Hi all,

I combed the CARs, Google, and these forums and could find no answer.

I have access to a STOL type plane and would like to have some fun landing off-airport. I heard a freelance instructor say you could legally land on private land (with permission), crown land or any highway in Canada. Are any of these options true? And where are the regs to back it up? Obviously I would only do this if the landing location was safe and it would not create a hazard to anyone, but I'd like to cover my bases so TC or the RCMP won't come after me.

The regs do say "except for the purpose of take off or landing, you may not come within [min obst clearance/built up areas]" etc, but it doesn't specify what landing surface is suitable/legal in a non-emergency other than an aerodrome.

Thanks!

Think about it, float planes land in any lake except one's specifically banned such as in parks. You can land anywhere but roads will get someone's attention but I know of people who use back roads and pull off in a driveway but we are talking remote.

Farmers might also get upset if you land in crop areas or in pastures with live stock but mt fields never seemed to bother them. You want to drop in on people with private strips I suggest contact flying farmers, they did publish a list of farm strips at one point.

The main concern is insurance and having coverage, if not hull at least liability.

Landing on a highway is governed by provincial regulation. For instance in Ontario, the Highway Traffic Act, Section 187:

Aircraft and movement along highway subject to Act
(2) Subject to subsection (3), no aircraft shall be driven or drawn along a highway unless the aircraft and the movement thereof comply with the provisions of this Act respecting vehicles and the movement thereof on a highway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 187 (2).

So, basically, no.

Subsection (3) deals with taking off, after an emergency landing. It's worth a read.

Thanks for the feedback, I’ll check the highway regs. Luckily I have hull insurance.

aerodynamic89 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:14 pm Thanks for the feedback, I’ll check the highway regs. Luckily I have hull insurance.

Read your hull insurance carefully. Mine has an exclusion for off airport landings except in cases of emergency.

Photofly is correct in Ontario. Many provinces (SK) have no such laws.

Off strip flying is fun, but make no mistake, you will bend something eventually. Personally, I would only land somewhere on wheels if I walked it first.

Generally, a landing surface is not described in regulation as legal or otherwise. Highways are an exception, and should not be assumed to be acceptable landing surfaces. The RCMP may com after you . Private land, with permission, yes (that's why it's private!). Crown land, probably, though not parks, or otherwise restricted areas (military, for example). Some lakes are identified as non landing bodies of water, others are PPR. I have found that PPR requests for lakes have generally been okay'd. Built up areas, and incorporated towns/cities, are certainly off limits for airplanes, unless it's an a licensed airport.

Then, check your insurance - particularly if it's someone else's plane!

Then, are you ready to handle the variables of making your own aerodrome - on the fly? Sure, it can be safely done, but there's more to think about! 'Kinda why float flying is insured differently, more risk, more pilot skill and judgement required. My best advice is to "explore" in the company of a more experienced off airport pilot. If that pilot declines, you should too... If that pilot agrees that landing there is a good idea, someone knows where you are, and can get help if something goes wrong. Those places you're thinking of landing are often not near roads (unless they are one!), which makes minor problems more major - just like float flying. I've flown a lot of repair parts into remote locales. In the most extreme case [of a recoverable airplane] I have heard of, a friend was one of a group who had to fly a whole IO-520 engine out then back in again, for an engine change of a 185 on a remote shore.

Yes, I have gotten stuck, landing off airport, and had to call buddies for help - have a plan!

The practical interpretation boils down to this:

You can land and take off from any surface in Canada, provided you don't p*ss anyone off.

So... If there's nobody around to see you, if you talk to the farmer who owns the field you want to land in, if you don't break any other CARs while doing it, if you don't hurt anyone, if you don't damage anyone's property, etc. etc. then you're probably good.

By the same argument, you can break any rule you like, in any context. As long as nothing goes wrong, nobody sees you, etc.

Nonsense. As PilotDAR pointed out, landing areas are not described in the regulations as being legal or not. There is literally no specific rule to break in landing off-airport. There are only rules that cover the effect of you landing and taking off, ie. not causing damage to persons or property, etc. Those are easiest to meet when you're at an airport and airplanes are expected. They are harder to meet when you're in the middle of nowhere.

If you have permission from the farmer, don't damage his props/kill any livestock/scare any family members, you're fine.
If you land on a back road with nobody else around, and manage not to hit a fence/pole/ditch and roll the plane up into a ball, you're fine.
If you randomly chose a field that looks empty for miles around, and while you're parked there having lunch a farmer comes up and isn't happy about it because you didn't talk to him first, you're probably going to be in trouble.

The laws in Canada generally say what you *can't* do. If it doesn't say you can't do it, then generally you can.

It depends. You can’t, for instance, land on roads in Ontario. Even if it’s a quiet road and nobody sees you. Even if you don’t piss anyone off.

The laws in Canada generally say what you *can't* do. If it doesn't say you can't do it, then generally you can

That’s right. And in some situations, it says you can’t land.

If the road you're about to depart/arrive on is in a province that forbids it, that's a problem.
If the road is a narrow, two lane setup with a yellow center line it could be an expensive problem.
All the years of tracking a runway center line will definitely lead to your tracking the roads yellow line. Airports don't have road signs beside the runway, and chances are your A/C has a wingspan greater than 20 feet.
That's all I gotta say about that.

