Canadian housing Prices / Wages

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rookiepilot
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by rookiepilot »

Another thought on housing:

Blame rent control. Yeah really. Blame the government.

Why would anyone build rental housing when they can't ever raise prices?

Since they brought it in over here -- several big rental projects -- cancelled.

Rent control always makes it worse. Every time.

The free market works.
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digits_
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by digits_ »

rookiepilot wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:19 pm Another thought on housing:

Blame rent control. Yeah really. Blame the government.

Why would anyone build rental housing when they can't ever raise prices?

Since they brought it in over here -- several big rental projects -- cancelled.

Rent control always makes it worse. Every time.

The free market works.
I agree with you on that one. It might work as a short term solution for people currently renting to save money, but it does prevent other rental projects from being built and thus closes the rental market to new renters, unless someone leaves the rental market. In a growing population, it screws people over.
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by mmm..bacon »

digits_ wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:57 pm Yup. That would actually solve the problem. If people move, eventually wages would have to go up or housing prices would need to come down.
Ain't gonna happen in Vancouver. It's seen as being a nice place to live, internationally; air and water are clean, politics are stable, crime is negligible, etc...those things will continue to keep housing prices elevated. Perhaps not to the extent that they were in 2016, but I don't see SFH in the inner munis going below $1M any time...
As for wages (in an aviation context) going up - well, Jazz and WJE have proved that there's a huge supply of millennials ready to take it dry, and live in poverty in basements in order to get a chance to go to the big bux at mainline..
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by altiplano »

I remember in the good old days in Vancouver, my grow op in the spare room subsidized my low wage and high cost of living...

After 9/11 when prices went down it got a little harder, but I adjusted, although eventually opportunity took me off the coast...

I can only imagine now, with cheap and legal marijuana, the challenges of supporting yourself on an entry level job and salary... get a roommate? that only covers half the rent... and you have to put up with them... nothing like a grow op! Quiet and lots of fresh air from all those plants... didn't need to turn the heat on in the winter either. Those were the days...
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by rookiepilot »

digits_ wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:21 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:19 pm Another thought on housing:

Blame rent control. Yeah really. Blame the government.

Why would anyone build rental housing when they can't ever raise prices?

Since they brought it in over here -- several big rental projects -- cancelled.

Rent control always makes it worse. Every time.

The free market works.
I agree with you on that one. It might work as a short term solution for people currently renting to save money, but it does prevent other rental projects from being built and thus closes the rental market to new renters, unless someone leaves the rental market. In a growing population, it screws people over.
I find people are complete hypocrites on housing.

They all want cheaper houinsg, but only until they themselves get in to the market.

Then everyone turns 180 and they love rent control, they are against higher density, higher condo buildings, against tighter mortgage regulations, all of which when allowed, would moderate prices. They are same group they squeals on their neighbors, and fight allowing legal basement suites.

Why? Cause everyone's house is now their RETIREMENT plan, and housing going up in value is their guaranteed RIGHT.

No, it isn't.

High rises in YYZ and YVR should be jammed together, and upwards of 80 - 100 stories each. Build em' and jam in the transit lines. Change the zoning regs. Densify, densify.

Wreck your long established view of the north shore mountains? Tough! Views aren't a right.
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by Lotro »

If there are any young people reading this, the smartest thing you can do in today's stupid economy is get work (preferably transferable work - I like trades) and live in a market that's cheap to live in. I moved out of Toronto twice in life, and both times my quality of life and financial situation improved dramatically.

There are cities (not as many as we might like) where you can live on minimum wage, heck, even buy a decent house. Finding work is usually the problem, but you know, I've never met a hungry plumber, or electrician, or auto mechanic, or even drywaller.

If you want to be a pilot, try to stay away from YYZ, airlines have bases elsewhere, or work the commuting thing out of a spot that's cheaper to live.

The average price of homes sold in Sudbury in June 2019 was $283,614.
The average price of homes sold in Sault Ste. Marie in June 2019 was $188,598.
The median sale price for single detached homes in Thunder Bay in June 2019 was $253,000.
The average price of homes sold in Cornwall in June 2019 was $233,730.

(I realize buying a house on minimum wage isn't really attainable, even in these markets).

