Conservatives...

[Yoyoma]

After being away from Canada for many years, I had lost touch with our political system and now I'm back in the midst of an election!

I've looked at what each team has to offer and to be quite frank, the conservatives have the financial and military platform that I would like to see implemented!

The liberals are singing an old song and god knows what the NDP have in mind!

But help me with this...As much as I'm supposed to hate the Liberals, how can I vote Conservatives when I know they oppose homosexual marriage and have no real environmental program. I have a gay person as a close relative and I’m a big tree/animal hugger!!

What’s the logical solution for our country?

[ScudRunner]

Well I think the whole Gay thing is just something to keep the Christian right happy, I dont understand it I feel the same way as you its the only this I dont like about there platform. All they said there going to do is hold a open vote in the house on it. But im still voting Conservative the way it is with Gay Marriage and the provences they wont be able to change it back. Thats my 2 cents.

[Scuba_Steve]

my own personall feeling is that when/if they hold a free vote it will pass once again, at least I hope it does. COnservatives are not going to get a majority, or will only get a slim one. And a few of them are pro gay marriage.

That being said they still intend to extend spousal rights to gay 'unions' what we're arguing over is basically a word, not entitlments of gays couples. Which is silly, but hey gotta keep that conservative right happy or else they may vote christian heritage.

like you its the only area of their platform I disagree with, and yes I do wish they had more depth to their enviornmental platform too, but, to me at least the liberals are only talking envioronment, not doing anything so I'll give the CPC a shot.

[justplanecrazy]

But help me with this...As much as I'm supposed to hate the Liberals, how can I vote Conservatives when I know they oppose homosexual marriage and have no real environmental program. I have a gay person as a close relative and I’m a big tree/animal hugger!!

Well what do you think is more important to Canada would be my first question for you? Would you like to see a health care system that works, a military platform that wouldn't have our own country laughing, a productive relationship with our trading partners, no multi billion dollar programs for absolutely no reason. The fact is that Canada is in a very dangerous state right now. Our closest Allie and largest trading partner is quickly going down the tubes and China will soon be the new superpower of the world if things don't change. If we don't have responsible leadership that will help switch things around in the next decade, we may be too far advanced in this downward spiral to have the Canada that we know and love in 50 years.

Looking at it that way in my mind, definately puts moral values and the environment on the back seat. I feel this is the way that the conservatives feel too. Even though they bring up gay marriage, they would never invoke the not withstanding clause or do anything drastic that will limit the rights of homosexuals, no matter how strong their feelings are. With the minority government that they will form, they will not be able to do anything drastic with all of the opposing parties saying they're for gay marriage. If they really had a hate on for the alternative lifestyle, do you think they'd allow people that are for gay marriage in their party and especially allow those people to vote on the parties stance?

As far as the environment is concerned, I don't think that a lousy program is better then no program. You can't simply implement an act for the whole country when the provinces aren't in agreement. Point in case Koyoto was implemented and since then our emmisions have gone up 24%. Until a real program is created that the provinces will honour and work towards, the funds directed into the environment will be thrown in the round file. What I'd like to see as a partial tree hugger myself, is an environment fund for the individual provinces and the acountability at the provincial level. This is something that the Conservatives are spelling out. More provincial responsibility and less federal programs. To keep a party in power because you feel that their speeches and signatures on an environmental platform make you feel warm and fuzzy is pointless. Our emmisions have gone up 24% since Koyoto, what more evidence do you need to see that the Liberals don't care.

Bottom line is both parties will have the same effect on the environment and gay marriage. It won't change no matter who you vote for, so base your vote on the other priorities.

[flyinhigh]

Ah, the election.
well I am defenately going to get flamed for this, just cause of my opinion.

gouverment is crap I don't care what anyone says, you get all these jackass's that would be perfect lawyers(cause they lie and bullshit all the time) that tell the entire country come election exactly what they want to hear, they get elected and don't do a damn thing they say.
The one that I really love is we're going to lower GST, well I believe that the last person to say that was chreiten(I know I can't spell it), did it happen nope, he was full of crap. Now chreitien I will give credit for not getting us involved in the whole terrisom issue, but I personally think that is the only good thing that guy did.

