Chaxterium wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:50 am
Correct. We have no jumpseat agreements with anyone. All commuting is done on company aircraft.
So I’m assuming that you’ll by flying out on the go home leg you’ll be flying 24 hours later.. and probably holding for most of the day before you can get the outbound leg back home? Is it a milk run? Can you hitch a ride on 208s or ATRs to live in a small city rather than YVR, YYC, etc?
How would a commute from YUL to YYZ look? Does MS do a YUL-YYZ-YUL run? Thanks.
Well we only go to Mirabel. But we have an evening flight from Mirabel to Toronto (leaves around 9pm) and then an early morning flight from Toronto to Mirabel which leaves at 4:20am.
Freeport_Flyer wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:03 pm
That's too bad. I'm sure there are folks that would want the stable life of a freight dog rather than the on again, off again airline job.
I agree, if I got on with a company like Morningstar I would have no problem leaving the airline life behind for increased stability. It seems that not many employers in Canada (aviation or otherwise) are willing to take on a furloughed airline pilot.
The problem is that 99.9% of those telling you they would prefer the stable life of a freight dog, will go right back to their old seats as soon as they get recalled.
So the hiring department is faced with a situation of hiring people with a near 100% chance of leaving in the next two years. Or hire someone from the 703/04 world that may stick around for longer.
To answer the question about base movement between YYC and YMX, it just comes down to seniority and positions available. If a position becomes available in YMX, anyone can bid for it and will be awarded based on seniority. Mirabel has historically seen very little movement as the position is quite comfortable for those guy, even more so for the left seat.
The immediate reason is the take over of the turboprop routes out of YYC from Carson. That being said, reasonable speculation would assume that there is more coming down the pipeline at some point. Since its not just taking over the runs, but a considerable up-gage in equipment, Metro to ATR.
As far as routes are concerned, a quick flight aware check will tell you everything you want about that.
woop_woop wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:53 am
The problem is that 99.9% of those telling you they would prefer the stable life of a freight dog, will go right back to their old seats as soon as they get recalled.
Why is that? If working and wage conditions are similar, why would someone leave if it's stable? Especially after freight has prospered in a drastically negative aviation market? For example, someone who was recently hired onto 705 during pilot shortage-palooza but only working a year, really isn't walking away from that much seniority; and the prospect of return to work for them may be 1-2 years away anyway! Not to mention not much hope of moving out of the right seat for the foreseeable future.
It may be worth having a second look at former 705 folks rather than just burning the pile of resumes. You may find more skilled candidates rather than "just taking" whoever applies from 703/04.
And while this may sound self serving, I am one of the lucky happily employed.
The simple answer to that is that most would rather be at the airlines and not flying cargo. The reasons for that are as varied as the pilot itself, but the reality is that most do not want to fly night cargo for the rest of their career. Are there some that would prefer the stability? Absolutely! But that wasn't my point.
Again, why would they make their selection process more difficult on themselves trying to guess who may stay behind, when they can make things real simple on themselves and go for someone who has a higher chance of staying.
I don't fully agree with that comment about 705 guys being necessarily more skilled. We have actually had a much harder time training guys coming from 705 operations than guys upgrading from the Caravan or coming from some King Air outfit.
As far as wage and working conditions go, we are currently negotiating the next contract. Wage will probably be the same or right around what CJ is getting.
woop_woop wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:47 pm
I don't fully agree with that comment about 705 guys being necessarily more skilled. We have actually had a much harder time training guys coming from 705 operations than guys upgrading from the Caravan or coming from some King Air outfit.
I'm not saying 705 pilots are better than the rest. I'm just saying that by discriminating against someone because of who their last employer was may be eliminating a qualified candidate before being given the chance. And with the way the world has changed, you may find a lot of people's views on what they want out of employment have changed too.
Lets be honest, it's not "past employer" for all intents and purposes its current, given how our profession works. I get your point and agree to some degree, I'm sure plenty of very qualified people are being looked over. But isn't that always the case, pandemic or otherwise? What makes a laid off airline pilot more entitled to a job simply because they may have more "experience".
Ultimately a company is always in search of someone that will be the best fit for the role. More experience does not necessarily mean better fit than others. It's a peculiar industry isn't it? In many ways the more experienced and qualified we get, the less desirable we become to other employers.
I'm sure those who's views have actually been changed during this downturn, will continue to apply to the Cargo world even after they get a call back. At that point they will be much more attractive. After all, they still wouldn't wan't the off again on again life of an airline pilot, right?
As for the others? Well, thats exactly who we're trying to avoid.
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woop_woop wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:46 am
I'm sure those who's views have actually been changed during this downturn, will continue to apply to the Cargo world even after they get a call back. At that point they will be much more attractive. After all, they still wouldn't wan't the off again on again life of an airline pilot, right?
As for the others? Well, thats exactly who we're trying to avoid.
I see what you're saying... Those that really want to make the change will apply again even after being recalled to their airline. Showing a strong desire to leave the airline for cargo, rather than just taking "any flying job until I get recalled to the airline". It's just bad luck for anyone right now that really feels that way as operators believe any furloughed airline pilot will leave them as soon as able, even if it's not the case. You're right, it's a funny industry we work in. Having said that, I am sure there are things operators could do to help this retention problem.
woop_woop wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:46 am
I'm sure those who's views have actually been changed during this downturn, will continue to apply to the Cargo world even after they get a call back. At that point they will be much more attractive. After all, they still wouldn't wan't the off again on again life of an airline pilot, right?
As for the others? Well, thats exactly who we're trying to avoid.
I see what you're saying... Those that really want to make the change will apply again even after being recalled to their airline. Showing a strong desire to leave the airline for cargo, rather than just taking "any flying job until I get recalled to the airline". It's just bad luck for anyone right now that really feels that way as operators believe any furloughed airline pilot will leave them as soon as able, even if it's not the case. You're right, it's a funny industry we work in. Having said that, I am sure there are things operators could do to help this retention problem.
I think a solution to this would be to force the furloughed airline pilot to quit their airline if hired by a cargo operator. Alternatively, maybe a 2-3 year pro-rated bond for the type rating costs would ensure the company does not incur a financial loss by hiring an airline pilot.
Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:55 am
Alternatively, maybe a 2-3 year pro-rated bond for the type rating costs would ensure the company does not incur a financial loss by hiring an airline pilot.
Morningstar has a two-year bond on the Boeing. I'm not sure about the other types but I'm assuming there's on bond on those as well.
Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:55 am
Alternatively, maybe a 2-3 year pro-rated bond for the type rating costs would ensure the company does not incur a financial loss by hiring an airline pilot.
Morningstar has a two-year bond on the Boeing. I'm not sure about the other types but I'm assuming there's on bond on those as well.
If there's a bond, then what's the problem. In 2-3 years some of those 703/704 guys will split for AC/WJ/SW etc (pending recovery). Was just a year ago, Morningstar would've taken anyone from those airlines no questions asked, and they'll be in that position again down the road.