Live where you can afford to live.
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by 7ECA »

rookiepilot wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:19 pm The free market works.
Except when it died a rather painful death in 1929, and couldn't be resuscitated for fear of mass revolt. Face it, ever since Black Tuesday there hasn't been a "free market". The reason is instability, instability that would quickly spiral out of control and lead to a bloody revolt. Instead, intervention in the economy has become the norm to try and promote some semblance of stability - of course this hasn't worked all that well with recessions every seven years on average. Mind you, greed never sleeps, but I digress...

As for the pro-CBC and NDP comment; sure I don't mind the CBC they often try and present both sides of issues - listen to the radio from time to time and the call in shows have folks from left and right speaking their minds as well as the experts presenting their opinions, etc. NDP, well, sure I give them credit for trying to do something about the influence of foreign money being laundered freely through casinos and real estate. I know of an area with multiple acreages (and larger multi-acre lots as well) that up until the law was passed, that sold multiple times each year - revolving door realty, nothing suspicious there. Finally getting rid of the only province in the country where workers pay MSP premiums label was welcomed as well. Frankly, it was well past due to send the Liberals on a vacation for a few years as any party that is in power for more than a couple of election cycles rather quickly becomes arrogant, flagrantly corrupt and most certainly morally bankrupt. Churchill was quite right when he quipped about politicians and governments being rather like diapers, needing changing regularly and often for the same reasons.
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by rookiepilot »

7ECA wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:13 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:19 pm The free market works.
As for the pro-CBC and NDP comment; sure I don't mind the CBC they often try and present both sides of issues - listen to the radio from time to time and the call in shows have folks from left and right speaking their minds as well as the experts presenting their opinions, etc. NDP, well, sure I give them credit for trying to do something about the influence of foreign money being laundered freely through casinos and real estate.
CBC -- only hysterical when an airline complaints story comes on....anyway.

Money laundering? Please. Could have been done a LONG time ago. They only acted under extreme duress.

I seriously doubt it's been cut off by any means. Way, too much money........

View corridors seem more important than affordable housing:

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/vancouver- ... ipId=64268


But none of that's in our control. I'm trying to focus on what is, to survive and then thrive.
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by 7ECA »

rookiepilot wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:06 pm Money laundering? Please. Could have been done a LONG time ago. They only acted under extreme duress.

I seriously doubt it's been cut off by any means. Way, too much money........
Indeed, and it should have been done years ago - and yet a certain someone who was Premier at the time didn't seem to mind getting campaign donations and what not from realtors and their associations...

For sure it hasn't stopped, maybe been curtailed a little. At the very least it seems to have gone even further underground.
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by BE20 Driver »

rookiepilot wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:19 pm Another thought on housing:

Blame rent control. Yeah really. Blame the government.

Why would anyone build rental housing when they can't ever raise prices?

Since they brought it in over here -- several big rental projects -- cancelled.

Rent control always makes it worse. Every time.

The free market works.
I bought my first house at 23. It required a $7000 down payment at the time. I wasn't earning minimum wage, but not much more at the time. I felt like I was never going to get out of debt.
Bought my second house at 28 with the equity built from my first place. Required a hell of a lot more money down and at the time I felt like my payments going to break me. I held onto the first place because once I moved out and rented the other room, it made money. Been a landlord ever since and couldn't agree more with what has been said above.

I belong to several real estate investment groups. I don't know a single landlord that wants to do the bare minimum and just rent a cheap room in a slum house. Nearly every day I come across a post from another landlord who has had enough with crappy tenants and the socialist Landlord/Tenant boards and government policies that force landlords to slowly drive their places into slums. Most landlord expenses go up by 5-10% per year. Guess how much we can increase rent by - 1.8%. Little bit of a shortfall there. Now guess where that gets made up? Renovation and capital expenditures.

Public policy needs to be tailored to encourage development and densification. Secondary suites need to be encouraged in existing housing stock. When prices went through the roof in Australia and New Zealand recently, people subdivided their lots, tore up their back yards and built another house. It helped (not the final/complete solution) to keep rent prices in check. Everyone here would start crying NIMBY with the increased densification. You want to keep rent prices down - build more housing stock. Problem is that our system of social justice actually works to discourage further development.