Now this election is the same, the conservatives are just constantly saying liberals did this, liberals did that, liberals are flying around using this plane, we're using this plane, thats enviormentaly friendly not theres. I would vote for them if I thought that they would ACTUALLY do what they are going to say. Than as perviously mentioned the whole gay marriage crap, well my point of view is, regardless of what you say, gay people are still going to be together regardless of what you believe so let them be.

The bloc quebeco or however you spell that, well I won't go there so I am a huge hockey fan and when they mentioned quebec having its own national team that just pissed me off and made me laugh.

The Liberals, yes they have contraversy, big time. to many scandels for me, but I do remember that the last election right after the conservative's lost they started this scandel deal and it hasn't stopped, something is not right here, if it was a small deal than it would have been fixed by now.
They haven't done a damn thing that they say they were going to do since elected just like the typical politian.

The Green Party, lol, they got my vote just for being the underdog.

anyway end of my rant, let the hardships begin.
As I sayed before this is my opinion, now stat yours.

[cyyz]

gouverment is crap I don't care what anyone says, you get all these jackass's that would be perfect lawyers(cause they lie and bullshit all the time) that tell the entire country come election exactly what they want to hear, they get elected and don't do a damn thing they say.
The one that I really love is we're going to lower GST, well I believe that the last person to say that was chreiten(I know I can't spell it), did it happen nope, he was full of crap. .

ARGHHHHHHHHH, the liberals promised to "REMOVE" that would be take away, no more pay the GST. And they came back with oh, we don't have the funds to do so, Surplus surplus surplus...

The conservatives want to "REDUCE" you know "CUT" "SLASH" "make smaller" by 2%. The reason I'll make anyone a bet on this with anyone is that it's a REDUCTION and when we've had SURPLUSES every bloody year, that means they can afford to CUT the farking GST.

BUT when you PM to take me up on the offer the rules are, the cons will introduce legislation, whether the other parties vote yes or no on the issue is mute, the bet is that the PC will try to REDUCE it, whether the legislation passes or not, not my problem, and you'll have lost the bet.

[Yoyoma]

Wow cyyz, I think you were thinking faster than you were typing!! It looks as if you barfed your letters onto that response!

I can't make out a word you're saying!

Sorry, couldn't pass that one up!

[shimmydampner]

I don't necessarily agree with the Conservative platform in all areas, but I think a minority Conservative government would be very healthy for Canada. We need some new life breathed into the government to get the Liberal stink out. A couple issues I have though:
The Conservatives say they're going to lower the GST, but yesterday they decided that they are going to undo the income tax reductions that the Liberals just recently brought in. This was after originally saying that they would not do that. Personally, I'd rather have the extra pennies on my paycheck so I can decide what to do with it, rather than save $2 on every $100 I spend.
Paul Martin tossed a big shiny voter lure out a couple days ago with his post-secondary education plan. The Conservatives could (and should) easily out-do this with a little creative thinking on their parts. Education should be more important to politicians than it usually is, and they should help make it more accessible and affordable for all.
The environment. Yeah, the Liberals are huge hypocrits on this issue. But to say that this issue should be put on the back burner is irresponsible. There's no reason we can't address all the problems at home as well as the environment. We live in the most beautiful country in the world and we are slowly poisoning it along with the rest of the planet. The deterioration of the environment is not going to slow down or go away if we ignore it. We need to take real major steps in saving what we have before it's too late.

[North Shore]

It kills me to say this, but I really think that the Cons are on a winning horse here..they have momentum and energy, and their 'policy announcement every 2 days' strategy seems to have helped the Liberals dig themselves into a fairly deep, but not inescapable, hole.

However, to my knowledge, there has been no announcement yet as to how Mr. Harper plans to pay for all of his goodies. There was a small item on CBC last night to the effect that the Cons were going to roll back the Libs' promised tax cuts (basic personal exemption only increased by $500, vs $1000, and first tax will stay at 18%, not the Libs promise of a cut to 17%) in order to make ends meet. To give Mr. Harper credit, though, he is a trained economist, and so he perhaps has a better handle on this than most of the rest of us. I hope, though, that he can continue where the Libs left off, and continue to pay off the debt!

More provincial responsibility and less federal programs.

