contract pilot, pay the $50 and start your own company for the tax breaks.

I wouldn't rule it out, but I also wouldn't jump into it till you get more information.

corn-shoot · Post by **corn-shoot** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:51 pm

I can with a straight face, that I have flown for far less. Got get your flight time monkey, and we'll see you in the promised land.

kalaynarb · Post by **kalaynarb** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:04 pm

...welcome to f'n aviation.suck it up or go home

civic nation · Post by **civic nation** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:17 pm

Ill take option three kalaynarb....

kalaynarb · Post by **kalaynarb** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:31 pm

...uh huh,that's what i'm talkin' about

MurtsAir · Post by **MurtsAir** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:42 pm

Hey RampJock PM me, Good Luck finding Cheap housing you live next to WHISTLER! (there goes your paycheck) your best bet is to get a pad with a bunch of the tow pilots from the soaring centre. There cool always have a cold beer waitng for ya after a long day of taking it up the hoop. just email me,

ball left · Post by **ball left** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:03 pm

Well, I have a couple things to say about this company. First of all, to the excitement of all hard working pilots, the CP of this company enjoys contemplating the hiring of pilots who will work for free...... his theory is that "Boy, can you ever save money from a pilot who will work for free" IDIOT!

Secondly, as said above, if you are earning $1000 a month and you can get cheap housing, then wicked..... unfortunately this company is in pemberton, the fastest growing house market in canada..... expensive to say the least.

Next, Yes it is true that the CP has no real industry experience, but hell, he has 'test flown' a katana...... so bow down.

Also, yes, if it was a strictly flying position, i could understand that this company could get you by as far as first job goes........ get the experiece and F off...... but the thing is that you are driving a suburban for the guy 60% of the time as well....... arnt you glad you just dropped $40,000 on a CPL multi IFR???

I will give it to the CP however, he is a good salesmen.... a natural lawyer if you will..... He will appear to be a straight, smart, and helpful man, but if it comes down to enhancing his own self image..... you are nothing, consider yourself dirt.

I beleive Pemberton has a large glider location, and if you are indeed lucky enough to work near whistler let alone in BC, go tow gliders. Stay away from the company that try's to get respect by having the letters CMA....... its more like Crappy Mountain Air.

WHAT A LOAD OFF MY CHEST!

good luck on the job searches boys and girls!

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 3:28 am

You will be lucky to find accomodation for less than $600 per month in whistler. That is, unless you are willing to live dorm style. Even then it will probably be $500 per month.

I live in whistler, and didn't realise that this guy had such terrible pay and working arrangments. I would pass this on to some of his clients as his clients tend to be big money people (sight seeing clients from the chateau whistler for example) and I know that the Concierges that arrange these things would start using whistler air if they knew the working conditions at Crappy Mountain Air were such as they are.....but I don't want to put anyone out of a job, even if they are earning $50 per day. Plus, sometimes, just living in that valley is worth anything. It is so amazing there for us outdoor-backcountry-mountain types!

ball left · Post by **ball left** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:28 am

wallypilot,

I agree with what you said 100%..... Firstly, the guys he hires are typically very hard working and obviously business savvy individuals who can drive an aircraft, but most importantly can sell the product. This post isnt supposed to drive people like rampjock (the first poster) out of work, but to make sure that they do know what happens behind the scenes. I have, in the past, been hired on with companies not knowing all the skeletons in their closet. By having threads like this they WILL have a true idea what it is like in the company, and this is something that I have wished for in the past.

I wish there was a way that we could inform his high-end customers like the chateau people and thier chilko lake lodge people of the conditions. Considering where the pilot gets to live for a summer, this could be the cream of light single engine jobs, but with a crappy CP, poor pay, and horrible working conditions, the odds of the conditions changing anytime soon sounds unreasonable.

Obviously I wouldnt recommend Crappy Mountain Air to anyone, and as Wilbur said, if you can live with those conditions and dont mind carrying that company name on your resume for other respecting companies to see, then all the power to ya, i dont envy you. Buy letter fellow pilots know this information mabey one day this company could change for the better.

-Ball left.

Snowking · Post by **Snowking** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:36 am

I have heard of their pilots and Suburban drivers collecting UI while still receiving their $50 a day. His employees are receiving such bad wages that they are forced to collect from the government as well. I don't quite understand how you can be employed but collecting UI as well. Maybe he should pay his employees a little better so that the tax payers aren't forced to subsidize.

