Buying vs Renting

[wibblewobble]

I'm going through training and thinking my mission is probably 95% flying solo or occasionally with a +1 to grab lunch. I'd imagine probably something like ~50 hrs a year. Since something like a c150 would fit the mission, would it make sense to buy vs just renting? If buying makes sense, it'd probably make more sense to buy now rather than later since I'll have a lot more hours in the first year during training. I've seen some figures for the US but nothing really for Canada.

What's would you do in my shoes?

[Pilotdaddy]

Buying will always have a lower per hour cost, provided the engine does not blow up on you. In the end, it's really up to your risk tolerance. Would you rather have a higher hourly operating cost for the benefit of being able to walk away? Or are you feeling lucky that there will be no major problems and pocket the difference going forward?

I've done some rough math and the magic number seems to be 100 hours/year. This is dependent on how thorough you are on optional maintenance/SBs, upgrades, hangared vs tie down, location, etc... If you're flying 100+ hours, then the buy side starts to make sense. If you're flying fewer, then maybe rent and not take on the ticking time bomb that is the engine. Of course, you can also join a plane share so you can share the cost/benefit of owning a plane.

[Big Pistons Forever]

At 50 hours a year owning an airplane will almost always be more expensive per hour. For a C 150 flying 50 hrs a year

Annual Inspection Minimum $ 2000
Insurance $ 1400
Tie down $1000
Fuel and oil ($ 45/hr) $2250
misc (Nav Canada fee's etc) $ 100

total $ 6750

Cost per hour $ 135

Note this does not include any maintenance. It is 135 dollars per hour if nothing breaks in a whole year and does not include an engine overhaul reserve. I have own a Grumman AA1B which is basically a low wing C 150 for 20 years. Over those 20 years the annual budget to fix things has averaged out to about $ 2000 a year. ( High $ 8500 Low about $ 200)

So if you add $2000 to the total cost your cost per hour is now $ 175 and you still face the prospect of having to do unexpected major work. An overhaul for the C 150 engine is about 25,000 dollars......

Personally I would be very leery of taking advice from someone who has never owned an airplane as in my experience they don't have a clue.

That being said there are many advantages to owning over renting. Being able to just jump in and go, no having to get the airplane back in time for the next renter, no daily minimums, knowing the airplane well etc etc, just don't expect it to cost less.

[lhalliday]

Buying is financially nonsensical for the vast majority of pilots. If I was to do it again I'd look at a share of a plane.

There is, however, nothing like being able to go to the airport and fly any time you like.

...laura

[Pilotdaddy]

Buying is financially nonsensical for the vast majority of pilots. If I was to do it again I'd look at a share of a plane.

There is, however, nothing like being able to go to the airport and fly any time you like.

...laura

That's exactly what I did. Although my partners don't fly as much as I do, I'm sure that given some rules around booking, owning (sharing) a plane definitely has its scheduling/flexibility advantages over renting, assuming cohesiveness amongst the group. With 5+ partners, the partnership itself is more of a factor than the actual plane, in my opinion.

[Pilotdaddy]

At 50 hours a year owning an airplane will almost always be more expensive per hour. For a C 150 flying 50 hrs a year

Annual Inspection Minimum $ 2000
Insurance $ 1400
Tie down $1000
Fuel and oil ($ 45/hr) $2250
misc (Nav Canada fee's etc) $ 100

total $ 6750

Cost per hour $ 135

Note this does not include any maintenance. It is 135 dollars per hour if nothing breaks in a whole year and does not include an engine overhaul reserve. I have own a Grumman AA1B which is basically a low wing C 150 for 20 years. Over those 20 years the annual budget to fix things has averaged out to about $ 2000 a year. ( High $ 8500 Low about $ 200)

So if you add $2000 to the total cost your cost per hour is now $ 175 and you still face the prospect of having to do unexpected major work. An overhaul for the C 150 engine is about 25,000 dollars......

Personally I would be very leery of taking advice from someone who has never owned an airplane as in my experience they don't have a clue.

That being said there are many advantages to owning over renting. Being able to just jump in and go, no having to get the airplane back in time for the next renter, no daily minimums, knowing the airplane well etc etc, just don't expect it to cost less.

I should've been a bit more clear on my previous post. What I meant was that owning will always have a lower variable cost per hour. The fixed costs is really the deciding factor, and its unpredictable nature (overhauls, not-in-budget repairs, etc.) can really turn the math on you at any time.

For me, having joined a partnership, I've cut my cost at least in half when compared to renting. Now, is it possible that the engine blows tomorrow and we're out $30k? Possibly... and that changes the math altogether.

There's a magic number out there where the buy/rent becomes a bit more clear. If you're flying 10 hours a year, it's pretty clear what the answer is. So is the answer if you're flying 500+ hours a year. It's the in-between use that is going to be a personal call whether it's mathematically worth the risk owning (or sharing) a plane or not.