Hmmm....while this comment was made in the context of the environment, I'm not sure if I agree with this in general. Province A makes widgets, with no environmental penalty for polluting, and therefore a cheaper cost of production, whilst Province B, which has the same widget factory, penalizes pollution, thus increasing the cost. Who is going to stay in the widget business in B? Unless there's some way of having a national standard, enforceable by the federal government, then the race to the bottom will begin, and we'll all pay the price eventually. I think that the same argument can be made for Health Care and many other things also....

PS. Lest you think I'm a Liberal apologist, I voted Green last time, and probably will this time, too.

[Dust Devil]

PS. Lest you think I'm a Liberal apologist, I voted Green last time, and probably will this time, too.

Why don't you educate us on the green parties platform? What do you like or dislike

[justplanecrazy]

I hope, though, that he can continue where the Libs left off, and continue to pay off the debt!

Not sure where you got your numbers from but I've never seen any record of the Liberals paying off any debt. Yes they managed to pay off the defecit and have sat at a 0 defecit for a few years but debt and defecit are a huge difference. The defecit is simply the interest on our debt. It's kind of like having a credit card and making the min. payments every month. I may be following in blind faith here but I believe that if any party will manage to make this country more profitable and pay down the debt, it'll be the Conservative Party. As far as the tax cuts go, the Conservatives are realistic. They're not like Chretien and throwing an obvious lie out there like simply eliminating the GST. They're reducing it 2% and I believe they can and will do this. Remember when the Liberals were elected we were willing to believe things like GST elimination. That should show you how many promises they've broken compared to their predecesors if now we're questioning whether or not a 2% deduction in GST will happen or not.

More provincial responsibility and less federal programs.

Hmmm....while this comment was made in the context of the environment, I'm not sure if I agree with this in general. Province A makes widgets, with no environmental penalty for polluting, and therefore a cheaper cost of production, whilst Province B, which has the same widget factory, penalizes pollution, thus increasing the cost. Who is going to stay in the widget business in B? Unless there's some way of having a national standard, enforceable by the federal government, then the race to the bottom will begin, and we'll all pay the price eventually. I think that the same argument can be made for Health Care and many other things also....

Well I agree that we shouldn't just abandon the environment but why not persue your provincial governments for that. If you have 12 provinces forced into an agreement that is the same for all of them, you are creating a bias. Alberta has Oil Fields, Ontario has factories, Nova Scotia has Fisheries, B.C. has Forestry. If you take a simple statement like all emmisions decreased 10% in 3 years by all provinces, you'll effect some provinces harshly and others not at all. If you deal with each province on its own, they have a better understanding of their own needs. Each province can reduce as much as is practicable while still allowing their neccessary industries to run. If you want to use your logic, if Canada imposes an overly restrictive emmision agreement, then all the widget factories across Canada will fail when competing against the world. Even if the world honors the same agreement, the countries doing the producing and manufacturing will be hit hard, whereas other countries won't be affected at all. You can't create a blanket plan and be successful. It's like making education plans across Canada National and all the same. The west would be yelling about having to learn so much French and Quebec about learning English. To much Federal power ends up seperating your country as I believe the Liberals have been doing for years. Before the Liberals, the parties in power didn't alienate the individual provinces needs. As Harper has stated, if the provinces aren't in agreement with something it will fail.... Koyoto.

PS. Lest you think I'm a Liberal apologist, I voted Green last time, and probably will this time, too.

Have you ever talked to an environmentalist about the Green Parties Environmental plan? Have they even released one? Do you just vote for them because they call themeselves Green and say we like nature, or have you actually looked at their proposals and decided that they are realistic and will make a difference. You have to remember that electing them won't result in them simply showing up whenever the government needs consultation on an environment issue. They are there for everything and unless they spell out what they stand for on every issue and especially what they want the government to do for the environment, then you should think long and hard about voting for them. That's like me feeling that the military is important. I would never vote for someone based specifically on that though. If you elect the Chief of Defence and all of his defence advisors, the country will fall through the floor with economy, environmental and human right issues. Please, if you vote for the Green Party, do so because you agree with their whole political stance not their environmental one. What would happen if 10% of the seats are given to the Green Party based soley on people voting for the environment, 10% of the seats for the NDP based soley on their acceptance of homosexuality, and 10% of the seats for the Block based soley on their hatred for Canada? You'd end up with 30% of every decision made by a bunch of people who's only concern is environment, alternative lifestyles and Quebec Independence. Say the U.S. wages war against Iran, who will decide if we'll invade or not, well for 30% of our government, who knows. What if inflation goes through the roof, who will decide what policy is best, for 30%, who knows. I use this only as a hypothetical example as most of the people voting for the Block and NDP are doing so based on their overall platform. The same isn't true for the Green Party, people vote for the Green Party based soley on their environmental platform and 90% of those individuals haven't even heard that platform. Same thing with the people voting Liberal simply because they want to ensure gay rights are being protected. What baffles me about that is that everyone knows that it'll be a Minority Government and that the majority of parties in the house have made it very clear that they won't allow the right to gay marriage to be overturned.