I once ran into a CSA who told me that she just couldn't afford rent in Vancouver on her airline pay cheque. She decided to move into her van and shower at the gym. I immediately had two thoughts - first the airline needs to pay a little closer to a livable wage. Second there's no way in hell I would ever "live" in my van. That's not living. Especially when you work for a national airline and could easily transfer to another base while keeping your wage and YOS. Go all the way to the other coast if you like and you can probably buy a house (or two) and live like a queen. In this industry you can afford to get back to YVR cheaply to visit friends and family when you want. This assumes that you don't just move out to Abbotsford where rent is half what it is in vancouver. No one is forcing you to live in downtown YVR or YYZ.

I recently read an article that pointed out that Canada has historically had one of the highest rates of home ownership in the developed world. I believe it was somewhere around 70/30 ownership to rent. Most other countries have it the other way around with the majority of the population renting. I think maybe we are seeing the beginnings of a change in the system.
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by rookiepilot »

BE 20

The problem is -- good public policy isn't (usually) popular, so as with most things, the problem isn't with government, it's with us.

Everyone is a NIMBY.

It's interesting to consider: who was to blame for the US housing crash? Big banks? Yeah, culpable, but I don't think so, at the core.

Look here. Government (wisely I think) tightened mortgage requirements years ago. Very smart. Very prudent.

Since then, CREA and others have lobbied none stop for them to be loosened again. Including advertising! No different than what happened in the US.

This, along with any type of lobbying, should be illegal to do publicly. It's potentially election tampering, for one.

CREA only cares about their agents commission business, not affordability or housing stability.

More credit is never the answer.

While we are on real estate, TREB here should be hammered by regulators for stalling and fighting public access to sales data. It's one reason, privacy, fake bids, the whole game, real estate has become so overheated.
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by complexintentions »

LegoMan wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:48 am I left the industry 10 years ago and maybe thats the only reason I can afford my own home today. We'll see how it goes when I get back in. But yea, it's not just aviation, wages are stagnant almost everywhere.
I left Canada over 10 years ago and I can easily afford my own home. Just don't want one in Canada anymore, the value in the property markets that I could live in just isn't there. Learned how to invest intelligently (hint: it's really boring and slow) and realized that owning can be a terrible investment just as easily as it can be a lottery ticket. Had a front-row seat to absolutely epic property gains and losses in Dubai. Decided I'd rather make my own luck than try and strike it rich with one swing at the fences. Real estate is like a cult in Canada. People were stupid enough to think that overpriced houses bought with cheap money is a better idea than inexpensive houses bought with expensive money. Problem with that is, housing prices stagnate or reverse and the debt stays the same. Oops. It's somewhat pleasing to see many slowly beginning to realize their paper gains are slowing and reversing. And are only on paper. Gotta sell that ticket and move to Regina if you want to harvest the gain, yo! All that crap bought on the LOC isn't really yours, hope it was worth it. Housing speccers are like gamblers, love to brag their wins but never want to talk about their losses. Let's just say it's gotten a lot quieter. :lol:

If you're willing to move to where the work is, there are options. They aren't without risk or sacrifice but the whole hand-wringing thing about how it's SO HARD in Canada gets on my nerves a bit. Think it's easy anywhere? There are sure a lot more places where it's harder.

rookiepilot nails it. Everyone loves socialist policy when it benefits them, they just have no idea how much it costs them. The ZIRP era was criminal. A debt orgy that will have massive repercussions for decades to come. Millennials think they have it bad? Just wait till their kids (try to) enter the job market. Turns out houses don't always go up, and each generation doesn't always do better than the last. One of the best days in Canadian history will be when the RE cartel is finally destroyed and there's actual proper price discovery. Better hope you aren't counting on your crappily-built house as your only retirement plan at that point.

And the idea that the "free market died in 1929" is stupid. Supply and demand principles are still sound, the fact that they're manipulated so heavily in the Socialist Republic of Trudeaustan means one has to adapt. Not sit in place whining or attending silly protests that accomplish nothing.
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by rookiepilot »

Complex, re ZIRP,

It's going to get even crazier before this cycle is over.