RampJock · Post by **RampJock** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:29 am

Gees, I turned them down I have to pay down student loans! but im glad I asked. I cant belive that there are still companies like that out there in this day in age. I thought slavery was over! Sounds like these guys need a visit from Revenue Canada and Transport. Id hate to but pilots out of work but is there ways of reporting these guys or do they just keep getting away with this kind of stuff? I should have my loans almost payed off by this time next year. (then I can afford to be a pilot)

Whats better going to a company that hires u on the ramp and work your way up and have the potential to get on a larger aircraft. or hopping from small carrier untill you can get a break. In the meantime My friend owns a 150 that Im on the Insurance so I can fly as much as I can afford Gas.

level 250 · Post by **level 250** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:50 pm

Well done Ramp Jock.

There is no need to be an underpaid slave in this industry. 50 dollars a day is not realistic for any young professional in any industry. Burger flipping high school kids make more than that in a day and they don't have any credentials.

Aviation is a buisness full of young eager men and women that want to fly regardless of the costs and personal sacrifices involved. However, working for companies like CMA and Regency for free in unethical. Aviation is a hard industry to get into but for every pilot that pays for a ppc or works for free or whatever the nonesense the cma cp told you is only hurting his fellow pilot. We will never irradicate these sub-standard companies unless we stand up to them and refuse to work for them.

It is the simplistic attitudes shared by Kalaynarb and corn-shoot that are a large problem with this industry. Very intelligent responses and nice names. Sounds like you don't mind taking it in the corn shoot maybe you should be working in the back serving the coffee.

Wilbur · Post by **Wilbur** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:18 pm

How do people work for this jackass and collect EI at the same time? Easy, it's called fraud. I simply can not fathom anyone demeaning themselves to the degree that they are willing to commit a criminal act so they can work for free.

Ralliart · Post by **Ralliart** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:51 pm

I can confirm the high prices for accomodation living near Whistler as I pay $750 for a small 1 bedroom basement suite just down the road, plus some of the gas, then all other bills such as telephone, it adds up to at least $800/month just to have a place to live. Although it is a nice place indeed. I'm lucky to have a good paying job otherwise I wouldn't be living in the area.

Good on ya for turning the job down ramp, best of luck for the future, stick with it, keep your morals high, and things will work out.

Cheers
Alex

MurtsAir · Post by **MurtsAir** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:06 pm

Ramp jock email me ill tell ya what there about

Coastal Mountain Air · Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:50 pm

On behalf of the owners and management of Coastal Mountain Air, I would like to take the opportunity to reply to some issues raised in this thread.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion, and I’m glad that there are forums like this one where we can share information that we think will be helpful to fellow pilots.

Let’s not forget that there are always two sides to every story.

Here is our side of the story:

The company hires pilots on a contract basis. There is nothing “fishy” about it. The rate is $50 per day, and the pilot is responsible for paying his own taxes, which of course will amount to little or nothing at such a low pay rate.

There is a common misconception that if you own a flying business you must be rich, or at least raking in big bucks on the backs of the pilots working for you… But in our case I can promise you, nothing is farther from the truth. We honestly wish we could pay our pilots more, but frankly, every pilot who has ever worked at the company has made more money out of the business than the owners.

Think about that.

No one has ever had a gun held to their head and been forced to fly for Coastal Mountain Air. We receive more than 200 unsolicited resumes a year for 2 or 3 positions.

We are trying to survive and build a business that will hopefully be profitable one day. New pilots want to build time. Our pilots last year logged between 200 and 400 hrs each, flying happy tourists between Whistler/Pemberton, Victoria, YVR and Chilko Lake.

Sound like fun? More fun than flying skydivers? Or towing gliders? Or flying up North? We think so. That’s why we, the owners, have been PAYING to do it for the last 4 seasons.

We are just like you guys: we love airplanes and want to fly. And someday, it would be nice to make a living at it, but until then, we are going to keep doing it for the fun and love of flying.

No one is being exploited. No one is being misled. If you don’t like the terms of the contract, don’t come and ask us for a job...

Flying a 172 is never going to be a lucrative career. It is a stepping stone, and we expect pilots to gain experience with us and move on. We wish them well.