[fish4life]

Do you plan on lots of busy airports or more grass strips and slow places ? If you don’t mind avoiding busy controlled airports an airplane like a champ or a cub is great for the job especially the ones with no electrical system. They sip fuel, have very very low maint costs because you don’t have avionics, radios, batteries, starters etc to maintain and the best part is they are fun.

[JasonE]

for less than 50 hrs / year, my suggestion would be to find a local flying club to become a member of. They will have less restrictions that a flight school. i.e. Overnight, going for a burger and letting it sit for a few hours, currency etc.

I've owned a Cherokee 140 and was flying it close to 100 hrs per year. Now I just use our local club airplanes as my flying is down to about 50 hrs / year.

[whipline]

I’ve never figured out why everyone always breaks down the cost of ownership of an airplane and never a car? If people broke down the price of their cars like they do aircraft Uber would be a lot more popular.

I’d go for a two person partnership. Split the fixed costs and pretty much fly it when you want. But it comes down to do you want your own airplane or not? If your worried about 20-30 hour price difference I’d probably rent.

As for engines. Don’t get me started on why a crappy 1930’s technology lycoming is over 30,000 to rebuild. They couldn’t be more simple.

[digits_]

Another factor to consider is that an engine rebuild -usually- would also increase the value of the plane.

You buy a plane at 1000 hours SMOH for 40k, engine blows, you pay 30k for a new engine, but your plane is probably worth over 50k now.

[digits_]

I’ve never figured out why everyone always breaks down the cost of ownership of an airplane and never a car? If people broke down the price of their cars like they do aircraft Uber would be a lot more popular.

I’d go for a two person partnership. Split the fixed costs and pretty much fly it when you want. But it comes down to do you want your own airplane or not? If your worried about 20-30 hour price difference I’d probably rent.

As for engines. Don’t get me started on why a crappy 1930’s technology lycoming is over 30,000 to rebuild. They couldn’t be more simple.

Yup, and add the cost of driving to the rental plane vs your own hangar as well. Your own hangar could be at a small airport nearby, the rental plane could be further away.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I agree the sweet spot for ownership is a 2 person partnership. I was in a 2 person partnership for 15 years. Over that time I could count the number of times we both wanted the airplane at the same time on the fingers of one hand, but all the fixed costs were cut in half. The challenge is to find a compatible partner.

[Bede]

Renting is far cheaper.

We purchased a well maintained, late model C150. Between the 3 partners, we flew 160 hrs Air time last year. Fixed costs (maintenance, insurance, parking) were $65/hr. Add in fuel/oil ($50/hr) and engine reserve ($15/hr).

[rookiepilot]

For higher speed planes the numbers per hour just go up. Not hard to break 200 / hr even flying a lot

[challenger_nami]

Buying vs Renting?
Ask that question from The infamous “Barefoot Bandit” and see what he would do, if he had to do it again.

Let’s see if he is a changed person.

[NotDirty!]

A wise man once told me that “if it floats, flies, or fu<ks, it is always cheaper to rent than to buy”.
I don’t think he was wrong.

[digits_]

For higher speed planes the numbers per hour just go up. Not hard to break 200 / hr even flying a lot

Sure, but at that point it would be better to compare price per mile flown. The majority of people buying fast airplanes have the intention to travel. The fast plane might still be more expensive, but not as much as you'd think looking at the hourly rate.

[pelmet]

It really depends on your situation which varies from person to person. My situation is definitely different than yours but interesting nonetheless.

I was considering buying a nice aircraft. When it came time to decide, I was flying with the airlines to various interesting locations with good layovers. At the same time, I was still occasionally flying small aircraft and had about 3000 hours in light airplanes. So why not buy an airplane. Of course one can get a cheap aircraft which can be enjoyable but what if you want something that is more capable.

The prices start to skyrocket. Check out the prices on used Cirrus aircraft. They are in the range of many hundreds of thousands of dollars(US dollars that is) just to buy one. Then there is the insurance, the hangar cost, the maintenance, the fuel, along with the effort put into organizing all this extraneous stuff.

So I decided to try something different and start renting on all my layovers. It is not cheap but it is a fantastic experience. I have done my best to avoid the typical Cessna's and Piper's as they are the majority everywhere and try to rent as many different new types as possible. Over the last 7 years or so, I have flown perhaps 20 types(some just once, others many times) in all kinds of interesting places. Now I can say that I am comfortable flying in the LA basin and 8 other US cities and in several locations in Europe as well. And I have flown things from Bonanza's and Cirrus's to a BT-13 and several LSA aircraft. I even went overboard once in LA and flew four different types in a layover(just to do it).