Here are more examples of places you can’t land an airplane: national parks, and provincial parks:

From the National Parks of Canada Aircraft Access regulations:

2 (1) Subject to section 5, it is prohibited for a person to conduct a take-off or landing of an aircraft in a park, other than in a park set out in column I of the schedule at a take-off and landing location set out in column II.

Ontario Provincial Parks Regulations

Aircraft
33. (1) No person shall land an aircraft in a provincial park. O. Reg. 347/07, s. 33 (1).

Someone else can check the other province’s rules.

A related question. How about at an airport - are you allowed to land other than on the runway? Can a pilot determine the safest or most appropriate area to land on? Of course I'm thinking tail wheel a/c on grass into wind. but there are impossible conditions with plowed runways and you're on skis.

How about at an airport - are you allowed to land other than on the runway?

If it's a controlled, or otherwise "operated" airport, ask first. Some airports do have areas designated for "grass" or "ski" use. I've done it at a few airports. That said, it's usually just beside a main runway. You'll be told to use the grass to the left/right of runway X between taxiways Y and Z. Rarely have I seen an infield maintained for airplane use. Muskoka is an example of grass on both sides of the paved runway, which has usable areas, and runway 09/27 to the south is more a grass rectangle than a runway - lots of room. Don't land or takeoff from taxiways without permission, that does get airport operators wound up. The other thing to consider, is that if you arrive or depart off a runway axis, you may be overflying a noise sensitive area, another reason to get permission.

If it's a completely uncontrolled airport, I'd walk the intended area first, particularly if it's not mowed. There can be annoying hazards hidden in the grass.

In respect of controlled aerodromes, you can, except for on taxiways (unless in an emergency):
Old, but still relevant.

photofly wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:45 am
Ontario Provincial Parks Regulations

Aircraft
33. (1) No person shall land an aircraft in a provincial park. O. Reg. 347/07, s. 33 (1).

I don't believe it is that simple. That is simply the overall regulation.

I have been granted permission to land in a provincial park every time I asked. The expressed position of the park people seemed to be: "We want you to use the park, we just want to know you're doing it."

photofly wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:09 am In respect of controlled aerodromes, you can, except for on taxiways (unless in an emergency):

Controllers in BC need to be shown this. The towers at YPK and YXX have *denied* landing on the grass when requested.

photofly wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:02 pmIt depends. You can’t, for instance, land on roads in Ontario. Even if it’s a quiet road and nobody sees you. Even if you don’t piss anyone off.

If there's a local rule in Ontario, then violating it would piss off the local constabulary. My bad for assuming provinces were aligned on these things.

pelmet wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:02 am

photofly wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:45 am
Ontario Provincial Parks Regulations

Aircraft
33. (1) No person shall land an aircraft in a provincial park. O. Reg. 347/07, s. 33 (1).

I don't believe it is that simple. That is simply the overall regulation.

Well, it goes on, with a list of exceptions. You can read it yourself.

How about landing on the ramp/apron? Helicopters do it all the time. At uncontrolled airports in particular I haven’t been able to find any reg that you could get whacked for over it, although I haven’t dug deep enough to get the balls to do it yet.

There seems to some exceptions, we would land in Polar Bear park and never had issues or asked permission. It seems to me that this has just gone the way so many things do and it becomes a preoccupation on legalities and rules and not finding a safe and logical way of doing it.

For me if I have the proper equipment and see a place I want to land I will apply common sense(like I'm not landing on a paved or obviously well used road. I would certainly land in a field beside that road if I had a reason to do so, like stop for lunch at a roadside restaurant).

Obviously you wouldn't do so in built up or residential areas but we supposedly are talking about remote. It now boils down to what you as the pilot are comfortable with and certainly what you experience and skill levels are.

Look what happened to a well known youtuber, he is all over with his fancy stol aircraft only to write it off on a runway in a xwind. In ways landing off strip or on runways that are not long and don't have white lines has your sense of awareness at it's peak and relaxing for that familiar runway at home you might be more prone to mistakes.

Like most things common sense can keep you out of trouble and you don't need all those confusing and misleading rules and regulations to make decisions. Safe trumps rules any day.

PilotDAR wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:58 am You'll be told to use the grass to the left/right of runway X between taxiways Y and Z.

I can't speak to all airports, but at the couple I've done this at, the controllers will not "tell you" to do anything involved in operating beyond the designated takeoff and landing areas. I suspect it has a lot to do with liability. I've only ever received a lot of "your discretion" regardless of if I wanted to do something in the area conventionally used for those operations, or somewhere else on the field. Some may have different operations, I don't know. Would be a good question to ask a tower controller.

BeaverDreamer wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:30 am How about landing on the ramp/apron? Helicopters do it all the time.

Different rules for helicopters at controlled airports:

photofly wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:09 am In respect of controlled aerodromes, you can, except for on taxiways (unless in an emergency):

4FDF4D8B-BECB-47A9-97FB-FEB78729B0F5.jpeg

Old, but still relevant.

What document is this?