Overtime available

[Ratherbe]

Is it just me or is there a major moral issue in making oneself available for overtime when we are on reduced hours? Everyone wants to see the industry recover but the individuals flying over 90 hours are not saviours they are opportunists. If the Company can’t maintain the schedule they need to increase the DBM’s for all of us. Not to mention our 600 furloughed peers.
Is it just me?

[simply_no_one]

I'm sure you saw the long disgusting post someone made on the AC forum justifying his actions.

[Ratherbe]

Yes but I’m not talking about him. At least he tried to explain himself. There are plenty more. Senior and junior. I saw one who was previously listed as surplus. Go figure.

[altiplano]

Tried to explain?

That's not how it sounded.

"Hey bro flying the cargo to all the hotspots is like, cool, bro."

The guy sounded like a dick. 30 hours at premium is the only motivation.

[RRJetPilot]

I dont know if he was trying to be funny or sarcastic but he sounded like a complete loser. Another one somehow got by the screening process.

[bcflyer]

Is it just me or is there a major moral issue in making oneself available for overtime when we are on reduced hours? Everyone wants to see the industry recover but the individuals flying over 90 hours are not saviours they are opportunists. If the Company can’t maintain the schedule they need to increase the DBM’s for all of us. Not to mention our 600 furloughed peers.
Is it just me?

To answer your question, no it’s not just you. I find it disgusting and extremely short sighted. Just because “it’s in the contract” doesn’t make it morally or even logically right.

[Dias]

I dont know if he was trying to be funny or sarcastic but he sounded like a complete loser. Another one somehow got by the screening process.

False. The screening process is specifically tailored for him to succeed.

[Ratherbe]

I see a couple pilots are very close to breaking 100 hours this month. I wonder which one is going to win the race?

[Commonwealth]

Is it just me or is there a major moral issue in making oneself available for overtime when we are on reduced hours? Everyone wants to see the industry recover but the individuals flying over 90 hours are not saviours they are opportunists. If the Company can’t maintain the schedule they need to increase the DBM’s for all of us. Not to mention our 600 furloughed peers.
Is it just me?

This is a story older than the entire industry. I have seen it at many operators and it is always the same thing. Is there a place or was there a time when this did not happen. I am actually curious if someone has an example.

[alkaseltzer]

Is it just me or is there a major moral issue in making oneself available for overtime when we are on reduced hours? Everyone wants to see the industry recover but the individuals flying over 90 hours are not saviours they are opportunists. If the Company can’t maintain the schedule they need to increase the DBM’s for all of us. Not to mention our 600 furloughed peers.
Is it just me?

As bad of a taste it leaves in your mouth, this is not their fault.

Consider this:
Is it a major moral issue that some of our furloughed pilots are taking King Air FO (not captain) positions? - aren’t they setting back the clock for the 1000hr flight instructor that needs to get that turbine time? YES!! Why does a furloughed Air Canada/Westjet pilot need to go back to flying any small twin turbine as First Officer?!! They have seniority numbers at a major. Give it to someone else.

A ‘scab’ is in the eye of the beholder. This is across all professions and “opportunists” is the storyline behind 7PM TV shows.

Those doing overtime, have their reasons. Maybe it’s greed, or they need it desperately.

One shouldn’t gloat about it, that’s all.

[Ratherbe]

It’s not their fault for being greedy? Who’s is it then? And you’re saying there’s nothing wrong with having zero integrity as long as you keep quiet about it?

Sorry I don’t buy your rationalization.

[simply_no_one]

Is it just me or is there a major moral issue in making oneself available for overtime when we are on reduced hours? Everyone wants to see the industry recover but the individuals flying over 90 hours are not saviours they are opportunists. If the Company can’t maintain the schedule they need to increase the DBM’s for all of us. Not to mention our 600 furloughed peers.
Is it just me?

As bad of a taste it leaves in your mouth, this is not their fault.

Consider this:
Is it a major moral issue that some of our furloughed pilots are taking King Air FO (not captain) positions? - aren’t they setting back the clock for the 1000hr flight instructor that needs to get that turbine time? YES!! Why does a furloughed Air Canada/Westjet pilot need to go back to flying any small twin turbine as First Officer?!! They have seniority numbers at a major. Give it to someone else.

A ‘scab’ is in the eye of the beholder. This is across all professions and “opportunists” is the storyline behind 7PM TV shows.

Those doing overtime, have their reasons. Maybe it’s greed, or they need it desperately.

One shouldn’t gloat about it, that’s all.

Wow.

[alkaseltzer]

It’s not their fault for being greedy? Who’s is it then? And you’re saying there’s nothing wrong with having zero integrity as long as you keep quiet about it?

Sorry I don’t buy your rationalization.

That’s not what I said.

Learn how to rationalize, (maybe read some of the recent memos too), and you’ll understand.

[YHZFog]

Is it just me or is there a major moral issue in making oneself available for overtime when we are on reduced hours? Everyone wants to see the industry recover but the individuals flying over 90 hours are not saviours they are opportunists. If the Company can’t maintain the schedule they need to increase the DBM’s for all of us. Not to mention our 600 furloughed peers.
Is it just me?

