pacman007 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:04 pm
Don’t cause too much of a stink....can the PTA be cancelled?
Not can, but when?
At least we got to test the language before too much time with it had passed. I think we all know its worth now and who benefits.
I’m sorry that the PTA does not benefit you the way you want. For everyone else, we have enjoyed the couple of months of PTA and then the mainline guys enjoyed the bump down protection offered by it.
George Taylor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:44 am
There are mandated recalls at Encore stipulated in their MOA. Currently 50 pilots are being recalled.
To be clear, it’s 50 positions to be recalled or added. With 415 receiving layoff emails yesterday, and many bumping down to Encore, it’s unlikely there will be actual recalls.
George Taylor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:44 am
There are mandated recalls at Encore stipulated in their MOA. Currently 50 pilots are being recalled.
To be clear, it’s 50 positions to be recalled or added. With 415 receiving layoff emails yesterday, and many bumping down to Encore, it’s unlikely there will be actual recalls.
How many active and inactive pilots are left at WS?
They have just updated the recall, it’s now 224 pilots, this does not include the WJ pilots bumping into Encore. I have no idea how this is going to workout.
George Taylor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:41 pm
They have just updated the recall, it’s now 224 pilots, this does not include the WJ pilots bumping into Encore. I have no idea how this is going to workout.
Umm, I'm not entirely sure that is correct. This recall happened after the reduction bid was finalized. As I said, I'm not sure how this will pan out in the end, but by Westjet (Encore) conducting a recall right after the reduction bid, left many mainline pilots unemployed. Very dirty tactics, but I know its just business.
There are approx. 190 mainline pilots bumping into Encore. There are approx 340 Encore pilots on layoff. There is a current recall of 224 pilots to Encore, announced after the reduction bid.
Let the games begin.
When I first read about the 224 recalls last night I have to say; I got really excited. But as I thought more and more about it, the cynical or in this case realistic side of my brain started ticking. Why would they change the recall number at this time? Why 224 ( the exact number of pilots bumping into encore). And my only conclusion is that this means the company is not planning to reconcile a new MOA on the wj side and are infact planning to layoff the 415 wj pilots. And are using these 224 recalls for 2 purposes.
1. To "recall" all the pilots currently at encore that would have been laid off. Doing this to ensure continuity and training standards for the inevitable bump downs.
2. And two, which is I think the most underhanded. By "recalling" all the current encore pilots that face layoff they actually meet the reqs of our MOA3 and now will not have to recall any encore pilots that are actually currently on leave.
So they effectively just layed off a bunch of encore pilots and now plan to just rehire them immediately in order to not have to make any real recalls.
Anyways, I've been on layoff for too long and have to much time to think about these things. On the flip side, perhaps WJ will mitigate the layoff with a new MOA and perhaps all encore pilots are about to return to work april 1st.. I sure hope so!
Long story short, likely scenario is that WJAMEC gets an MOA with lay-off mitigation and WEN recalls 50 furloughed pilots.
Other scenario is that WJAMEC fails to secure lay-off mitigation and 224 pilots bump down into WEN. The company will increase the pilots on site by 224 and no (or very few) Encorians will be bumped out.
Either way, this is good news as we now know that the company has no intention on laying any pilots off.
I think any amount of good news is a welcome sight. But a little perspective is needed, I think its welcome news for our active encore pilots on the line to know they will not be going anywhere in either outcome (and thank god for that, we need you guys where you are). But it's not good news for the laid off encoreians hoping for recall, and it's not good news for the westjet folks that will likly be loosing their current positions.
Also, another thought. If the bumpdowns do in fact happen into encore will that not mean that the encore pliot base will be insanely over staffed? 224 new westjet pilots plus the I dunno 300-400 pilots there currently?
Obviously it goes without saying if this happens, more layoffs will inevitably come to encore as soon as MOA protection is gone.
I think this next month will be very telling to the recall expectations for 2021
notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:56 pm
Either way, this is good news as we now know that the company has no intention on laying any pilots off.
Anyone with their head on straight realized this 6+ months ago (at both WJ and AC).
George Taylor wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:17 am
Umm, I'm not entirely sure that is correct. This recall happened after the reduction bid was finalized. As I said, I'm not sure how this will pan out in the end, but by Westjet (Encore) conducting a recall right after the reduction bid, left many mainline pilots unemployed. Very dirty tactics, but I know its just business.
There are approx. 190 mainline pilots bumping into Encore. There are approx 340 Encore pilots on layoff. There is a current recall of 224 pilots to Encore, announced after the reduction bid.
Let the games begin.
I'm really trying to understand how any of this makes financial sense? The bump down and inevitable reinstatement rights to ML positions has to cost a fortune in training costs.
George Taylor wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:17 am
Umm, I'm not entirely sure that is correct. This recall happened after the reduction bid was finalized. As I said, I'm not sure how this will pan out in the end, but by Westjet (Encore) conducting a recall right after the reduction bid, left many mainline pilots unemployed. Very dirty tactics, but I know its just business.
There are approx. 190 mainline pilots bumping into Encore. There are approx 340 Encore pilots on layoff. There is a current recall of 224 pilots to Encore, announced after the reduction bid.
Let the games begin.
I'm really trying to understand how any of this makes financial sense? The bump down and inevitable reinstatement rights to ML positions has to cost a fortune in training costs.
They likely won't train the 737 drivers on the Q. Since these pilots are entitled to bump down, it's cheaper to lay them off and let them bump down into Encore to be paid as an Encore pilot (even without flying) than it is to pay them 737 pay without flying.
George Taylor wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:17 am
Umm, I'm not entirely sure that is correct. This recall happened after the reduction bid was finalized. As I said, I'm not sure how this will pan out in the end, but by Westjet (Encore) conducting a recall right after the reduction bid, left many mainline pilots unemployed. Very dirty tactics, but I know its just business.
There are approx. 190 mainline pilots bumping into Encore. There are approx 340 Encore pilots on layoff. There is a current recall of 224 pilots to Encore, announced after the reduction bid.
Let the games begin.
I'm really trying to understand how any of this makes financial sense? The bump down and inevitable reinstatement rights to ML positions has to cost a fortune in training costs.
Will it though?? You have a ton of pilots sitting around doing nothing at min pay, the only cost is going to be power to the sim....
I think the math of of 190 bump downs with 224 recalls is most correct. This equates to approximately 34 actual recalls.
However, there is a good chance that mainline makes a mitigation deal, and there will be substantially different numbers published.
This information could still be a few weeks away.
The bid results are released tmrw, but its not effective till April 1.
Similar to AC, a deal of this nature could go down to the wire.
I think there is also stock in the fact that government is pushing for airline recovery soon.