[cyyz]

Wow cyyz, I think you were thinking faster than you were typing!! It looks as if you barfed your letters onto that response!

I can't make out a word you're saying!

Sorry, couldn't pass that one up!

I should slow down sometimes.. Breakfast was waiting for me, had to type as fast as my little fingers would go, to bad the brain was going a bit faster...

You're correct.. I rank it as my #1 incoherent rant of the year... No decade. =)

[justplanecrazy]

Paul Martin tossed a big shiny voter lure out a couple days ago with his post-secondary education plan. The Conservatives could (and should) easily out-do this with a little creative thinking on their parts. Education should be more important to politicians than it usually is, and they should help make it more accessible and affordable for all.

I agree with you 100% on the importance of education and the need to provide essentially free post secondary education for our citizens. What I don't agree with is that it is a voter lure. I think less than 10% of my class voted when I was in Univeristy. They're getting what they're asking for and if the young people of this country would get out and vote, the government might actually do something for them. Sad but true.

[cyyz]

Paul Martin tossed a big shiny voter lure out a couple days ago with his post-secondary education plan. The Conservatives could (and should) easily out-do this with a little creative thinking on their parts. .

I hate you! They popped it up, you're right, and if I was stupid I'd vote for them, they probably got a bunch of undergrads that were gonna vote NDP to switch their votes, good move by Paul. To bad, if it does get introduced, it'll have so many stipulations that it'll be nearly impossible for "more" people to get it, but only the few elitists or the few smart people who go to stupid schools so they can get high marks and free scholarships.

I'll wait to see what the Cons will suggest. What you should note, with them offering 2k per family and the libs offering free daycare, it'll be interesting how they'll manage to throw in another $30k per student into the mix.

[cyyz]

I agree with you 100% on the importance of education and the need to provide essentially free post secondary education for our citizens. What I don't agree with is that it is a voter lure. I think less than 10% of my class voted when I was in Univeristy. They're getting what they're asking for and if the young people of this country would get out and vote, the government might actually do something for them. Sad but true.

Like I said, all they bought were the NDP votes the students always make...

PS. They CAN offer free post secondary, just cut the crap out of it, why do you need a $150K dollar prof to teach it for X years, just to give people a piece of paper?

No one goes to University for the "education" they(most) just go for the paper.

[Chantal]

Good day!
People would vote for the Green party because they believe the government should be more like the Green party and not like Big brother. Unfortunately you can't vote for them here, and many people around here can't even vote CPC because there's only Libs and NDP and I bet many want to vote for someone else.
cyyz - thought we already decided there was no "Surplus", because we found out they were lying and drew up the figures to come to a surplus and we are actually in huge debt.
Yoyoma, think you missed some threads on your issue of gays, here's one

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... c&start=25

Pray, pray, pray

[Yoyoma]

Thanks Chantal, I did miss it...

[WJflyer]

http://www.sfu.ca/casr/ft-otherparties2006.htm
Defence Policy Positions — Other Political Parties

By the opening of the second stage of the general election in early January 2006, only the Conservative Party of Canada had made any major policy announcement related to defence. CASR will review separately the record of the Liberal Party of Canada on defence issues and any new commitments made during the campaign.

Here CASR presents a brief overview of the defence policies and positions of the other registered political parties taking part in the 2005/2006 general election.

