"Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

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math66
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by math66 »

parallel60 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:12 pm This has probably been mentioned so point me to it if it has, but why does the EU even have a say in two Canadian companies merging? Because they operate flights to the EU? I'm sure the EU's only focus is protecting EU airlines from competition but honestly, that shouldn't matter.

I read above someone mentioned that Canada accepted the deal and EU did not. I suppose if Lufthansa wanted to merge with KLM-Air France Canada could say no? I doubt Canada would have the authority yet the EU did in this potential merger.
from what I understood, they can't block the transaction, however, they have the authority to remove slots (like LHR or CDG $$$), or ask concession to keep a kind of competition.
In the event of a merge between AF/KLM and Lufthansa,, I guess Canada would have the power to say, "ok if no more than 4 flights a day to Canada for AF/KLM/Luftansa" when then have actually 9 flights a day as 2 separate company.
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rudder
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by rudder »

Latitude wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:43 pm I love reading all AC employees comment on the future of Transat. I didn’t know you were part of the board of directors... do you feel better now that you wrote that Transat might be going CCAA ? Wake me up in a couple of weeks/months and let’s see how many of you were totally off track !
What the ‘AC employees’ have apparently that you don’t have is perspective. They have worked for a company with an upside down balance sheet. And they have experienced the bliss of CCAA.

I would pay attention to what is being said. You too may become a CCAA insider.
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Splash
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by Splash »

rudder wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:59 pm
Latitude wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:43 pm I love reading all AC employees comment on the future of Transat. I didn’t know you were part of the board of directors... do you feel better now that you wrote that Transat might be going CCAA ? Wake me up in a couple of weeks/months and let’s see how many of you were totally off track !
What the ‘AC employees’ have apparently that you don’t have is perspective. They have worked for a company with an upside down balance sheet. And they have experienced the bliss of CCAA.

I would pay attention to what is being said. You too may become a CCAA insider.
Too painfully true. Every carrier in Canada is in a world of hurt, some more than others.
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Curiousflyer
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by Curiousflyer »

Splash wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:49 pm Too painfully true. Every carrier in Canada is in a world of hurt, some more than others.
At this point nearly every carrier in Canada has begun to weigh the pros and cons of CCAA/
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by termerair »

At this point nearly every carrier in Canada has begun to weigh the pros and cons of CCAA/
And we are all seating at home watching the boat sink...

It is time to go -again- to Ottawa and occupy days and nights the lawn in front of the parlement.

It is time to go to the major airports, occupy and disrupt the few departing or arriving flights...

It is time that ALL Canadian pilots set the parking brake to ON for as long as it will take to get the respect we deserve as professionals.

It is time to make our voice heard and make some real noise! This is our careers being destroyed, our families being hurt, our sanity being completely ignored... It can't end well.

If we can't fight for this, we are just deserving the treatment inflicted to us for the last year...
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TeePeeCreeper
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by TeePeeCreeper »

termerair wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:37 pm
At this point nearly every carrier in Canada has begun to weigh the pros and cons of CCAA/
It is time to go to the major airports, occupy and disrupt the few departing or arriving flights...

It is time that ALL Canadian pilots set the parking brake to ON for as long as it will take to get the respect we deserve as professionals.

If we can't fight for this, we are just deserving the treatment inflicted to us for the last year...
You do realize that “sticking it” re: “setting the parking brake” or “disrupting flights” for the passengers is NOT a productive manner to go about enacting meaningful change? Right?!?

“Deserving of the treatment inflicted to us”

Are you saying that the little traction that Canadians whom are flying on the airlines should have to “suffer” akin to what you and many others have had to?

My heart goes out to you but I’d like to believe that most keep those kinds of sentiments to themselves as its misdirected anger and frustration.

Take the high road,

TPC
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termerair
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by termerair »

You do realize that “sticking it” re: “setting the parking brake” or “disrupting flights” for the passengers is NOT a productive manner to go about enacting meaningful change? Right?!?
And what has been productive so far...?