In every group, you will have a$$holes that will try to get some advantage while screwing other people, it's human nature I guess. That is why we have institutions that work for the entire group and not for individuals (in theory). We had a similar case at an airline I used to work for, the solution... the union issued a mandate to all pilots not to take any overtime and, the pilot group complied because if not, you would get a call from the president of the union.
In this case, it is more complicated because we don't have an MEC that works for the pilot group. Let's remember that they gave themselves raises while other pilots were being furloughed so, they don't even have the moral high ground to make that phone call.
Just my opinion.

[digits_]

We had a similar case at an airline I used to work for, the solution... the union issued a mandate to all pilots not to take any overtime and, the pilot group complied because if not, you would get a call from the president of the union.

How would such a mandate be enforced? What would happen to the pilot if he ignored the phone call?

[RippleRock]

Is it just me or is there a major moral issue in making oneself available for overtime when we are on reduced hours? Everyone wants to see the industry recover but the individuals flying over 90 hours are not saviours they are opportunists. If the Company can’t maintain the schedule they need to increase the DBM’s for all of us. Not to mention our 600 furloughed peers.
Is it just me?

As bad of a taste it leaves in your mouth, this is not their fault.

Consider this:
Is it a major moral issue that some of our furloughed pilots are taking King Air FO (not captain) positions? - aren’t they setting back the clock for the 1000hr flight instructor that needs to get that turbine time? YES!! Why does a furloughed Air Canada/Westjet pilot need to go back to flying any small twin turbine as First Officer?!! They have seniority numbers at a major. Give it to someone else.

A ‘scab’ is in the eye of the beholder. This is across all professions and “opportunists” is the storyline behind 7PM TV shows.

Those doing overtime, have their reasons. Maybe it’s greed, or they need it desperately.

One shouldn’t gloat about it, that’s all.

HUGE difference between an AC pilot flying 90 hours+ and a guy trying to feed their family in the right seat of a King Air. I fail to see any parallel.

Not ONE pilot should be accepting, or listing for VO with Members on lay-off. There should be a list of these hogs circulating. They are greedy nothing more. There is NO WAY to justify it, just as there wasn't back in the summer of 2004 and 2005 with 185 pilots on the street. ACPA as usual is silent on the matter, which is equally disgusting.

Personally, I would never do it as there are plenty that will soon be FO's of mine. It would make for an icy layover/flightdeck and I couldn't blame them one fig. It's easy for them to figure out who the hogs are, and those hogs will wear that title like they should.

[Mrbobmarly111]

Holy everyone relax. Im Furloughed and im ok with people taking overtime etc etc.... this is the way things are who cares. If they wouldn't the next person would take it. If you want VO draft etc to stop it has to be union mandated. Otherwise just relax.

[simply_no_one]

Holy everyone relax. Im Furloughed and im ok with people taking overtime etc etc.... this is the way things are who cares. If they wouldn't the next person would take it. If you want VO draft etc to stop it has to be union mandated. Otherwise just relax.

I'm not and neither are many other furloughed pilots I know. And many active pilots. You're an anomaly.

The idea is NO ONE should be taking VO. So if someone passes then no one after them should say yes. Flight gets cancelled or delayed so a reserve can do it. Then the company has to contemplate what do going forward, which means considering recalls earlier than later. It's not rocket surgery.

It's called a little fucking solidarity. Something many AC pilots have yet to learn. But as long as people like the guy who made that long post on the other forum exist who defend flying 100 hours, nothing will change.

[Jimmy_Hoffa]

Is it just me or is there a major moral issue in making oneself available for overtime when we are on reduced hours? Everyone wants to see the industry recover but the individuals flying over 90 hours are not saviours they are opportunists. If the Company can’t maintain the schedule they need to increase the DBM’s for all of us. Not to mention our 600 furloughed peers.
Is it just me?

As bad of a taste it leaves in your mouth, this is not their fault.

Consider this:
Is it a major moral issue that some of our furloughed pilots are taking King Air FO (not captain) positions? - aren’t they setting back the clock for the 1000hr flight instructor that needs to get that turbine time? YES!! Why does a furloughed Air Canada/Westjet pilot need to go back to flying any small twin turbine as First Officer?!! They have seniority numbers at a major. Give it to someone else.

A ‘scab’ is in the eye of the beholder. This is across all professions and “opportunists” is the storyline behind 7PM TV shows.

Those doing overtime, have their reasons. Maybe it’s greed, or they need it desperately.

One shouldn’t gloat about it, that’s all.

HUGE difference between an AC pilot flying 90 hours+ and a guy trying to feed their family in the right seat of a King Air. I fail to see any parallel.

Not ONE pilot should be accepting, or listing for VO with Members on lay-off. There should be a list of these hogs circulating. They are greedy nothing more. There is NO WAY to justify it, just as there wasn't back in the summer of 2004 and 2005 with 185 pilots on the street. ACPA as usual is silent on the matter, which is equally disgusting.