Bloc Québécois
The Bloc Québécois shows little interest in military affairs (only in October 2005 did Gilles Duceppe announce that an independent Quebec would create its own armed forces). However, there has been consistent opposition to any Canadian participation in missile defence, militarization of space, or the war in Iraq. Foreign policy emphasis has been on increased aid to developing countries. According to the Bloc, a vote in Parliament should be held before any Canadian troops are committed to “zones of conflict” and the primary role of the CF should be peacekeeping missions.

New Democratic Party of Canada
No defence policies had been announced by the NDP at the time of writing. In the 2004 general election, the NDP focused on missile defence and on living conditions for CF members and families ( promising better pay, benefits, and on-base housing ). In response to Tory plans for Arctic defence, Jack Layton said (from Yellowknife) that the Arctic “ does need more protection ... including a physical presence”.[1] Mr. Layton also said that the presence of foreign submarines under the Arctic ice “without Canadian knowledge ... should be of concern to every Canadian”. [2]

Besides “fair salaries, decent housing and safe equipment” for the CF, the NDP continues to oppose US missile defence while supporting UN missions. The NDP claims that “the Liberals have shifted our troops into American-led missions”.

Green Party of Canada
The Green Party proposes a senior umbrella agency for DND, Foreign Affairs and CIDA. This new agency would “set priorities and control budgets... [so that] ... international activities would be better focused, better informed and better co-ordinated”. The Greens have also called “for a measured but complete withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan”, and for Canada’s “terms of engagement in Afghanistan” to be established by the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Pierre Pettigrew, rather than by “senior military officials”.

Canadian Action Party
The Canadian Action Party would increase numbers of CF personnel, and initiate a parliamentary review of future CF roles and capabilities. Only “peacekeeping, protecting our sovereign coastal and artic [sic] borders and disaster relief ” are to be funded. All Canadian planners would be removed “from the Bi-national Planning Group and NORTHCOM”.

Progressive Canadian Party
The Progressive Canadian Party’s defence policy is focused on Canadian security, peacekeeping and funding. The PCs promise to “ensure adequate strength levels, quality of life initiatives and the procurement of new equipment for the Canadian Forces”.

According to party literature, “The first initiative must be the replacement of the Sea King helicopters”. Evidently, PC defence procurement files need updating.

Communist Party of Canada
Marxist Leninist Party of Canada
The Communist Party of Canada and Marxist-Leninists (CPC-ML) would hate being grouped together. But, their defence policy recommendations are related. “Immediate withdrawal of Canada from NORAD and NATO” is the ML answer to what the CPC sees as a “deliberate subordination of Canada to U.S. imperialism ... through NATO and a network of other ‘defence’ agreements”.

Christian Heritage Party of Canada
Appropriately enough, the CHP’s defence policy is primarily apple pie and motherhood. Military alliances and peacekeeping activities are approved of, women in combat roles are not. Recruits will need to prove that they were “not practicing either unnatural or immoral lifestyles”. (How this is to be established is, happily, not specified by the CHP.)

Marijuana Party of Canada
At the time of writing, no defence policy position or commentary was apparent on the Marijuana Party of Canada website. Searching under ‘International Relations’, the results said, “No articles were found”. Searching under ‘Politics’, results showed French articles only (none defence-related). Under ‘Miscellaneous’, results reported “Internal Server Error”.

[shitdisturber]

I think the inevitable with Canadian politics has once again occured; ie, the Conservatives in this case Steven Harper have once again found a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. The dumbass actually announced they would repeal the tax cuts that were supposed to go into effect for the upcoming year and bring in their own plan. Even if, as he claims; their way will result in more money in Canadians' pockets, by saying he'd take away money already promised back to voters, he's given the Liberals the opening they've been waiting for. It should be interesting to watch the Libs jump all over it and watch him try to extract his foot from his mouth.

By the way, I'm voting Green; not because I believe in their platform, I don't, but because I know they can't win here so this is my version of a protest vote. None of our current political parties give a damn about Canadians in my book so I'm voting for a sure loser.

[cyyz]

None of our current political parties give a damn about Canadians in my book so I'm voting for a sure loser.

So vote for Haza. =P

[marktheone]

Not that it will happen but can you imagine the devastation if the green party got in? I don't think thier leader even knows how the house and parliament work does he? We need a conservative majority.

Yoyoma as for the gay marriage thing, it is here to stay. Especially with a minority which is what we are heading for.

