Operating crew / Catsa

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

User avatar
C-GGGQ
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2052
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by C-GGGQ »

I mean I worked at YYZ back in 08/09 so maybe its different now. But also YWG and YSJ. I had either a swipe card and or Finger print/ iris Scanner, but no CATSA personnel. Worked all the big international flights. Was one of the first people inside the Emirates A380 in Toronto Cockpit and all for a nice tour. Just flash that shiny Red Raic.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Outlaw58
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by Outlaw58 »

Always makes me chuckle when they want to confiscate my Swiss army knife when I have a huge crash axe behind my seat :)

58
---------- ADS -----------
 
goingnowherefast
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1948
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by goingnowherefast »

digits_ wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:58 am
goingnowherefast wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:51 am Pilots are handed the "keys" to the airplane. Isn't airport security only there as an illusion that they help prevent unauthorized people from accessing the flight deck?

I'd be pissed if security inconvenienced me in accessing the flight deck. I am the very person who's control of the flight deck they are supposedly protecting.
Of course. But don't you think a lot of frequent travellers think the same? I'd guess that the majority of the passengers find the security thing ridiculous. That doesn't mean you can just one sidedly decide you are too important to wait in line and waltz through any line you choose. And if you do, then don't be surprised the security people don't like it.

Also, the linked document was the policy for deadheading and commuting crew. They haven't been handed the "keys" to the airplane.
'Murica, land of hyper-security, they have the Known Crew Member program. Not only does it lessen the inconvenience, it even saves the TSA time and money not dealing with a group (pilots) that poses no threat. Frequent travellers probably realise why they are being screened. I'm not sure anybody knows why pilots are being screened. We all have RAICs that say "pilot" right on them. As outlaw58 said, security can take away my swiss army knife, but there's an axe already in the plane.
---------- ADS -----------
 
mbav8r
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:11 am
Location: Manitoba

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by mbav8r »

You should re read that paragraph, it says expedited via nexus lane, family lane or taken to the front of the queue and from experience, clarifying it with a manager on duty, the queue is basically where the line starts not the front of the line.
That being said, some CATSA workers are better than others, some are down right disrespectful pieces of crap on your shoe, who are unable to keep their bias towards aircrew from how they do their job.
I try to be pleasant to everybody I deal with and simply go straight to a manager to report how I was treated after I get through, not going to argue with someone who can’t remain professional, who also can take my RAIC if I do.
---------- ADS -----------
 
"Stand-by, I'm inverted"
tps8903
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:40 pm

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by tps8903 »

mbav8r wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:18 pm You should re read that paragraph, it says expedited via nexus lane, family lane or taken to the front of the queue and from experience, clarifying it with a manager on duty, the queue is basically where the line starts not the front of the line.
That being said, some CATSA workers are better than others, some are down right disrespectful pieces of crap on your shoe, who are unable to keep their bias towards aircrew from how they do their job.
I try to be pleasant to everybody I deal with and simply go straight to a manager to report how I was treated after I get through, not going to argue with someone who can’t remain professional, who also can take my RAIC if I do.
CATSA only has the authority to seize your RAIC if it's expired, reported lost or stolen, deactivated, or you refuse to be searched.

They can't seize it just because they don't like you.
---------- ADS -----------
 
mbav8r
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:11 am
Location: Manitoba

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by mbav8r »

tps8903 wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:56 pm
mbav8r wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:18 pm You should re read that paragraph, it says expedited via nexus lane, family lane or taken to the front of the queue and from experience, clarifying it with a manager on duty, the queue is basically where the line starts not the front of the line.
That being said, some CATSA workers are better than others, some are down right disrespectful pieces of crap on your shoe, who are unable to keep their bias towards aircrew from how they do their job.
I try to be pleasant to everybody I deal with and simply go straight to a manager to report how I was treated after I get through, not going to argue with someone who can’t remain professional, who also can take my RAIC if I do.
CATSA only has the authority to seize your RAIC if it's expired, reported lost or stolen, deactivated, or you refuse to be searched.

They can't seize it just because they don't like you.
So why is it in YYC, you are required to put your RAIC in the bin when going through NPS? We received a memo about complying with this. It’s about care and control and once seized, you will now have to try and get it back, point is they can make your life difficult.
---------- ADS -----------
 
"Stand-by, I'm inverted"
tps8903
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:40 pm

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by tps8903 »

mbav8r wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:18 pm
tps8903 wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:56 pm
mbav8r wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:18 pm You should re read that paragraph, it says expedited via nexus lane, family lane or taken to the front of the queue and from experience, clarifying it with a manager on duty, the queue is basically where the line starts not the front of the line.
That being said, some CATSA workers are better than others, some are down right disrespectful pieces of crap on your shoe, who are unable to keep their bias towards aircrew from how they do their job.
I try to be pleasant to everybody I deal with and simply go straight to a manager to report how I was treated after I get through, not going to argue with someone who can’t remain professional, who also can take my RAIC if I do.
CATSA only has the authority to seize your RAIC if it's expired, reported lost or stolen, deactivated, or you refuse to be searched.

