CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Covid related topics that are connected to travel or the aviation industry.
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montado
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by montado »

loudmouth wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:25 pm Only a shitty person would make such a big deal about wearing a mask to potentially protect others. Literally the EASIEST thing in the would to do next to washing your hands. And turn it into a discussion like this one.

Hope I never share a flight deck with you Montano. Hopefully after Oct31 that won't be a problem anymore.
Its ironic because you probably don't wear a mask in the Flight deck. But no you won't have to worry after the 31st.
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dialdriver
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by dialdriver »

montado wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:43 am Why do pilots wear a shirt and tie. I bet the plane falls out of the sky if they don't.

Of course a surgeon or dentist wearing a mask makes sense. The surgical mask wont stop aerosols from transmitting but it will stop large droplets from spreading. And that's good enough for me to say I want my dentist to wear a mask. Unfortunately if I have covid, my dentist working in my mouth is at high risk for transmission, even with the mask they wear. I'm also at high risk of transmission from the dentist, because his surgical mask wont stop aerosols.

So there you have it, we don't have to debate that argument for the 10th time.

I said mask policy is idiotic... as in not the things we have been doing for decades... this is not the mask policy I'm talking about... funny how people come out to debate and they act like I'm changing the direction the planet spins....I'm debating the new mask policy.. the mask policy that was never implemented for decades of flu seasons, but apparently today as basically eradicated the flu.

This is the mask policy that applies to the university of Waterloo study that says 90 percent of aerosols escape from cloth masks. The best science today says covid spreads by aerosols. So i am just curious what that translates to in how effective masking is? How much covid transmission was stopped?

I used google to find your answer to your question
dialdriver wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:22 am Why do surgical teams wear masks?
For a century, the surgical mask has been the symbol of a safe and sanitary medical environment. The problem: researchers don't really know if that's true. With the H1N1 influenza pandemic spreading every day, experts are still debating what type of mask to wear and how much protection that mask truly provides, particularly for those at the front lines of transmission -- healthcare workers. Major health agencies, including the World Health Organization, the CDC, and others, have offered confusing and sometimes contradictory guidelines. Moreover, those guidelines differ for healthcare workers and ordinary citizens worried about the spread of H1N1. Even among healthcare professionals, there are different guidelines for medical wards and operating rooms. Still, most healthcare professionals have concluded that, at the very worst, a mask can't hurt, even if it may provide a false sense of safety.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectious ... trol/16278

The evidence is weak, masks are a "symbol of safe and sanitary", and masks cant hurt. So shoulder shrug... If people feel better with masks, it doesnt matter what the science says... just go with it. Placebo, the same reason pilots wear a uniform, because if I walk on a plane with ripped jeans and a t-shirt panic might just happen.

The funny thing is this is research from a hospital setting with trained professionals. If masking in the medical field is also somewhat controversial with the science, what makes you think telling everyone to pretend they are sick and to wear a fake mask will derive at better results?
Your reference also says this:

"We do think it's a pretty obvious way somebody can go about containing their secretions."

If you think an airplane will crash if you don't wear a shirt and tie, you're not worth bothering with.
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montado
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by montado »

dialdriver wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:11 am Your reference also says this:

"We do think it's a pretty obvious way somebody can go about containing their secretions."

If you think an airplane will crash if you don't wear a shirt and tie, you're not worth bothering with.
That was my whole point. It’s stupid to think a plane would crash because a uniform, just like it’s stupid to think a surgeon won’t pass you covid because of a mask.

More than anything, a surgical mask is part of the image of a doctor. That is the primary part of the mask. The actual efficacy of the mask is secondary. You can google many studies on this, it’s not even really up for debate. There are zero conclusive studies that say masks for surgeons are a game changer. All the surgical mask studies find very little difference in outcomes with mask use. Respirator is the way to go. Highly effective when used as directed. Studies also point out removing your respirator and putting it back on can significantly diminish its efficacy. This whole go to the gym and wear your mask between equipment and remove it to use the equipment is a huge joke.

