Any updates on training?

[sk1996]

I just received an invite to an in-person test which I was super excited about - until I saw that it's next week. Unfortunately, I don't think I can attend unless I take a day off of work but we're super busy at the moment, and even if I did the stress of this busy period would probably hamper my performance.

I was hoping to get some clarification if anyone is more familiar:
1) Is it reasonable to assume that because in my email they said something along the lines of "we had a few extra spots so we decided to invite you" on such short notice, it would mean that I was probably below the online test cut-off for the "normal" invites, and they just happened to invite me as well since they had extra space? If I don't take it, do you think that there is a low chance I will get invited later on as well because this time it just seems that I was lucky to not have others who scored better than me attend?
2) Does anyone know when the next set of these in-person tests (specifically YYZ) would be, and if these in-person tests run on Saturdays/Sundays or only on weekdays?

1. That's probably a good assumption. When I did my test I was told they were doing a lot of hiring this year, plus they may be having an issue with no-shows, so they've expanded eligibility.
I have no idea if you'll get invited later but, if I were you, I would see it as an opportunity and take it.
2. At the FIR I applied to, they have two intakes per year. I would assume this means they only test twice per year. When I signed up I didn't see any weekend testing.

Thanks, seeing that answer to 1) really sucks considering that I can't really take the opportunity, but I appreciate you confirming my suspicion. I may try to get out of work on one of the 2 days which were available but it's not looking like that will be possible.

This is for YYZ right? May I ask when you interviewed / how long after the interview they offered you the spot?

[yoshi91]

I’m assuming the invite is for FEAST. In my opinion you should go, is one day off work worth it to have a shot at an amazing career? If you’re that concerned about not being in the right mindset, take off the day before too. That’s what I’d do.

I’ve heard about multiple FIRs having no-shows to FEAST. I’d take your invite as a win and attend.

[atcguy98]

I’m assuming the invite is for FEAST. In my opinion you should go, is one day off work worth it to have a shot at an amazing career? If you’re that concerned about not being in the right mindset, take off the day before too. That’s what I’d do.

I’ve heard about multiple FIRs having no-shows to FEAST. I’d take your invite as a win and attend.

Unfortunately, I just started interning in a job I'm really enjoying and I'm worried about approaching my boss for a day or two off during a hectic time without any really good reason... I don't think I should say I'm skipping to go pursue something else lol, and I feel it's unfair to them to give a days notice (I'd have to go for the Monday test and let them know tomorrow). I agree though, I think I should go as it would be a waste of an amazing opportunity not to. Thanks for the advice

Edit to update: the only day I would've been able to go is now gone. I guess that's what happens when you wait too long. Here's to hoping for another invitation in the future.

Another update! Checked again and another session came up next week on a day that actually works better than Monday - I guess someone must have withdrawn, but I've booked it

[atcguy98]

1. That's probably a good assumption. When I did my test I was told they were doing a lot of hiring this year, plus they may be having an issue with no-shows, so they've expanded eligibility.
I have no idea if you'll get invited later but, if I were you, I would see it as an opportunity and take it.
2. At the FIR I applied to, they have two intakes per year. I would assume this means they only test twice per year. When I signed up I didn't see any weekend testing.

Thanks, seeing that answer to 1) really sucks considering that I can't really take the opportunity, but I appreciate you confirming my suspicion. I may try to get out of work on one of the 2 days which were available but it's not looking like that will be possible.

This is for YYZ right? May I ask when you interviewed / how long after the interview they offered you the spot?

This isn't regarding an interview, it's about the in-person test (FEAST) after the online test.

[sk1996]

I’m assuming the invite is for FEAST. In my opinion you should go, is one day off work worth it to have a shot at an amazing career? If you’re that concerned about not being in the right mindset, take off the day before too. That’s what I’d do.

I’ve heard about multiple FIRs having no-shows to FEAST. I’d take your invite as a win and attend.

I don’t think there’s an interview before FEAST

Just the online stuff

[sk1996]

Thanks, seeing that answer to 1) really sucks considering that I can't really take the opportunity, but I appreciate you confirming my suspicion. I may try to get out of work on one of the 2 days which were available but it's not looking like that will be possible.

This is for YYZ right? May I ask when you interviewed / how long after the interview they offered you the spot?

Oh looks like I misunderstood sorry

This isn't regarding an interview, it's about the in-person test (FEAST) after the online test.

[vultajolma]

Just so you know you won't lose your mortgage as long as you keep up your payments. Now the feasibility of that with a pay cut is a different issue.