[shitdisturber]

None of our current political parties give a damn about Canadians in my book so I'm voting for a sure loser.

So vote for Haza. =P

Ow that's cutting!

[justplanecrazy]

I think the inevitable with Canadian politics has once again occured; ie, the Conservatives in this case Steven Harper have once again found a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. The dumbass actually announced they would repeal the tax cuts that were supposed to go into effect for the upcoming year and bring in their own plan. Even if, as he claims; their way will result in more money in Canadians' pockets, by saying he'd take away money already promised back to voters, he's given the Liberals the opening they've been waiting for. It should be interesting to watch the Libs jump all over it and watch him try to extract his foot from his mouth.

He made that announcement when he announced he was rolling back the GST. His reasoning is that the income tax cuts won't be noticed on your income, unless you actually research it. In other words you won't know whether the gov. gave you the discount and you won't realise when they take it away. The reduction of the GST is a promise that will be obvious whether or not it is followed. Harper stated this from the front and said he wants to be held accountable. Not really sure how thats putting your foot in your mouth. Most of us are expecting 0 of the Liberal promises to be met but can you imagine if the Liberals got in and actually did everything they've promised. There willingness to spout off great promises to every major voting group has really got out of hand this time. They would sink us, and I'll be happy to see most of their dumbass plans never make it to the drawing board. On the other hand the Conservatives have been very realistic in their approach. No wastefull policy announcements like another billion dollar gun registry or completely unrealistic child care program as well as no unrealistic tax cuts. They have laid out a reasonable plan and if you look at the numbers, they can actually follow it.

Lets just look at the child care policy for a minute. The Liberals are promising a complete child care program, a Liberal government will invest at least $11 billion on a national early learning and child care system. The Conservative Party is promising $10.9 billion on a child-care allowance of $1,200 a year for each child under six to parents across the country and $250 million in annual tax credits to fund a community child-care investment program. It estimates that this will create 125,000 new child-care spaces over the next five years.

So to break it down the Liberals are providing $11 and the Tories $10.9 billion, basically the same. With the Tory plan 10 Billion will result in $1200 being handed out to each family for each child under 6. This is what it breaks down to if you simply cut a cheque with the money thats left after the administration fees. Their tax cuts for day care programs will make them more profitable and more programs will start up on their own.

Imagine how much money will actually hit the child care centers after the administration fees in creating a government supported daycare program. What do you think will lose more money at the government level, creating a program to cut cheques or creating a child care system. To top it off, if you're a low income family who has one family member sitting at home raising your child while the other is working full time trying to support your family, you now have to pay for your rich neighbor who has both members working and is dumping their child off at the day care everyday. What about those single mothers working the night shift? Should they be paying for the mothers leaving their kids at daycares and then paying for a nanny/babysitter while they work at night?

This is just one example of how the Liberals and Conservatives handle different problems but the strategy is always the same. The Liberals are all about creating national programs based on a slim majority of the country whereas the Conservatives are basing their policy to effect everyone across Canada equally with a minimum of Federal involvement/waste. I don't know why people can't realise how wastefull redtape federal programs are. Just look at our gun registry... it cost $2 billion dollars to have a bunch of guys with guns send in their gun info and have the government record it in a computer. This with the gun owners paying $80 each out of their own pocket at the same time. $2 billion dollars to do nothing but type some numbers in a computer!!!!

By the way, I'm voting Green; not because I believe in their platform, I don't, but because I know they can't win here so this is my version of a protest vote. None of our current political parties give a damn about Canadians in my book so I'm voting for a sure loser.

ummm... ya. I hope they get in and your riding recieves 0 political attention for the next 4 years, then you will really know what not giving a damn about Canadians is all about. What exactly were you looking for from our gov. to feel so left out?

[hazatude]

I'll take any votes I can get.

[shitdisturber]

Just, you're obviously a Conservative supporter, good for you. As to your thoughts about the cost of the Liberals following through on their promises; I agree it'd cost a fortune, fortunately they won't do it. Anymore than the Conservatives will follow through on theirs, it's called politics in Canada. Will whoever wins ignore the riding I'm currently in? Of course they will; it'll never go anything but Conservative so the Liberals will punish us by ignoring us, and the Conservatives can ignore us because it's safe to do so. Also called politics in Canada.