This compared to buying an aircraft and flying in the same areas that I have already been to many times near my home base. Of course, I don't have that Cirrus that I could have bought to sell now to recover some of my up front cost, but I suspect that prices are going down anyways. And I have loads of great memories and learning experiences from how various flight operations operate to aircraft types to flying in all these cities/airports with their various procedures, different weather issues for various locations, varying topography and airspace issues.

Overall, quite fascinating.

[Heliian]

Buy a plane! You can tell everyone you own a plane!

The only time buying a plane is economical is if you've got a free hangar and strip nearby and own a gas station and fly everywhere. I much prefer renting if I wanted to fly myself and a charter once and a while isn't that expensive if you need to actually fly somewhere.

But, a ton of people do start out buying a small trainer.

Either way, stop thinking about it and get flying!

[Bede]

So I decided to try something different and start renting on all my layovers.

Sounds cool. What did you have to do for check out's at these places? Not sure if it would be worth the hassle. Can you list places/types that you've rented?

[tsgarp]

A wise man once told me that “if it floats, flies, or fu<ks, it is always cheaper to rent than to buy”.

...and will also make you cry at some point....

[PilotDAR]

You've got to price out the options and how you benefit from either. Yes, renting, you can fly a greater number of types, with much less investment. But generally, extended use of the plane is less likely for you. If you own, you take it where you want to, when you want to, and there is no schedule for returning it. After renting my first hundred plus hours, and some appreciated ride alongs, I was offered a partnership in the mid '80's in either a 182, or a 310, both of which I had already flown quite a bit. I knew what it cost to operate them, as I had flown each a fair amount. I realized (a), I really could not afford that much by the hour to fly, and (b) neither could the owner, which was why he wanted to share out. If I can't afford it, I don't want to own it. So I bought a 150, because I could afford it. I still own it. I have taken it all over North America. I could not have ever rented for some of the trips I've taken. And, if you own [modest], you can still rent exotic every now and then.

There's no right answer, and even the cost can be hard to compare, it's more about how would you like to use the plane. If you're planning to fly only two one hour flights a month, just rent. If you want to fly a one a week, stop over for hours at a destination, and fly the occasional multi day trip, probably better to own...

[photofly]

If you're planning to fly only two one hour flights a month, just rent.

This raises an interesting point. I don’t believe a newly qualified pilot can reach or maintain a safe standard of pilot skill with only one or two hours a month.

To paraphrase someone helpful, If you have fewer than 1000 hours, you should plan to fly every day. That is, if you want to become a safe and competent pilot after obtaining your PPL you should expect to put in enough flight hours that the balance between renting and buying tips entirely to the buying side.

[PilotDAR]

I don’t believe a newly qualified pilot can reach or maintain a safe standard of pilot skill with only one or two hours a month.

Absolutely true, in my opinion! Though a parallel topic to the question asked. And the "newly qualified" element is the pivotal point. With many thousands of hours, I asked my insurance broker (who really does know his business) how little I would have to fly before they would be concerned about my skills from a currency perspective. His reply was an average of an hour a month. And, happily, my first flight, with an instructor after an unintended seven months away from flying, got a rating of "excellent", so my skills had not perished too much.

But, in my opinion, a new pilot needs at least an hour a month focused on practicing maneuvering and upper air emergencies, and another hour a month just doing circuits. So, if that's all you're doing in the plane you're renting, you're probably maintaining, and slightly building skills - but you're not taking passengers, nor going for cross countries. Those are more hours a month!

So, owning your plane means that you can jump in an go whenever you like, and for short periods if you like. Often, I'll fly a 0.4 up to Orillia and back (excellent restaurant there!). I didn't have to book three weeks in advance, hope for good weather, than actually put on 1.0 for an hour's booking. I fly several times a week, with multiple landings, so get my circuits in. I'll fly a half hour a month of upper air work, and I try to assure that some of my solo landings are actual power off from the downwind, for PFL practice.

So, I 100% agree with the following, and that's what I did 33 years ago...

That is, if you want to become a safe and competent pilot after obtaining your PPL you should expect to put in enough flight hours that the balance between renting and buying tips entirely to the buying side.

[Kejidog]

I bought a 172 in 2016 for $23000 canadian with 20 hours dual. Flew it for over 400 hours in four years cost me a grand total of $6000 in annual costs and a few upgrades. Sold it this July for well over $35000.

I flew whenever I wanted for as long as i liked and did four provinces in it. But i was fully employed and in my late forties when i did this. Now i own a 182 and flew it home from BC across the country during the so called deadly panicdemic. Don’t listen to anyone who tells you bullshit excuses as to why you can’t do something. Enjoy the ride.

Oh yeah your results may vary. But either way when those losers who rent are doing circuits to keep the costs down you’ll be goinig to lunch in another province with far more interesting people.