I'm juggling the decision right now, I genuinley think this is a job that I would enjoy compared to what I am doing now/will be doing in the future. I'm willing to take a pay cut for that. I also don't really care about the money. It's more so just feeling as though I am actually doing something worthwhile.

Personally I am likely to decline, especially given the fact I would lose my mortgage due to the massive paycut and being on probation the whole time.

Once you have a mortgage banks don't keep checking to see how much you make, calling in the mortgage if you have a change of circumstances. So long as you keep up the payments they don't care that you changed jobs or took a pay cut. Now come renewal you might have an issue....

Unfortunately I went with a private lender and my renewal is coming up this year, maybe I will able to bypass it if the timing is right, renewal is over the summer so I might be able to to trick them. But the bigger issue is my mortgage would be like 2/3 of my monthly income @ 48K/year which is not ideal.

I agree this is something I would want to try and worth living frugally for a while but alot of things have to go right for me, I definitely wont take any VFR/FSS offers, only IFR in the YYZ region which is pretty narrow.

Good luck on your interview by the way!

[sk1996]

Just so you know you won't lose your mortgage as long as you keep up your payments. Now the feasibility of that with a pay cut is a different issue.

I'm juggling the decision right now, I genuinley think this is a job that I would enjoy compared to what I am doing now/will be doing in the future. I'm willing to take a pay cut for that. I also don't really care about the money. It's more so just feeling as though I am actually doing something worthwhile.

Personally I am likely to decline, especially given the fact I would lose my mortgage due to the massive paycut and being on probation the whole time.

Once you have a mortgage banks don't keep checking to see how much you make, calling in the mortgage if you have a change of circumstances. So long as you keep up the payments they don't care that you changed jobs or took a pay cut. Now come renewal you might have an issue....

Unfortunately I went with a private lender and my renewal is coming up this year, maybe I will able to bypass it if the timing is right, renewal is over the summer so I might be able to to trick them. But the bigger issue is my mortgage would be like 2/3 of my monthly income @ 48K/year which is not ideal.

I agree this is something I would want to try and worth living frugally for a while but alot of things have to go right for me, I definitely wont take any VFR/FSS offers, only IFR in the YYZ region which is pretty narrow.

Good luck on your interview by the way!

Isn’t vfr and ifr similarly paid?

Thank you! I think I’ll be fine. May have over prepped a bit even haha

[kashep]

I wonder if there's a serious need to get people into training asap and not enough capacity to pull people from the beginning (ie time to have people come in and do FEAST) that might be why your FEAST score is now good for an interview when it wasn't before... just pure speculation

QM ACC did 2 weeks of FEAST testing recently. I was told that some days only 3 of the 10 that were scheduled actually showed up.

This was my experience during my FEAST test as well. Not only that, everyone other than me seemed to be over the age of 30 meaning they were probably applying for FSS anyway.

Just curious, how does over 30 have anything to do with FSS? There are people of all ages in all streams.

[kaye.boe]

Just so you know you won't lose your mortgage as long as you keep up your payments. Now the feasibility of that with a pay cut is a different issue.

I'm juggling the decision right now, I genuinley think this is a job that I would enjoy compared to what I am doing now/will be doing in the future. I'm willing to take a pay cut for that. I also don't really care about the money. It's more so just feeling as though I am actually doing something worthwhile.

Once you have a mortgage banks don't keep checking to see how much you make, calling in the mortgage if you have a change of circumstances. So long as you keep up the payments they don't care that you changed jobs or took a pay cut. Now come renewal you might have an issue....

Unfortunately I went with a private lender and my renewal is coming up this year, maybe I will able to bypass it if the timing is right, renewal is over the summer so I might be able to to trick them. But the bigger issue is my mortgage would be like 2/3 of my monthly income @ 48K/year which is not ideal.

I agree this is something I would want to try and worth living frugally for a while but alot of things have to go right for me, I definitely wont take any VFR/FSS offers, only IFR in the YYZ region which is pretty narrow.

Good luck on your interview by the way!

Isn’t vfr and ifr similarly paid?

Thank you! I think I’ll be fine. May have over prepped a bit even haha

IFR is paid more than VFR, especially if you end up working at a lower traffic tower. Might be able to make the difference in OT though?

I would argue that VFR training is shorter though, so they'd be making a full-time wage sooner than going IFR - but they'd run the risk of being positioned at a tower outside of the GTA. Pros and cons either way. Good luck on your interviews and assessments!

[naribari]

QM ACC did 2 weeks of FEAST testing recently. I was told that some days only 3 of the 10 that were scheduled actually showed up.