They can't seize it just because they don't like you.
So why is it in YYC, you are required to put your RAIC in the bin when going through NPS? We received a memo about complying with this. It’s about care and control and once seized, you will now have to try and get it back, point is they can make your life difficult.
If had this argument with CATSA in YYZ regarding the exact same thing. Asking us to remove our ID and proceed through the metal detector is in violation of the legislation. Once you go into NPS or screening in general you are in a restricted area without the proper documentation. See below.

You'll get a dumbfounded stare. But the regulations are clear.

Restricted area identity cards — conditions of use

166 (1) A person to whom a restricted area identity card has been issued must not enter or remain in a restricted area unless

(a) they are acting in the course of their employment;

(b) the card is in their possession;

(c) the card is active;
---------- ADS -----------
 
mbav8r
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:11 am
Location: Manitoba

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by mbav8r »

tps8903 wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:36 pm
mbav8r wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:18 pm
tps8903 wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:56 pm

CATSA only has the authority to seize your RAIC if it's expired, reported lost or stolen, deactivated, or you refuse to be searched.

They can't seize it just because they don't like you.
So why is it in YYC, you are required to put your RAIC in the bin when going through NPS? We received a memo about complying with this. It’s about care and control and once seized, you will now have to try and get it back, point is they can make your life difficult.
If had this argument with CATSA in YYZ regarding the exact same thing. Asking us to remove our ID and proceed through the metal detector is in violation of the legislation. Once you go into NPS or screening in general you are in a restricted area without the proper documentation. See below.

You'll get a dumbfounded stare. But the regulations are clear.

Restricted area identity cards — conditions of use

166 (1) A person to whom a restricted area identity card has been issued must not enter or remain in a restricted area unless

(a) they are acting in the course of their employment;

(b) the card is in their possession;

(c) the card is active;
Further to that, in uniform in the sterile area you must display the RAIC on the upper part of your body, had the same argument to no avail.
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by altiplano »

mbav8r wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:18 pm You should re read that paragraph, it says expedited via nexus lane, family lane or taken to the front of the queue and from experience, clarifying it with a manager on duty, the queue is basically where the line starts not the front of the line.
That being said, some CATSA workers are better than others, some are down right disrespectful pieces of crap on your shoe, who are unable to keep their bias towards aircrew from how they do their job.
I try to be pleasant to everybody I deal with and simply go straight to a manager to report how I was treated after I get through, not going to argue with someone who can’t remain professional, who also can take my RAIC if I do.
Front of the queue isn't back of the line IMO...

Smile, say hello, and go to the front for immediate screening.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Daniel Cooper
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:38 am
Location: Unknown

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by Daniel Cooper »

.80@410 wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:55 pm
I’ll be using this TC bulletin to trump their memo when I pass through Yyz.
This will end well.
---------- ADS -----------
 
MRP
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:36 am

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by MRP »

mbav8r wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:18 pm
tps8903 wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:56 pm
mbav8r wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:18 pm You should re read that paragraph, it says expedited via nexus lane, family lane or taken to the front of the queue and from experience, clarifying it with a manager on duty, the queue is basically where the line starts not the front of the line.
That being said, some CATSA workers are better than others, some are down right disrespectful pieces of crap on your shoe, who are unable to keep their bias towards aircrew from how they do their job.
I try to be pleasant to everybody I deal with and simply go straight to a manager to report how I was treated after I get through, not going to argue with someone who can’t remain professional, who also can take my RAIC if I do.
CATSA only has the authority to seize your RAIC if it's expired, reported lost or stolen, deactivated, or you refuse to be searched.

They can't seize it just because they don't like you.
So why is it in YYC, you are required to put your RAIC in the bin when going through NPS? We received a memo about complying with this. It’s about care and control and once seized, you will now have to try and get it back, point is they can make your life difficult.
Here’s how “RAIC in the bin” came about.