Surgical masks to surgeons is like the tie to a pilot. It’s part of the uniform.
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dialdriver
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by dialdriver »

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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by dialdriver »

montado wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:22 am
dialdriver wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:11 am Your reference also says this:

"We do think it's a pretty obvious way somebody can go about containing their secretions."

If you think an airplane will crash if you don't wear a shirt and tie, you're not worth bothering with.
That was my whole point. It’s stupid to think a plane would crash because a uniform, just like it’s stupid to think a surgeon won’t pass you covid because of a mask.

More than anything, a surgical mask is part of the image of a doctor. That is the primary part of the mask. The actual efficacy of the mask is secondary. You can google many studies on this, it’s not even really up for debate. There are zero conclusive studies that say masks for surgeons are a game changer. All the surgical mask studies find very little difference in outcomes with mask use. Respirator is the way to go. Highly effective when used as directed. Studies also point out removing your respirator and putting it back on can significantly diminish its efficacy. This whole go to the gym and wear your mask between equipment and remove it to use the equipment is a huge joke.

Surgical masks to surgeons is like the tie to a pilot. It’s part of the uniform.
Where do you get that idea from?

Your own reference says this:

"We do think it's a pretty obvious way somebody can go about containing their secretions."
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by AnonPilot »

montado wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:22 am
dialdriver wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:11 am Your reference also says this:

"We do think it's a pretty obvious way somebody can go about containing their secretions."

If you think an airplane will crash if you don't wear a shirt and tie, you're not worth bothering with.
That was my whole point. It’s stupid to think a plane would crash because a uniform, just like it’s stupid to think a surgeon won’t pass you covid because of a mask.

More than anything, a surgical mask is part of the image of a doctor. That is the primary part of the mask. The actual efficacy of the mask is secondary. You can google many studies on this, it’s not even really up for debate. There are zero conclusive studies that say masks for surgeons are a game changer. All the surgical mask studies find very little difference in outcomes with mask use. Respirator is the way to go. Highly effective when used as directed. Studies also point out removing your respirator and putting it back on can significantly diminish its efficacy. This whole go to the gym and wear your mask between equipment and remove it to use the equipment is a huge joke.

Surgical masks to surgeons is like the tie to a pilot. It’s part of the uniform.
Could you post the studies? I would like to read them. I’ve read a few “masks don’t work” studies with very poor design. Ex. Not controlling for behaviour outside of the environment they were studying.

I don’t know if this is the case here but regardless, worth a read.
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montado
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by montado »

What I don’t understand is why people want to debate with me. I literally just post the science, and then people want to debate me like it’s my research. Why are you arguing with me about surgical masks? You asked me why a surgeon wears one, and I can find you 10 studies on surgical masks that say they aren’t very effective at all. Go take it up with the people who did the studies. Does a mask block your spit… obviously. Does that mean it stops aerosols? No. Does that mean it prevents transmission of disease, no. All these studies on flu like viruses pre covid show masks don’t really do much to prevent virus transmission. The outcomes are statistically insignificant. Debate all you want but I’m just the messenger. I don’t know why people are so heartbroken when a study says 90 percent of aerosols escape cloth masks, or surgical masks statistically don’t make any difference in viral transmission in the hospital setting.

When I say masks don’t work, this doesn’t mean they can’t work, it doesn’t mean we should never wear them.

I’m saying the application is wasteful, not targeted, illogical, against science.

Are there times people should wear a mask? Absolutely… if I was symptomatic and going to a doctors appointment absolutely! Even if it was not mandatory, I would do it! This is common sense no?

But let’s look at mask policy
Does the policy follow science? Well to start, reusing cloth masks is totally against science. Mask policy at a gym is against science, and probably the most idiotic policy of all. Vaccinated people wearing masks is not against science, but the risk is low and for that reason it’s illogical. Wearing masks outdoors, anti science. Does it make sense for kids to wear masks in school all day, maybe to some, I have a problem with it. I think kids need to develop social skills. Kids are very low risk to covid. Parents are vaccinated… so as for schools I’m against it.

You guys read into this to much as if I have some sort of whacky idea. Are you all that brainwashed to come up with some critical thinking?
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by photofly »

montado wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:46 am What I don’t understand is why people want to debate with me. I literally just post the science…
Er, no you don’t. You post a bunch of self-generated opinion and claim it’s fact.

