IFR approach plates online? (Castlegar, BC)

ws2000 · Post by **ws2000** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:11 pm

A while back someone posted a link that had a bunch of approaches on a website... tried the search, couldn't find it.

I'm looking for the Castlegar one, I've heard that it's "one of the most challenging approaches out there"... just curious to see what it looks like!

If someone has a link, or could scan& post or describe, I'd appreciate it.

Failing that, even the mins would be helpful.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:38 pm

I believe the Castlegar approach available on line would be the RCAP - Restricted Canada Air Pilot - available only to private 604 air operators or Commercial Air Operators who have the required Ops Spec that allows them to use it. Otherwise, everyone else uses the CAP 2 charts, available at any pilot supply house. There are a couple of approaches available in Castlegar and they are challenging in the fact that the mins are high, the approach is in a mountainous terrain and the pproach is done at high altitude. I have never had a problem with the King Air 200 or 350 but I wpuld hate to have to do it in an Aztec or something other in actual conditions. It can be done but the pucker factor would be on max warp. Another one that is a challenge is Terrace B.C. PM me if you really need a copy.

200hr Wonder · Post by **200hr Wonder** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:54 pm

Ok I was bored I scanned em...

Not valid for navigation and the copyright belogns to whomever owns it not me.

Just to cover my butt.

ws2000 · Post by **ws2000** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:26 pm

Thanks for taking the time to scan! Much appreciated. I can see how that'd be pretty hairy.... need pretty good wx too with 3,000 ish ceiling.

I've never been there, so maybe there's something I'm missing, but gotta wonder why they wouldn't have the approach moved over to the east to come down the valley? Rather than over the 5400' rock in the middle of the approach?

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:38 pm

Valley is too narrow and no place for a missed approach.
One thing to notice is the missed approach. If, for some reason you decide to abandon the approach priorpto the MMAWP, you still have to fly the entire missed approach as published. Most pilots do but some flatlanders cut it short because they can. Here, you have to get out of the mountains first.

Raydar · Post by **Raydar** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:16 pm

CYCG is where a contact approach really comes in handy. A lot of days if you see a whole over the arrow lakes it is easier to cancel ifr and come in over the water. Check the weather though you don't want to run into low ceilings at the airport.

Airtids · Post by **Airtids** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:35 pm

Ah, yes, Cancelgar! Seen many a wide-eyed Netjets pilot dismount here. It's also funny how the general public believes that so many flights miss/get cancelled because the Wx here is sooo much worse than elsewhere!

The GPS was an improvement as it lowered the mins a further 500'+-, but these past two winters in particular have been terrible. Local knowledge goes a LOOONG way to getting in. As has been stated by Raydar, the contact is a great option, provided you've got the local knowledge. One point, though, you don't have to cancel IFR with a contact approach, but it's in your best interests to make sure you've got the Wx at destination before dropping through some 'sucker' hole over the lake.

Personally, I always wondered why they didn't bring the approach in from the south, to the Champion beacon for the missed, to climb outbound up the lake tracking from the brilliant beacon. The terrain is much lower to the south, and the missed would be much more straightforward. Hard to say without actually applying the profile to it, but instinctively it LOOKS like one would be able to get a bit lower.

There is the potential for WAAS to make a HUGE difference at our airport here, but the reality is that you're going to see it implemented in Saskatoon, or some similar, featureless terrain to prove itself before we ever get access to the technology out here where it will really make a difference.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:13 am

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:27 am

Holy Christmas! That's some approach. I'm a flatlander, I don't get paid enough to fly approaches like that

I think an easier and safer way to get to Castlegar might be to have someone fly you overhead, then strap on a chute and jump out the door.

Call it the Vertical/Silk F approach!

A variation on the above would be the Vertical/Spin G approach: use the GPS to maneuver directly overhead the airport, and kick it into a spin

ptc · Post by **ptc** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:31 am

ahh castlegar...i flew out there for a year and even flying VFR there was sometimes interesting...saw some pretty wild approaches by the regionals as well...

have to say that it was also one of the most beautiful places to fly around

F-16 · Post by **F-16** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:39 am

Seeing those plates brings back some great memories - thanks for scanning them in. All of B.C. was awesome for flying, Castlegar, Cranbrook, Terrace, Prince Rupert, etc. Some of the best stuff was doing the approach into Prince Rupert and running up the channels to Stewart, or appch into Castlegar, and going VFR around the corner to Trail with some tight maneuvering, and the Bella Bella approach, with the run over to Bella Coola.