This was my experience during my FEAST test as well. Not only that, everyone other than me seemed to be over the age of 30 meaning they were probably applying for FSS anyway.

Just curious, how does over 30 have anything to do with FSS? There are people of all ages in all streams.

"Be age 30 or under (on the closing date of the application period)"
https://www.faa.gov/levelup

The American version of ATC is a lot more harsh in this regard, but the reality is true in NAVcan as well.

viewtopic.php?t=66366

This old thread shows the attitudes and policies.
To be honest, before going in this forum, it was my belief that the 30 years old cut off was explicit for ATC. I was sure I had read it, but now I can't find it. Whatever the case, the attitude is there, the imperative is there, the counterpart does it explicitly, old people fail more often in training and are less intellectually agile in general. Personally, I'm under 30 and I'm still feeling bad about my age because I'm not 22 which I feel is probably the optimal age they're looking for.

Obviously NAVCAN isn't hiring 55 years olds to train them for ATC. Are they hiring 45 year olds? What about 35 year olds?
If the hiring selection looks like a bell curve, it's a bad sign for over 30s. I've done training for a few other jobs, in every single one of them the over 40s struggle to keep up. Obviously this isn't an environment where they got extensively tested like NAVCAN does, but the concerns are still there.

Edit: If someone is really motivated to know, they could always ATIP navcan.

[Kstander30]

I received notification on Tuesday that I passed the FEAST - anyone in YQM getting invited for interviews yet? Just curious if I’ll be in limbo for a while or not called at all (it is what it is just wondering thanks)

[evilgravy]

This was my experience during my FEAST test as well. Not only that, everyone other than me seemed to be over the age of 30 meaning they were probably applying for FSS anyway.

Just curious, how does over 30 have anything to do with FSS? There are people of all ages in all streams.

"Be age 30 or under (on the closing date of the application period)"
https://www.faa.gov/levelup

The American version of ATC is a lot more harsh in this regard, but the reality is true in NAVcan as well.

viewtopic.php?t=66366

This old thread shows the attitudes and policies.
To be honest, before going in this forum, it was my belief that the 30 years old cut off was explicit for ATC. I was sure I had read it, but now I can't find it. Whatever the case, the attitude is there, the imperative is there, the counterpart does it explicitly, old people fail more often in training and are less intellectually agile in general. Personally, I'm under 30 and I'm still feeling bad about my age because I'm not 22 which I feel is probably the optimal age they're looking for.

Obviously NAVCAN isn't hiring 55 years olds to train them for ATC. Are they hiring 45 year olds? What about 35 year olds?
If the hiring selection looks like a bell curve, it's a bad sign for over 30s. I've done training for a few other jobs, in every single one of them the over 40s struggle to keep up. Obviously this isn't an environment where they got extensively tested like NAVCAN does, but the concerns are still there.

Edit: If someone is really motivated to know, they could always ATIP navcan.

I received 2 FSS offers last year (I declined both). I was 45. I noted my preference was IFR throughout the process.

[vultajolma]

Isn’t vfr and ifr similarly paid?

Thank you! I think I’ll be fine. May have over prepped a bit even haha

IFR does pay more, but for me its about the location, two years ago I was ready to move anywhere but not anymore. For VFR/FSS you are essentially guaranteed to be outside GTA region at a lower tower which is better for passing but I dont want to wait 3-5 years or more in order to transfer out, while you are almost guaranteed to be at the same FIR you train at for IFR route.

[stabilizedapproach]

Are they hiring 45 year olds? What about 35 year olds?

Yes and yes. And I’ve seen them all succeed too.

[naribari]

Just curious, how does over 30 have anything to do with FSS? There are people of all ages in all streams.

"Be age 30 or under (on the closing date of the application period)"
https://www.faa.gov/levelup

The American version of ATC is a lot more harsh in this regard, but the reality is true in NAVcan as well.

viewtopic.php?t=66366

This old thread shows the attitudes and policies.
To be honest, before going in this forum, it was my belief that the 30 years old cut off was explicit for ATC. I was sure I had read it, but now I can't find it. Whatever the case, the attitude is there, the imperative is there, the counterpart does it explicitly, old people fail more often in training and are less intellectually agile in general. Personally, I'm under 30 and I'm still feeling bad about my age because I'm not 22 which I feel is probably the optimal age they're looking for.

Obviously NAVCAN isn't hiring 55 years olds to train them for ATC. Are they hiring 45 year olds? What about 35 year olds?
If the hiring selection looks like a bell curve, it's a bad sign for over 30s. I've done training for a few other jobs, in every single one of them the over 40s struggle to keep up. Obviously this isn't an environment where they got extensively tested like NAVCAN does, but the concerns are still there.