The many articles in the newspaper, the interviews on tv (that i have both participated to) have done nothing.

The protest in Ottawa in October where only 400 ppl showed up (when thousands of pilots, FA's and mechanics were out of work) has done nothing... Same for the protest in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver...

The agreement between the fed and the companies to not fly to the southern destinations this winter has done nothing...

How much more insults and trashing do we need to start fighting for our jobs...? It must be nice and easy to be collecting a nice paycheck when your position hasn't been affected too much... But do we collectively realize what is happening to our industry...? ALL of us at EVERY airline will be paying the price (more or less depending who you are working for...) of the current inaction of the clowns at the helm of our country.

If you are not ready to defend the jobs of others, do it for yourself, your future conditions/positions/advancement depend on it...

And above all, this is just a matter of self esteem and respect... Personally I don't accept to be ignored and treated like shit when i have done nothing wrong in my life/career/job.
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330heavy
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by 330heavy »

There are a lot of frustrations in our industry. However, one can not take work action as it's illegal. Secondly, while a great idea floated here before of stopping flights in/out of YOW by airline execs, they, like pilots won't stick together. Someone will restart, or start flights to capture some temporary market. As TPC stated, take the high road and vote the current government clowns out. Keep bombarding MPs with letters. More, bigger protests?
rudder wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:59 pm
Latitude wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:43 pm I love reading all AC employees comment on the future of Transat. I didn’t know you were part of the board of directors... do you feel better now that you wrote that Transat might be going CCAA ? Wake me up in a couple of weeks/months and let’s see how many of you were totally off track !
What the ‘AC employees’ have apparently that you don’t have is perspective. They have worked for a company with an upside down balance sheet. And they have experienced the bliss of CCAA.

I would pay attention to what is being said. You too may become a CCAA insider.
Many of us at TS have been through bankruptcies and permanent lay offs at previous jobs. As you know, the thought of it isn't pleasant.
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rudder
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by rudder »

330heavy wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:19 am
Many of us at TS have been through bankruptcies and permanent lay offs at previous jobs. As you know, the thought of it isn't pleasant.
An insolvency leading to liquidation is straightforward. And extreme.

An insolvency leading to restructuring is much more complex, but means there will be a future for the employees.

I hope that TRZ can avoid both. But saving the business and saving the shareholders are two completely different exercises. I hope that the eventual outcome saves the business.
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330heavy
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by 330heavy »

Yes, you are correct rudder! And thanks for your hope. It is a hope for every carrier in Canada right now for sure.
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Zaibatsu
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by Zaibatsu »

termerair wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:00 am
You do realize that “sticking it” re: “setting the parking brake” or “disrupting flights” for the passengers is NOT a productive manner to go about enacting meaningful change? Right?!?
And what has been productive so far...?

The many articles in the newspaper, the interviews on tv (that i have both participated to) have done nothing.

The protest in Ottawa in October where only 400 ppl showed up (when thousands of pilots, FA's and mechanics were out of work) has done nothing... Same for the protest in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver...

The agreement between the fed and the companies to not fly to the southern destinations this winter has done nothing...

How much more insults and trashing do we need to start fighting for our jobs...? It must be nice and easy to be collecting a nice paycheck when your position hasn't been affected too much... But do we collectively realize what is happening to our industry...? ALL of us at EVERY airline will be paying the price (more or less depending who you are working for...) of the current inaction of the clowns at the helm of our country.

If you are not ready to defend the jobs of others, do it for yourself, your future conditions/positions/advancement depend on it...

And above all, this is just a matter of self esteem and respect... Personally I don't accept to be ignored and treated like shit when i have done nothing wrong in my life/career/job.
Lex Talonis is immature and won’t garner the support of the people who have not only been defrauded by the airlines, but many of whom have lost their livelihoods as well.

I’ll let you in on a little secret that really shouldn’t be a secret. Those big salaries that exist at the top of the airline world. They don’t exist because you are worth it. They don’t exist because you have some sort of special skill set.

