Scope

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Polar Bear
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Scope

Post by Polar Bear »

Do SW pilots have any scope protections? I'm hearing that WJ and ACr will be providing lift this winter for the SW Group...
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whipline
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Re: Scope

Post by whipline »

You forgot Swoop and flair.

And no scope...
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GoHomeLeg
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Re: Scope

Post by GoHomeLeg »

No scope.

SW doesn't fly half empty aircraft around at a lose. Unless it's the beginning of the end season. They will consolidate two flights into one if they need to with a double stop.


It's not financially smart to right know to use too many of its own aircraft. Some of our pilots hate that, but it's all about the long game.
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DHC-1 Jockey
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Re: Scope

Post by DHC-1 Jockey »

We do have this portion of the CBA which is "scope-lite":

6.9 Wet Leasing - Outside Operators

6.9.1 A Wet Lease is the Company contracting another carrier to supply aircraft and crew which is not on the Company’s Air Operator’s Certificate (AOC).

6.9.2 No FCM will be displaced from a Permanent Base Position due to the Company Wet Leasing an aircraft into a Permanent Base.

So, I guess the spirit of this in normal times is that no SWG pilot shall be bumped out of their own base to another base due to a wet lease aircraft coming into their home base. In the current climate however, since none of us are working, we can't be displaced/bumped and therefore the company can use whoever they want to fly SWG passengers.
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rudder
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Re: Scope

Post by rudder »

DHC-1 Jockey wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:12 pm We do have this portion of the CBA which is "scope-lite":

6.9 Wet Leasing - Outside Operators

6.9.1 A Wet Lease is the Company contracting another carrier to supply aircraft and crew which is not on the Company’s Air Operator’s Certificate (AOC).

6.9.2 No FCM will be displaced from a Permanent Base Position due to the Company Wet Leasing an aircraft into a Permanent Base.

So, I guess the spirit of this in normal times is that no SWG pilot shall be bumped out of their own base to another base due to a wet lease aircraft coming into their home base. In the current climate however, since none of us are working, we can't be displaced/bumped and therefore the company can use whoever they want to fly SWG passengers.
SWG buying seats on another scheduled carrier is not a wet lease so it wouldn’t make a difference whether it was normal times or COVID times.

It is a reminder that SWG is a tour operator that happens to own an airline. In normal times SWG uses the airline to move its tour customers. This is more cost effective and gives SWG the ability to control the quality of the flight portion of the tour package. However, it is cost effective only if the aircraft is full (or very close to full).

As travel demand returns, SWG will most certainly examine the cost effectiveness of own-lift on a route-by-route if not flight-by-flight basis.

Like everybody else, SWG is trying to determine the best way to sustain the operation both financially and commercially through an unprecedented crisis. Unfortunately, that has left the employees directly attached to the airline operation highly exposed in the effort to save $$.

Return to normal for freedom to travel seems to be moving further away rather than improving. Summer 2021 for airlines and fall 2021 for sun charters may be the most optimistic starting point for the recovery.
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DHC-1 Jockey
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Re: Scope

Post by DHC-1 Jockey »

rudder wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:07 am SWG buying seats on another scheduled carrier is not a wet lease so it wouldn’t make a difference whether it was normal times or COVID times.
I agree, but in the past, SWG has contracted out these other carriers to perform flights ON BEHALF of SWG instead of using SWG aircraft and not simply putting SWG passengers on those other airlines which were going south anyways.

Ex. SWG used Flair to transport SWG passengers. This flight was not a Flair going south anyways and so SWG decided to put some passengers on it.

As well, I believe Rouge did a few flights for SWG early on. These were SWG flights operated by Rouge, not Rouge flights that SWG threw some passengers on.

I would be concerned if SWG starts up a small flying program flying SWG passengers to SWG destinations but uses another carrier to get them there.
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boeingboy
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Re: Scope

Post by boeingboy »

I wouldn't be worried about it. Sunwing is simply doing what we've always done. Routes with not enough lift for our own use will be used with a charter. We are not filling the other guys plane to capacity - otherwise we would use our own.

We are in fact using our own aircraft now. The limited winter sched is using our own aircraft, and the flying we will do early next year out of Buffalo to Mexico for Vacation express will be our own aircraft. Sunwing the airline will always be around. Once things get back to normal - the same issues will still be here. It's the whole reason they started the airline in the first place. For the short term, we just have to muttle through to the other side of Covid any way we can.
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tbaylx
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Re: Scope

Post by tbaylx »

whipline wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:33 pm You forgot Swoop and flair.

And no scope...
Flair is not flying for SWG nor have they in the past as far as I'm aware. Swoop was operating some SWG flights at one point.
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