What we don’t understand is why you care so much.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
montado
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by montado »

AnonPilot wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:41 am Could you post the studies? I would like to read them. I’ve read a few “masks don’t work” studies with very poor design. Ex. Not controlling for behaviour outside of the environment they were studying.

I don’t know if this is the case here but regardless, worth a read.
Sorry, but I have been posting this stuff here from the beginning of the pandemic. I’m not going back to it. This is just beating around the bush. Go read all the studies you can find pre pandemic. If you find some that say surgical asks are effective report back to me.

You guys just want to tag team and attack me. Take my energy. :lol: :lol: :lol: You will ask for the information, I’ll spend all day providing it. Then you will be like “that’s not peer reviewed” and give your one line “you are wrong” answer.

I know this stupid game people play. It’s a waste of time.

At least one other person posted a link to a study. That was nice to see, at least something to debate.

Others just post their stupid garbage “why do surgeons wear masks” as if this statement concludes that mandatory masks for all is the best thing since sliced bread.

I will happily read the studies anyone finds that says surgical masks are effective. What does this even have to do with covid? I don’t know! Covid spreads by aerosols, and cloth masks don’t really stop aerosols right?
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montado
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by montado »

photofly wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:49 am
montado wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:46 am What I don’t understand is why people want to debate with me. I literally just post the science…
Er, no you don’t. You post a bunch of self-generated opinion and claim it’s fact.

What we don’t understand is why you care so much.
Why do you care so much?
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dialdriver
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by dialdriver »

montado wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:46 am Are you all that brainwashed to come up with some critical thinking?
If you had any training in critical thinking or logical reasoning, you wouldn't have posted anything.
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by dialdriver »

montado wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:43 am

Of course a surgeon or dentist wearing a mask makes sense.
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montado
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by montado »

dialdriver wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:58 am
montado wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:46 am Are you all that brainwashed to come up with some critical thinking?
If you had any training in critical thinking or logical reasoning, you wouldn't have posted anything.
:lol: What are you talking about? Critical thinking means don't ask questions? Just accept everything as fact? You have some strange ideas. :lol:
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dialdriver
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by dialdriver »

montado wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:02 am
dialdriver wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:58 am
montado wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:46 am Are you all that brainwashed to come up with some critical thinking?
If you had any training in critical thinking or logical reasoning, you wouldn't have posted anything.
:lol: What are you talking about? Critical thinking means don't ask questions? Just accept everything as fact? You have some strange ideas. :lol:
It's no surprise you feel critical thinking is a strange idea. Where did I state don't ask questions and accept everything as fact?
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by Aviatard »

dialdriver wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:06 am
montado wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:02 am
dialdriver wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:58 am

If you had any training in critical thinking or logical reasoning, you wouldn't have posted anything.
:lol: What are you talking about? Critical thinking means don't ask questions? Just accept everything as fact? You have some strange ideas. :lol:
It's no surprise you feel critical thinking is a strange idea. Where did I state don't ask questions and accept everything as fact?
Montado is king of straw men.
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montado
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by montado »

Glad to be king of something! :lol:

Thanks!
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by AnonPilot »

montado wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:53 am
AnonPilot wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:41 am Could you post the studies? I would like to read them. I’ve read a few “masks don’t work” studies with very poor design. Ex. Not controlling for behaviour outside of the environment they were studying.

I don’t know if this is the case here but regardless, worth a read.
Sorry, but I have been posting this stuff here from the beginning of the pandemic. I’m not going back to it. This is just beating around the bush. Go read all the studies you can find pre pandemic. If you find some that say surgical asks are effective report back to me.

You guys just want to tag team and attack me. Take my energy. :lol: :lol: :lol: You will ask for the information, I’ll spend all day providing it. Then you will be like “that’s not peer reviewed” and give your one line “you are wrong” answer.

I know this stupid game people play. It’s a waste of time.

At least one other person posted a link to a study. That was nice to see, at least something to debate.