They only exist because of events like this that happen every ten years or so. Events that clean house and make lots of pilots find new careers leaving those who manage to stay because of seniority or timing or luck or sheer tenacity among very few compatriots. And when the airlines negotiate contracts they know that very few will ever collect, but they have relatively cheap and disposable labour at the bottom who are only there because of the carrot that will remain elusive for most people.
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JoeyBarton
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by JoeyBarton »

Not sure where you are going with this but it doesn't clean house at air canada and nobody ever leaves air canada and the 4000 on the list currently are or will be making those salaries. Same for the big 3 in the States.
What it does show is how our system is broken whereby some excellent pilots due to bad luck, or timing make the choice of going to weaker airline B or C instead of A in the first place. Even after 20 years at B or C, when it goes bust, said pilot can only go to airline A for 55k being a relief pilot with no reward or proper compensation for the experience he or she brings up. That is messed up.
So essentially, and more than in any other industry, you better make the right choice at age 30-35 with 3-5000h to be sure to be still around with the wage you deserve at age 55. That is what is messed up. And if it wasn't a land of seniority everywhere but a bit more a land of competency, well then any list integration, CCAA or bankruptcy wouldn't entail so much drama and doom and gloom type of hysteria...That's where our problem is, our own system.
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by haironfire »

JoeyBarton wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:27 pm you better make the right choice at age 30-35 with 3-5000h to be sure to be still around with the wage you deserve at age 55.
Such a very true statement. And more importantly, why did I not do this? Sadly, I thought I was at the time. WRONG! Once again.
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Cavalier44
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by Cavalier44 »

haironfire wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:49 am
JoeyBarton wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:27 pm you better make the right choice at age 30-35 with 3-5000h to be sure to be still around with the wage you deserve at age 55.
Such a very true statement. And more importantly, why did I not do this? Sadly, I thought I was at the time. WRONG! Once again.
That's aviation though - it's an unpredictable industry. Every move that you make is a gamble, and some end up luckier than others, but in the end, no move that you make is 100% guaranteed to be safe. There are 600 Air Canada pilots who believed they were making the "right choice" going to mainline, arguably the safest move to make in the Canadian aviation industry, and who are now unfortunately furloughed. These types of major events, i.e. market crashes, global pandemics, terrorist attacks, etc., are out of our control, so I try not to spend too much time worrying about it. If you have experience - the hours, the type ratings, the PIC time - other opportunities will always present themselves in time. The key is sticking it out until that time comes.
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haironfire
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by haironfire »

Agreed. I have told others when flying together you try and make the best choices with the circumstances and facts provided at the time. Then, when sitting in the rocking chair, looking at pictures of airplanes, only then can you say what worked and what didn't throughout your career.

Better days ahead I hope, real soon.
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by simply_no_one »

Zaibatsu wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:57 pm

They only exist because of events like this that happen every ten years or so. Events that clean house and make lots of pilots find new careers leaving those who manage to stay because of seniority or timing or luck or sheer tenacity among very few compatriots. And when the airlines negotiate contracts they know that very few will ever collect, but they have relatively cheap and disposable labour at the bottom who are only there because of the carrot that will remain elusive for most people.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Do you even work for an airline?
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by simply_no_one »

JoeyBarton wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:27 pm Not sure where you are going with this but it doesn't clean house at air canada and nobody ever leaves air canada and the 4000 on the list currently are or will be making those salaries. Same for the big 3 in the States.
What it does show is how our system is broken whereby some excellent pilots due to bad luck, or timing make the choice of going to weaker airline B or C instead of A in the first place. Even after 20 years at B or C, when it goes bust, said pilot can only go to airline A for 55k being a relief pilot with no reward or proper compensation for the experience he or she brings up. That is messed up.
So essentially, and more than in any other industry, you better make the right choice at age 30-35 with 3-5000h to be sure to be still around with the wage you deserve at age 55. That is what is messed up. And if it wasn't a land of seniority everywhere but a bit more a land of competency, well then any list integration, CCAA or bankruptcy wouldn't entail so much drama and doom and gloom type of hysteria...That's where our problem is, our own system.
EXACTLY