By the way, in the summertime, the pilots do at least 2 or 3 times more flying than driving. Most of the summer driving is between the YYJ and downtown Victoria, after flying guests from Whistler. So, yeah, a guy might have to do one hour of driving on a day with a minimum of 2.2 hrs of flying. I honestly don’t think that’s a big negative. Do you?

In the winter time, we pay drivers substantially more than $50 per day. It’s a contract position, paid on a per trip basis. On a busy day with tips a driver can make more than $200. Truth be told, the only reason we got into the driving thing was to keep some cash flow going through the winter. We’re not that crazy about driving either. But we have to pay for insurance, and advertising, brochures, airplanes, maintenance etc etc. and yes, even those meager contract pilot fees.

Current management bought the company in the spring of 2000. Although it was basically just an operating certificate, it was already called Coastal Mountain Airways Ltd. Having customers confuse us with Central Mountain Air and Pacific Coastal is an annoying daily hassle, and if the name wasn’t already established in our market, we would change it to something more unique.

We have put everything we have on the line, and gone way into personal debt to try to build a flying business. The first year the Chief Pilot slept on an air mattress on the floor of the office to make the business work. We’ve gone from 1 to 3 aircraft in 4 seasons and increased the number of hours flown by almost 10 times. We’re proud of that.

Working with Coastal Mountain Air will not make you rich. But it can get you a whole lot of awesome flying for a season or two. Our pilots are often in and out of Vancouver International in the morning and then landing at some pretty challenging grass and gravel strips in the afternoon… flying through the mountains and in lots of different weather conditions.

Personally, I think it’s one of the coolest first flying jobs in the country. True, our 172 is not the right seat in a Twin Otter or a King Air, but you get a bunch of REAL PIC time in really beautiful country, get to meet interesting tourist from all over the world and get to party in the world class resort of Whistler.

We try to create a friendly and fun casual working atmosphere.

That said, we also expect a lot of professionalism and dedication from our pilots while they are with us.

We are trying our best to create something good here at Coastal Mountain Air.

It sucks to hear people slagging us like this.

Sincerely, “One of the tools at Coastal Mountain Air”.

flyinthebug · Post by **flyinthebug** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:51 am

Coastal Mounatin Air.. Well said. I understand the problems you face. At least your willing to pay your pilots , and by the sounds of it, from your own pockets at times. Good on you, and best of luck in your endeavours. You pay better then a certain company pays Capts floggin Ho`s around that area. Either way, its a stand up thing to do to address this publicly as you did.
Fly safe , Cheers

PS.. Remember guys, this job is 2.2 hours flying a 172 and a little driving. Better start point then many of us had isnt it? Rampies make about this amount (actually a bit better at our place but close) and sometimes get 30-40 hours a month in the right seat of a light twin. Not the worst situation ive ever heard of forsure.

Bert · Post by **Bert** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 3:03 pm

I wouldnt slag working up North I rather enjoy it great fishing 24 hour sunlight in the summer. (I get winters off)

and fly in the Carrbean. Get to see all kinds of intersting places that most people will never see because there scared of leaving the big city. I will be back someday but Im enjoying it while I can. Moneys decent alot better than $50 a day. You can always tell the pilots who are just in it for the hours and leave at the first chance they can get. Ill say one thing about this Coastal Mountain Air at least the guy try'd to explain himself. however I find most CP or Owners paint a far brighter picture than it actually is remeber there in it for money and take it with a grain of salt Ive been doing this for a few years now and its the same the world over.

kalaynarb · Post by **kalaynarb** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 2:06 am

...who asked you...bert

DA900 · Post by **DA900** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 2:27 am

Reading this post as others you can slag a company as much as you want, but as long as there are little wanna be pilots that think flying is the end of all ends (instead of a job that it really is) These little keeners will keep companies paying these low wages and hell why not as the CMA guy said we get over 200 resumes a year. I know this is a old argument, but people wake up you created the problem now your living with it.

Bert · Post by **Bert** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:42 pm

Kalaynarb, Read the message by CMA guy he said its better than up North. I dont think this guys ever been up north. And its alot of fun. Unlike others I have a positve view on life. And saying who asked me, well this is a forum to post your thoughts and opinions just as you did.

GO FLAMES GO