Certainly makes you a proficient pilot in a hurry - don't really have a choice, and believe it or not, the challenges sure become a lot of fun.

B.C. Medevac's are a great opportunity and anyone who has a chance to do this type of flying while building their career, should jump at the opportunity. Now that I'm flying on the flatlands, I yearn for just one more trip to Castlegar, or Terrace on a bad IFR day, just to go for the challenge.

Too bad you don't realize what you've got until it's gone.

4low · Post by **4low** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:00 am

Maybe someone could scan the departure procedures in. The approach is an approach and if you stick to it all is peachy but take a look at the departure procedure...lots of time between takeoff and the top of the mountains to have an engine failure and have nowhere to go.

200hr Wonder · Post by **200hr Wonder** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:21 am

Um I did include the departure

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:59 am

If you look up in the N.E. crner of the chartss, you will see a lake symbolized. That is approximatly where Nelson is. That is where Airtids hangs his hat. Just south, off the chart is where Trail is. That is home turf for Carson's King Air 350.

4low · Post by **4low** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:29 pm

200hr Wonder wrote:Um I did include the departure

sorry...I don't know how i missed that the first time

Edo · Post by **Edo** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:22 pm

At first glace I thought these were Jepp charts given the shading and contour features but i can see they are from the CAP

When did the colour shading and countour lines come out. Are these only on the plates for the mountainous regions?

SRV · Post by **SRV** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:02 pm

Anyone remember the old "company only" plate that had minimums of 1600'+- and a MAP 2DME past the the airport southbound?

How about when PWA would come down the valley over town and all you could see was the top of the plane as it passed by the airport downwind for 33!!!

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:15 pm

I worked for Jazz out of YVR a few years ago and they have YCG down to an art form, flown very safely everyday. The trick is not lowered minimums but lowered expectations. The Dispatch department fondly calls the place 'Cancellgar'. There is some very good advice in this thread about the mill and arrow lakes. Also, the road on the mountain leading you to the runway makes a perfect three degree glidepath reference.

Pygmie · Post by **Pygmie** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:29 pm

Edo wrote:At first glace I thought these were Jepp charts given the shading and contour features but i can see they are from the CAP

When did the colour shading and countour lines come out. Are these only on the plates for the mountainous regions?

Yes, the contours/shading and such is only done when it is considered necessary for safety. Our poor old prairie charts don't have those, as it's not really necessary.

Sulako · Post by **Sulako** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:49 pm

Ahh those were the days. They wouldn't let us even try the approaches until we were almost finished second year.

I really liked flying in that area - when the weather was good

//Selkirk class of '90

flyby · Post by **flyby** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:09 pm

Flown this many times to minimums. All on MS Flight Sim

. Now if I could just find a way to log all that Sim time...

pelmet · Post by **pelmet** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:27 pm

Here is my question. Where I work, we have approval to use the RCAP. No extra training. We just use it. So why can't anyone use it. For example Castlegar. If there is an approach with lower minimums, why can't anyone use it?

pelmet · Post by **pelmet** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:30 pm

The new RCAP is much better than the old company approaches, many of which appeared way out of date. By the way, with the localizer 27° off centreline with runway 15, shouldn't it be called an LDA approach or is that term not used in Canada anymore?

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:04 pm

bcflyer · Post by **bcflyer** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:47 pm

The LOC DME F approach (Jepps) gets you a couple hundred feet lower than the RNAV approach. The MAP is .9 DME PAST the runway. If its down to minimums there, the only one who can see the airport is the Captain. If the F/O is flying AND the Capt see's it AND determines that the weather is good enough to get out again (mins for dept are actually about 50 ft HIGHER than mins for approach!) then you continue to decend and aim for a rock outcropping about another mile down the valley or so. (remember you are now past the runway threshold still at 2500ft agl and may need to stay within a mile to a mile and a half of the runway to keep it in sight!!) Enter a left turn (30 degree bank angle min and no more than about 125-130kts max) continue to decend and follow the road down the other side of the valley. The approach itself is nothing out of the ordinary (just a 4 step down loc approach) its the visual manuvering to land that gets your attention!!!