I'm all for remaining with a seniority system when it comes to bidding/vacation etc. But for experience, if you have 20 years flying for Emirates and come to AC should you be at year one pay? No, you should be top scale... IMO.
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simply_no_one
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by simply_no_one »

Cavalier44 wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:44 am
haironfire wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:49 am
JoeyBarton wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:27 pm you better make the right choice at age 30-35 with 3-5000h to be sure to be still around with the wage you deserve at age 55.
Such a very true statement. And more importantly, why did I not do this? Sadly, I thought I was at the time. WRONG! Once again.
There are 600 Air Canada pilots who believed they were making the "right choice" going to mainline, arguably the safest move to make in the Canadian aviation industry, and who are now unfortunately furloughed.
I'd still rather be furloughed from AC, than have a number at WJ, AT, SW etc. It still is the one "fairly certain" choice you can make in Canada.
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by rigpiggy »

simply_no_one wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:36 pm
JoeyBarton wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:27 pm Not sure where you are going with this but it doesn't clean house at air canada and nobody ever leaves air canada and the 4000 on the list currently are or will be making those salaries. Same for the big 3 in the States.
What it does show is how our system is broken whereby some excellent pilots due to bad luck, or timing make the choice of going to weaker airline B or C instead of A in the first place. Even after 20 years at B or C, when it goes bust, said pilot can only go to airline A for 55k being a relief pilot with no reward or proper compensation for the experience he or she brings up. That is messed up.
So essentially, and more than in any other industry, you better make the right choice at age 30-35 with 3-5000h to be sure to be still around with the wage you deserve at age 55. That is what is messed up. And if it wasn't a land of seniority everywhere but a bit more a land of competency, well then any list integration, CCAA or bankruptcy wouldn't entail so much drama and doom and gloom type of hysteria...That's where our problem is, our own system.
EXACTLY

I'm all for remaining with a seniority system when it comes to bidding/vacation etc. But for experience, if you have 20 years flying for Emirates and come to AC should you be at year one pay? No, you should be top scale... IMO.
Sorry, time served and good behaviour, or raise the wages of the bottom. to quote almost every union "we don't negotiate for people who aren't here yet
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simply_no_one
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Re: "Three possible Transat suitors say they are not interested in acquiring struggling airline"

Post by simply_no_one »

rigpiggy wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:42 pm
simply_no_one wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:36 pm
JoeyBarton wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:27 pm Not sure where you are going with this but it doesn't clean house at air canada and nobody ever leaves air canada and the 4000 on the list currently are or will be making those salaries. Same for the big 3 in the States.
What it does show is how our system is broken whereby some excellent pilots due to bad luck, or timing make the choice of going to weaker airline B or C instead of A in the first place. Even after 20 years at B or C, when it goes bust, said pilot can only go to airline A for 55k being a relief pilot with no reward or proper compensation for the experience he or she brings up. That is messed up.
So essentially, and more than in any other industry, you better make the right choice at age 30-35 with 3-5000h to be sure to be still around with the wage you deserve at age 55. That is what is messed up. And if it wasn't a land of seniority everywhere but a bit more a land of competency, well then any list integration, CCAA or bankruptcy wouldn't entail so much drama and doom and gloom type of hysteria...That's where our problem is, our own system.
EXACTLY

I'm all for remaining with a seniority system when it comes to bidding/vacation etc. But for experience, if you have 20 years flying for Emirates and come to AC should you be at year one pay? No, you should be top scale... IMO.
Sorry, time served and good behaviour, or raise the wages of the bottom. to quote almost every union "we don't negotiate for people who aren't here yet
I completely disagree. You think when doctors move hospitals they go back to new doctor pay? Even teachers have experience accounted for when moving to a new school.

And for the record they are already crediting experience in the USA at many regional airlines. Its just not at mainlines yet, but it will eventually mark my words.
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