Personally, I would never do it as there are plenty that will soon be FO's of mine. It would make for an icy layover/flightdeck and I couldn't blame them one fig. It's easy for them to figure out who the hogs are, and those hogs will wear that title like they should.

This sentiment is deeply flawed in its foundation.
There is literally only one fleet at one base that is seeing these numbers of hours. None of the other base groups are even coming close. Pilots doing VO will do nothing to bring back pilots on furlough, in fact I am surprised we have not furloughed more.
Everything that has been done at the Union / contract level has been done to protect and benefit those individuals that are sitting at home and have not even seen an airplane in a year or those that will not come even close to getting over the minimum guarantee. Nothing has been done to recognize or benefit the pilots that have actually been flying all year long and been greeted like lepers amongst their communities upon their return home. Including by extension their family members, especially those having to deal with life in ‘the bubble.’ So I don’t blame anyone at this point for increasing their compensation after 1 year of reduced wages and increased negative affects directly related to being on a fleet doing international flights.
As soon as flying returns to other fleets you can guarantee people will be lined up to do VO to make up lost income regardless of pilots on furlough. This isn’t like times past where pilots have been laid off and everyone was still doing full blocks.
To add to the flawed logic why would the representative demographic of the fleet you are pissed at all of a sudden not do VO when the membership overwhelming agrees that they should take pay cuts to secure ‘new’ flying, the very flying that that fleet has been doing to support all those still sitting at home just getting paid.
Pilot unity was destroyed collectively between ACPA and AC over the last decade and every vote in the last 10 years supports that narrative. Why would you expect any less from the pilot group that doing what serves the individual. Just add up the Yes voters.

-Jimmy Hoffa

[mbav8r]

I believe, in Canada anyway, that if the union were to put out a policy or even a recommendation of no OT, that is considered job action and is illegal.

[Mrbobmarly111]

I believe you are correct it would be considered work action.

What im saying is do i like that im Furloughed and there is people doing extra work that I should be doing? Of course not. But you will never ever in a million years be able to convince everyone to agree to not take the extra flying. For example at AC if it gets passed all the way to the bottom they start over at the top at triple time. Ofcourse that never happens. But if you want something like this to be fixed the Union and its members need to put in the contract some kinda language that makes the senior peeps be affected more evenly. For example have a clause that whenever there is Furloughed pilots somone can only work a maximum of 5 hours VO before they will be put at the end of the call list etc... but until that exists things will never change. And personally I would take the overtime purely because i owe it to my younger self. One shift is worth thousands of dollars. And look im Furloughed right now i deserve to get that money in the future.

Ps: i do agree that guy was a knob on the AC form. Definitely a tool.

[GATRKGA]

When the system is fucked right from your new hire practices, and flat pay, are you actually surprised when shit like this happens? Like someone said, if not this guy, then the next one would do it without a doubt. Heck, the guy above me is already saying he's furloughed, so if he has an opportunity to make that $1000 back, why wouldn't he when he's lost so much income? Who knows, maybe this guy is flying his ass off to leave the company with time on type? Or trying to scoop up as much money before he/she is deemed a surplus?

There's no unity amongst anyone at Air Canada. You guys are all in it for yourselves because as a company culture you're shorted morally on so many levels, that it comes out in a frugal, greedy, and a what's in it for me attitude from the workforce. When this is how your company is operated, it spreads like cancer with the net effect being what you see here with guys having no moral compass for picking up 100 hour months while their counterparts are sitting at home.

If you want solidarity amongst your group, it should be a little less talk about vacation homes and boats and a bit more team-building and loyalty generating conversations between how the 20-year guy and 2-year guy can collaborate to build better conditions that benefit both. A pipe dream historically speaking, but you never know, as there are some solid guys/gals there too who completely understand the fragments in the pilot group, and are working actively in trying to change it for the better.

To the one that commented about this guy getting through the screening process, you're putting way too much faith in that dog and pony show. We both know many winners make it through, and many gems don't.

Sorry to see this happen to you guys, you have the power to turn things around if your group collectively wants to. Good luck guys.

[buzzjob]

I am also furloughed, but I get it that there are OT flights available. Unscheduled flights, last minute changes, things very dynamic for the company trying to squeeze every penney they can find. These are tough times...I can very much tell you how tough it is.

Perhaps a solution to this and everyone can grab as much OT as they see fit. What does a 15-20% donation of OT gains be pooled to support our furloughed Brothers and Sisters?

[redbusdriver]

i get why some are doing ot, the simple fact is most of us would to, for various reasons. i know when i get recalled i'll pick up as much as i can to make up for what i've lost. all is fair in love an war.

[simply_no_one]

i get why some are doing ot, the simple fact is most of us would to, for various reasons. i know when i get recalled i'll pick up as much as i can to make up for what i've lost. all is fair in love an war.

I won't pick up a single day of VO when I'm recalled until all furloughs are back. If you choose to do so, just know people are watching and memories aren't short.

Your post here is a perfect example of why AC pilots will NEVER have unity or a significant improvement in our contract.