Others just post their stupid garbage “why do surgeons wear masks” as if this statement concludes that mandatory masks for all is the best thing since sliced bread.

I will happily read the studies anyone finds that says surgical masks are effective. What does this even have to do with covid? I don’t know! Covid spreads by aerosols, and cloth masks don’t really stop aerosols right?
Weird response. I wasn’t attacking or teaming up I was genuinely curious about the studies showing that masks provide no benefit for surgeons or their patients.
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dialdriver
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by dialdriver »

montado wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:53 am
AnonPilot wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:41 am Could you post the studies? I would like to read them. I’ve read a few “masks don’t work” studies with very poor design. Ex. Not controlling for behaviour outside of the environment they were studying.

I don’t know if this is the case here but regardless, worth a read.
Sorry, but I have been posting this stuff here from the beginning of the pandemic. I’m not going back to it. This is just beating around the bush. Go read all the studies you can find pre pandemic. If you find some that say surgical asks are effective report back to me.

You guys just want to tag team and attack me. Take my energy. :lol: :lol: :lol: You will ask for the information, I’ll spend all day providing it. Then you will be like “that’s not peer reviewed” and give your one line “you are wrong” answer.

I know this stupid game people play. It’s a waste of time.

At least one other person posted a link to a study. That was nice to see, at least something to debate.

Others just post their stupid garbage “why do surgeons wear masks” as if this statement concludes that mandatory masks for all is the best thing since sliced bread.

I will happily read the studies anyone finds that says surgical masks are effective. What does this even have to do with covid? I don’t know! Covid spreads by aerosols, and cloth masks don’t really stop aerosols right?
My friend, a respirologist with 7+ years medical training and about 40 years experience tells me there is lots of evidence to support masks. I do not need him to prove it with studies, but he could.

When I ask for your evidence, you call my question garbage.

Your personal attacks, emotional reasoning,
straw men, grandstanding and false equivalent arguments aren't evidence. They are argumentative fallacies.

Please do not come near me.
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montado
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by montado »

Mhmm tell me more! How is it the experts have been wrong about masks until covid hit? Pre 2020, no experts seem to think masks really worked all the great. You have a friend! Great! So now because your friend you think I should throw out decades of mask research? All of a sudden covid hits and the only thing relevant is the “new science” :lol:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.3222702

Experts testified that it was illogical to force healthy nurses to wear masks, and Hayes concluded the masks were not protecting patients or nurses from the flu. "The sad part about it is it was giving our patients a false sense of security, and we knew that," said Haslam-Stroud.

All of a sudden the science changed! We went from surgical masks don’t make sense (in a hospital full of sick people), to cloth masks are the answer to end the pandemic (and everyone should wear them while indoors)! :lol:

A virus way more contagious than the flu, that spreads by smaller aerosols than the flu, will somehow magically be stopped by cloth masks, when surgical masks were found to be not effective at preventing the spread of the flu pre 2020. Bring your expert friend here so they can explain this science.
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Re: CDC release study on masks during covid. Efficacy is 0.5-1.9 percent.

Post by dialdriver »

montado wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:00 pm Mhmm tell me more! How is it the experts have been wrong about masks until covid hit? Pre 2020, no experts seem to think masks really worked all the great. You have a friend! Great! So now because your friend you think I should throw out decades of mask research? All of a sudden covid hits and the only thing relevant is the “new science” :lol:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.3222702

Experts testified that it was illogical to force healthy nurses to wear masks, and Hayes concluded the masks were not protecting patients or nurses from the flu. "The sad part about it is it was giving our patients a false sense of security, and we knew that," said Haslam-Stroud.

All of a sudden the science changed! We went from surgical masks don’t make sense (in a hospital full of sick people), to cloth masks are the answer to end the pandemic (and everyone should wear them while indoors)! :lol:

A virus way more contagious than the flu, that spreads by smaller aerosols than the flu, will somehow magically be stopped by cloth masks, when surgical masks were found to be not effective at preventing the spread of the flu pre 2020. Bring your expert friend here so they can explain this science.
montado wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:43 am

Of course a surgeon or dentist wearing a mask makes sense.
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