A few months after the randomizer was introduced to the NPS in YVR domestic NPS there was an incedent where a pilot got the red X and refused to be screened. He then grabbed his bags and exited back to the food court area. If you enter the NPS you MUST to be screened if you get the red X so it was a big deal that this guy “escaped”. Within a week or so the rules were changed requiring us to put our RAIC in the bin while being screened at NPS at all airports across Canada.
---------- ADS -----------
 
MRP
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:36 am

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by MRP »

And as far as the “restricted area” is concerned. The NPS facility is not a restricted area, the NPS allows you to enter the restricted area. This is why they can have you remove your RAIC.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ant_321
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 849
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:43 pm

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by ant_321 »

MRP wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:29 pm
mbav8r wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:18 pm
tps8903 wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:56 pm

CATSA only has the authority to seize your RAIC if it's expired, reported lost or stolen, deactivated, or you refuse to be searched.

They can't seize it just because they don't like you.
So why is it in YYC, you are required to put your RAIC in the bin when going through NPS? We received a memo about complying with this. It’s about care and control and once seized, you will now have to try and get it back, point is they can make your life difficult.
Here’s how “RAIC in the bin” came about.

A few months after the randomizer was introduced to the NPS in YVR domestic NPS there was an incedent where a pilot got the red X and refused to be screened. He then grabbed his bags and exited back to the food court area. If you enter the NPS you MUST to be screened if you get the red X so it was a big deal that this guy “escaped”. Within a week or so the rules were changed requiring us to put our RAIC in the bin while being screened at NPS at all airports across Canada.
Not all airports. I have never removed my RAIC at yyz.
---------- ADS -----------
 
lostaviator
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:42 pm

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by lostaviator »

None of you are going to live long enough to enjoy retirement if you keep worrying about stuff like this.

I show up, and stand in line. If it takes 30 minutes, my flight is delayed 30 minutes. If I want a coffee, it’s 40 minutes delayed (60 in yyz cause they hire some especially slow people there).

A few individual pilots going out of their way to argue with catsa agents isn’t going to bring change; corporate pressure brought on by delayed flights will be what brings change.
---------- ADS -----------
 
MRP
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:36 am

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by MRP »

ant_321 wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:32 pm
MRP wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:29 pm
mbav8r wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:18 pm
So why is it in YYC, you are required to put your RAIC in the bin when going through NPS? We received a memo about complying with this. It’s about care and control and once seized, you will now have to try and get it back, point is they can make your life difficult.
Here’s how “RAIC in the bin” came about.

A few months after the randomizer was introduced to the NPS in YVR domestic NPS there was an incedent where a pilot got the red X and refused to be screened. He then grabbed his bags and exited back to the food court area. If you enter the NPS you MUST to be screened if you get the red X so it was a big deal that this guy “escaped”. Within a week or so the rules were changed requiring us to put our RAIC in the bin while being screened at NPS at all airports across Canada.
Not all airports. I have never removed my RAIC at yyz.
I guess either you’re lucky or I just look suspicious. Yesterday yyz T1 domestic NPS I got the red arrow. I was asked to put mine in the bin.
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by altiplano »

I put mine in my pocket before they see it on my shirt and ask for it in the bin.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Donald
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2368
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:34 am
Location: Canada

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by Donald »

If you go through bypass in YWG, there is ONE catsa agent who refuses to scan your raic while you are wearing it. He insists on you removing it, scanning it, then putting it back on. Power trip much?
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
C-GGGQ
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2052
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by C-GGGQ »

That's exactly what all this is. Power trips.
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by altiplano »

I agree it's power trips... wait in line, RAIC in bin, pull your bag for additional checking, show me POS DH on your boarding card, etc, etc.

But about the removal before scanning thing... I know there was an accusation of a commissioner in YHZ groping an FA and that practise came after that.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ahramin
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 6309
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:21 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Operating crew / Catsa

Post by ahramin »

MRP wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:29 pm
mbav8r wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:18 pm
tps8903 wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:56 pm

CATSA only has the authority to seize your RAIC if it's expired, reported lost or stolen, deactivated, or you refuse to be searched.

They can't seize it just because they don't like you.
So why is it in YYC, you are required to put your RAIC in the bin when going through NPS? We received a memo about complying with this. It’s about care and control and once seized, you will now have to try and get it back, point is they can make your life difficult.
Here’s how “RAIC in the bin” came about.

A few months after the randomizer was introduced to the NPS in YVR domestic NPS there was an incedent where a pilot got the red X and refused to be screened. He then grabbed his bags and exited back to the food court area. If you enter the NPS you MUST to be screened if you get the red X so it was a big deal that this guy “escaped”. Within a week or so the rules were changed requiring us to put our RAIC in the bin while being screened at NPS at all airports across Canada.
How was that supposed to prevent the original incident? If the person refused to put their bags through the scanner, I'm doubtful that they would put their RAIC in the scanner before escaping.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”