Edit: If someone is really motivated to know, they could always ATIP navcan.

I received 2 FSS offers last year (I declined both). I was 45. I noted my preference was IFR throughout the process.

Are you going to try for ATC again? What's your outlook?

[kashep]

This was my experience during my FEAST test as well. Not only that, everyone other than me seemed to be over the age of 30 meaning they were probably applying for FSS anyway.

Just curious, how does over 30 have anything to do with FSS? There are people of all ages in all streams.

"Be age 30 or under (on the closing date of the application period)"
https://www.faa.gov/levelup

The American version of ATC is a lot more harsh in this regard, but the reality is true in NAVcan as well.

viewtopic.php?t=66366

This old thread shows the attitudes and policies.
To be honest, before going in this forum, it was my belief that the 30 years old cut off was explicit for ATC. I was sure I had read it, but now I can't find it. Whatever the case, the attitude is there, the imperative is there, the counterpart does it explicitly, old people fail more often in training and are less intellectually agile in general. Personally, I'm under 30 and I'm still feeling bad about my age because I'm not 22 which I feel is probably the optimal age they're looking for.

Obviously NAVCAN isn't hiring 55 years olds to train them for ATC. Are they hiring 45 year olds? What about 35 year olds?
If the hiring selection looks like a bell curve, it's a bad sign for over 30s. I've done training for a few other jobs, in every single one of them the over 40s struggle to keep up. Obviously this isn't an environment where they got extensively tested like NAVCAN does, but the concerns are still there.

Edit: If someone is really motivated to know, they could always ATIP navcan.

My experience is there are people of all ages in all streams. Maybe younger is more common but there is certainly no 30 year cut off for ATC in Canada. If you can get through recruitment and training you're good to go. I started FSS training when I was 25 and I was the oldest in the course. First postings for FSS are often remote, I would say many 30+ are not willing to make that move and are actually less likely to be applying for FSS.

[evilgravy]

"Be age 30 or under (on the closing date of the application period)"
https://www.faa.gov/levelup

The American version of ATC is a lot more harsh in this regard, but the reality is true in NAVcan as well.

viewtopic.php?t=66366

This old thread shows the attitudes and policies.
To be honest, before going in this forum, it was my belief that the 30 years old cut off was explicit for ATC. I was sure I had read it, but now I can't find it. Whatever the case, the attitude is there, the imperative is there, the counterpart does it explicitly, old people fail more often in training and are less intellectually agile in general. Personally, I'm under 30 and I'm still feeling bad about my age because I'm not 22 which I feel is probably the optimal age they're looking for.

Obviously NAVCAN isn't hiring 55 years olds to train them for ATC. Are they hiring 45 year olds? What about 35 year olds?
If the hiring selection looks like a bell curve, it's a bad sign for over 30s. I've done training for a few other jobs, in every single one of them the over 40s struggle to keep up. Obviously this isn't an environment where they got extensively tested like NAVCAN does, but the concerns are still there.

Edit: If someone is really motivated to know, they could always ATIP navcan.

I received 2 FSS offers last year (I declined both). I was 45. I noted my preference was IFR throughout the process.

Are you going to try for ATC again? What's your outlook?

No - this was my third run at it. I'm good!

[kevenv]

"Be age 30 or under (on the closing date of the application period)"

https://www.faa.gov/levelup

The American version of ATC is a lot more harsh in this regard, but the reality is true in NAVcan as well.

viewtopic.php?t=66366

The NavCan thread is 12 years old. I don't think it was true back then on what age is acceptable and certainly not now.

I believe the American standard has more to do with the ability to earn a 25 year operational pension than it does your abilities above 30. They have mandatory retirement at 55. We don't.

I have seen young people fail and older people fail. If you are interested in the job apply. Don't pay attention to anyone who tells you you are too old or that NavCan doesn't like to hire above a certain age. Some people "get" the job and others don't. I don't think there is a magic test. If there was one ANS providers around the world would be all over it. As an aside my last new qualification was done at 56. Granted I am in the job..... still, you are never too old to learn something new.

[Kstander30]

I wonder if there's a serious need to get people into training asap and not enough capacity to pull people from the beginning (ie time to have people come in and do FEAST) that might be why your FEAST score is now good for an interview when it wasn't before... just pure speculation

QM ACC did 2 weeks of FEAST testing recently. I was told that some days only 3 of the 10 that were scheduled actually showed up.

Do you know if QM ACC is inviting people for interviews yet? I passed the FEAST and just wondering if I’m not making the cut this time around.