Westjet Delta JV

[chromeuser]

What sorts of expansion may we be expecting once everything is said and done? Will Encore see changes to accommodate this partnership?

[seriousflyer]

We need the max for alot of Westjet network growth, but what we will see through the JV is alot of growth in our load factor on our wide bodies to international destinations. We already have exceeded our widebody loadfactors targets for an intial launch. With that being said, flying 10 widebodies full time throughout all seasons and markets takes good solid feeds and alot of feeds. If Westjet orders another 10 WB, think about the feed required, thousands of travelers, canadians and americans, to fill those seats to make the load factor consistenly full, is what the JV is primarily providing WJ. One perspective.
AC is did the same with United JV.

[Commonwealth]

I see in the ALPA magazine Delta pilots have asked the DOT to consider scope protections if the JV is approved.

[derateNO]

As they should.

I don't want to see WJ pilots doing what used to be Delta flying for 1/5th the cost.

[goingnowherefast]

WJ should pay Delta rates

[altiplano]

AC should pay Delta rates, SWA rates are for WJ.

We should all be seeking to earn what our colleagues to the South are making. They are still making gains while we wallow in Canadian mediocrity.

[Blue42]

WJ should pay Delta rates

We’ll be getting Delta rates now that ALPA is here.......oh wait, never mind....

[Duke Point]

We need the max for alot of Westjet network growth, but what we will see through the JV is alot of growth in our load factor on our wide bodies to international destinations. We already have exceeded our widebody loadfactors targets for an intial launch. With that being said, flying 10 widebodies full time throughout all seasons and markets takes good solid feeds and alot of feeds. If Westjet orders another 10 WB, think about the feed required, thousands of travelers, canadians and americans, to fill those seats to make the load factor consistenly full, is what the JV is primarily providing WJ. One perspective.
AC is did the same with United JV.

You're nuts if you think a well organized pilot group like those at Delta are going to let WestJet siphon off long haul feed. WestJet expansion at the cost of Delta jobs just isn't going to happen. Dream big though.

They're way to savy for that.

DP.

[47north]

[/quote]

You're nuts if you think a well organized pilot group like those at Delta are going to let WestJet siphon off long haul feed. WestJet expansion at the cost of Delta jobs just isn't going to happen. Dream big though.

They're way to savy for that.

DP.
[/quote]

I would agree. Ask any former Canadian pilots how the distribution of flying worked out with the AA pilots.

[Transonic]

No one at WestJet has dreams of taking flying away from Delta.

The JV gives Delta a competitive response to the Air Canada/Rouge encroachment into the US, which hasn’t gone unnoticed by the Big US3.

In the past 5 years, Air Canada added 30 or so more widebodies over the Atlantic. The US3 don’t like that and with the JV, Delta can fight back.

[derateNO]

Lol whatever you say.

['97 Tercel]

yeah, so there

[goingnowherefast]

It makes sense. All 6th Freedom stuff. Want to fly Seattle to JFK? Book on AC connect through YYZ. The big US 3 are right to be pissed.

AC is also feeding US travellers through YYZ and YUL to Europe and through YVR to Asia. Problem is AC needs to serve a ton of US cities. Delta wants to feed it's international routes with WJ as the feeder from the Canadian market. Want to fly from Saskatoon to Asia? Go YXE to YYC on WJ then connect on Delta to Seattle and on to Asia. Benefit is Delta doesn't need to serve as many Canadian cities, everything gets fed into a few key Canadian cities and off one of their international hubs. They've got that Canadian feeder network outsourced and piggybacking on WJ.

[Sharklasers]

It makes sense. All 6th Freedom stuff. Want to fly Seattle to JFK? Book on AC connect through YYZ. The big US 3 are right to be pissed.

AC is also feeding US travellers through YYZ and YUL to Europe and through YVR to Asia. Problem is AC needs to serve a ton of US cities. Delta wants to feed it's international routes with WJ as the feeder from the Canadian market. Want to fly from Saskatoon to Asia? Go YXE to YYC on WJ then connect on Delta to Seattle and on to Asia. Benefit is Delta doesn't need to serve as many Canadian cities, everything gets fed into a few key Canadian cities and off one of their international hubs. They've got that Canadian feeder network outsourced and piggybacking on WJ.

Except your first scenario is cabotage and is illegal and doesn’t happen. The booking software won’t allow it.

[altiplano]

I don't see cabotage there...

SEA-JFK via YYZ?

You could do that whole trip on an American or Canadian carrier or a combination of. That's all 3rd and 4th freedom stuff...

Cabotage would be AC operating SEA-JFK direct.

[goingnowherefast]

I didn't believe it either until I tried to book that on AC's website. It didn't let me, so Sharklaser is correct. You could make 2 seperate bookings. That's a PITA and nobody will do that.

Still permitted to book SEA - YYZ - LHR on AC where the big US 3 want you to book the trip with them.

The Delta JV will allow you to book on WJ to go YXE - YYC (switch to DAL) - JFK - LHR. WJ gets a domestic passenger and Delta gets international passenger. The other option would be to book on AC and go YXE - YYC - YYZ - LHR

[jpilot77]

Well actually the options on AC are YXE-YYZ-LHR or YXE-YYC-LHR

[altiplano]

I didn't believe it either until I tried to book that on AC's website. It didn't let me, so Sharklaser is correct. You could make 2 seperate bookings. That's a PITA and nobody will do that.

Interesting. Maybe it is as a single itinerary. Or is that a limitation of the booking sight? Or an agreement to not allow bookings like that? Connecting through your home country should exclude it as cabotage I would have thought.

[derateNO]

I didn't believe it either until I tried to book that on AC's website. It didn't let me, so Sharklaser is correct. You could make 2 seperate bookings. That's a PITA and nobody will do that.

Still permitted to book SEA - YYZ - LHR on AC where the big US 3 want you to book the trip with them.

The Delta JV will allow you to book on WJ to go YXE - YYC (switch to DAL) - JFK - LHR. WJ gets a domestic passenger and Delta gets international passenger. The other option would be to book on AC and go YXE - YYC - YYZ - LHR

Why would Delta be trying to use WJ lift to fly overseas?

It makes zero sense.

It makes more sense from AC's perspective to use the regional lift to access the USA market and bring them to Canada. But for Delta to be the lift that brings Americans to fly on Canadian aircraft overseas doesn't' make sense to me.

[goingnowherefast]

I didn't believe it either until I tried to book that on AC's website. It didn't let me, so Sharklaser is correct. You could make 2 seperate bookings. That's a PITA and nobody will do that.

Still permitted to book SEA - YYZ - LHR on AC where the big US 3 want you to book the trip with them.

The Delta JV will allow you to book on WJ to go YXE - YYC (switch to DAL) - JFK - LHR. WJ gets a domestic passenger and Delta gets international passenger. The other option would be to book on AC and go YXE - YYC - YYZ - LHR

Why would Delta be trying to use WJ lift to fly overseas?

It makes zero sense.

It makes more sense from AC's perspective to use the regional lift to access the USA market and bring them to Canada. But for Delta to be the lift that brings Americans to fly on Canadian aircraft overseas doesn't' make sense to me.

That's not what I said. Fly from Canadian city to Canadian city on WJ. Hop on a Delta plane to fly from CanadiancCity to US city. Continue on Delta plane from US city to international city. WJ isn't doing anything international. Example: with WJ, fly YXE - YYC. Then change to Delta to fly YYC - JFK - LHR.

That way Delta doesn't have to send a plane to YXE for the limited demmand that they would get. Outsource that to piggyback on WJs domestic network.