It's why Gold is finally moving.........
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by C-GGGQ »

While I agree on your hypocritical home owners view, I have to disagree with the whole density thing. Everyone's complaint is they can't afford a HOUSE. No one wants to live in a high rise forever. Ruining neighborhoods with high rises just turns us into the overcrowded cities in Asia etc. With 100 year multi generation mortgages. People always say "Canada has tons of room" not if we want it to stay the nice place people want to live. The fact you can get a nice detached home in a quiet neighborhood is something you can't really get in a lot of other places.
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by KarinaLloyd »

All countries in the world are divided into areas where it is much more expensive to live than in others. Usually, in the country's economic centers of the country life is much more expensive; the difference for the same services can be 2 times. I work in real estate and have long noticed this pattern. But even in the,, cheap" areas can sell real estate more expensive if you go to https://onstage-online.com/our-services. Because buyers always pay attention to the house's interior, this is an important factor when buying a home.
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Last edited by KarinaLloyd on Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by vanislepilot »

KarinaLloyd wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 2:47 pm All countries in the world are divided into areas where it is much more expensive to live than in others. Usually, in the country's economic centers of the country life is much more expensive; the difference for the same services can be 2 times. I work in real estate and have long noticed this pattern.
Who would of thought, a place where demand to live is high would be more expensive!

The issue comes when speculation and cheap money are in play.

Also, why are people providing stats on homes in YAM or YSB. Are the majors opening bases there? Didn't think so.
Commuting from a tiny town in the middle of nowhere is such a crap solution to this crisis. Young people are getting screwed left and right. Even with good saving and investing habits it is near impossible to get a roof over your head. People are literally not having kids anymore. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the housing crisis is the everything crisis!
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by vanislepilot »

KarinaLloyd wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 2:47 pm All countries in the world are divided into areas where it is much more expensive to live than in others. Usually, in the country's economic centers of the country life is much more expensive; the difference for the same services can be 2 times. I work in real estate and have long noticed this pattern.
Who would of thought, a place where demand to live is high would be more expensive!

The issue comes when speculation and cheap money are in play.

Also, why are people providing stats on homes in YAM or YSB. Are the majors opening bases there? Didn't think so.
Commuting from a tiny town in the middle of nowhere is such a crap solution to this crisis. Young people are getting screwed left and right. Even with good saving and investing habits it is near impossible to get a roof over your head. People are literally not having kids anymore. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the housing crisis is the everything crisis!
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by WellThatAgedWell »

vanislepilot wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 5:42 am The issue comes when speculation and cheap money are in play.
I think you are spot on.

Here’s a good podcast that relates.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3Bej18 ... E_9VZSmdPw

Or search on other platforms:

PBD Podcast - The father of quantitative easing - Richard Werner
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by KarinaLloyd »

All countries in the world are divided into areas where it is much more expensive to live than in others. Usually, in the country's economic centers of the country life is much more expensive; the difference for the same services can be 2 times.
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Re: Canadian housing Prices / Wages

Post by GhostRider6 »

Whine, whine, whine.. a millennial specialty.

No generation has had it better…

Astronomically high wages, unions, pensions, low hiring requirements, ( 200 hour pilots at airlines )

Inflation is a global phenomena that occurs yearly… it happens! It’s a fact of life. Inflation is happening on a global scale right now. It’s not a Canadian phenomena. Our government is in an impossible situation after having to hand hold businesses and it’s citizens through an economic roadbump.

Our generation scrimped and saved… this wouldn’t have happened in our day. Citizens would have been able to support themselves…

Every penny counts…that’s how one gets ahead scrimping and saving.

No more $5 lattes folks!

If you want that $5 latte ? Go and get a second job or two.

Want that million dollar home? Don’t buy it.. rent that $200-300 / month basement suite. Count your Cents ….

Need a new vehicle ? Buy the 1995 Oldsmobile and put a few thousand into it and viola a new car!

Stop calling in sick once a week!

That’s how you get ahead …


When the financial meltdown happens .. and it will thank and millennial and their extravagant lifestyles. ( which many have documented)

The world does not owe you a lavish lifestyle… If you want that lavish lifestyle scrimp and save .
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