ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

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CXALE
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ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by CXALE »

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notwhoyouthinkIam
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

“I am deeply troubled that Cargojet may be using the threat of layoffs and downgrades to convince pilots to support this plan that would weaken safety and put pilots at risk, this coming at a time when your airline has reported significant profits. The regulations in place today are the culmination of years of work and collaboration among all stakeholders in our industry"
I stand behind DePete on this.
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digits_
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by digits_ »

Are they trying to use the FRMS loophole?
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
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simply_no_one
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by simply_no_one »

Dia.s came back firing. Mind you I don't really see how he can defend his position. Does anyone really think they're going to ship off pilot jobs to the USA, where the rules are even more restricting and pilots get paid more... even at cargo carriers? Sounds like he is taking a page from the ACPA book, buying into the fear from the company.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/i ... 56159.html
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fish4life
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by fish4life »

simply_no_one wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 5:00 pm Dia.s came back firing. Mind you I don't really see how he can defend his position. Does anyone really think they're going to ship off pilot jobs to the USA, where the rules are even more restricting and pilots get paid more... even at cargo carriers? Sounds like he is taking a page from the ACPA book, buying into the fear from the company.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/i ... 56159.html
For Jerry D.ias To try claim he knows more about aviation and fatigue flying cargo ops than a pilot that flys for fed ex is also very out of touch.
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FL030
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by FL030 »

I'm trying to wrap my head around how more restrictive fatigue rules results in them needing less pilots.
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simply_no_one
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by simply_no_one »

Or fleet growth... or a booming cargo sector.

It's all fear and manipulation by the company and I'm surprised Jerry is so clearly falling for it.
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fish4life
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by fish4life »

simply_no_one wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 9:32 pm Or fleet growth... or a booming cargo sector.

It's all fear and manipulation by the company and I'm surprised Jerry is so clearly falling for it.
He tends to represent lots of unskilled labour he falls for this all the time. He realizes he isn’t equipped or available to help pilots the way ALPA can, he knows they are a threat and is trying to complain desperately.
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Donald
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by Donald »

FL030 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:09 pm I'm trying to wrap my head around how more restrictive fatigue rules results in them needing less pilots.
This.

If anything, the new rules should result in more upgrades and hiring.
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eyebrow737
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by eyebrow737 »

"trying to interfere with our democratic collective bargaining process"

I was there for the previous "democratic collective bargaining process" The union did not give the opportunity to pilots working, on vacation, or living outside of Hamilton to vote. If I remember correctly only about 70% of the pilot group were able to vote.

We were directly told by the union if we did not vote yes most of the junior pilots would lose their jobs

Secondly, when the vote did not go the way as expected, and many pilots requested to see the results, we were basically told to piss of by the union and that they did not release results of votes.


That company and that union stink of bullying and corruption
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notwhoyouthinkIam
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

eyebrow737 wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 3:24 pm "trying to interfere with our democratic collective bargaining process"

I was there for the previous "democratic collective bargaining process" The union did not give the opportunity to pilots working, on vacation, or living outside of Hamilton to vote. If I remember correctly only about 70% of the pilot group were able to vote.

We were directly told by the union if we did not vote yes most of the junior pilots would lose their jobs

Secondly, when the vote did not go the way as expected, and many pilots requested to see the results, we were basically told to piss of by the union and that they did not release results of votes.


That company and that union stink of bullying and corruption
Sounds like a class bunch.
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Air.Field
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by Air.Field »

Wait. Are we talking about CJ MEC or AC MEC? Because both sound the same.
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Throwaway91
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by Throwaway91 »

Air.Field wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 4:52 pm Wait. Are we talking about CJ MEC or AC MEC? Because both sound the same.
Cut from the same cloth. CJT MEC views itself as an extension of Flight Ops. management - the company goes to the union to tell them what they want, and the union comes to the pilots with the company's proposal with threats of layoffs if the LOU doesn't pass. These types of strong-arm tactics/intimidation are unacceptable, and the fact that Jerry D + Unifor are allowing themselves to be associated with this is shameful.

With regard to layoffs, I think the threats are unfounded. The company is in a period of expansion, adding additional aircraft and routes on behalf of DHL and other partners. You're going to tell me that the company is going to lay off pilots and transfer flying to the USA, where the cost of labour for pilots is significantly higher, just to save on the cost of hotel overnights because the company has to give pilots a local night's rest? BS. They had years to prepare for the new duty regs and they dropped the ball - there was little understanding of how the new regs would impact the operation until they came into effect. Now they're scrambling for an exemption because they didn't have the foresight to adapt the operation accordingly.

For the record, I voted no on principle. The job of the regulator is to define the regulations that airlines must follow with respect to the CARs, and the job of the airlines is to comply with the regulations and to ensure that they are able to adapt operationally when changes occur. If every company could come to Transport Canada and ask for an exemption because the rules are inconvenient for them, there would be no point in having the CARs at all, we would just have a free for all in this country with every company maximizing the labour of their employees with no regard to safety.
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fish4life
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by fish4life »

Easy solution, the pilots should book off fatigued every time they are scheduled a pairing that doesn’t comply with the new regulations and any exemptions would get flagged and pulled by transport.
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PostmasterGeneral
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by PostmasterGeneral »

I feel like there's a Keith D'Mello joke hiding in here somewhere...
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by Yycjetdriver »

Didn’t they just cancel everyone’s vacation because they’re too short staffed? Or is that just a rumour?
If it is true hard to fear monger while doing that?
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bobcaygeon
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by bobcaygeon »

Throwaway91 wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 5:24 pm
Air.Field wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 4:52 pm Wait. Are we talking about CJ MEC or AC MEC? Because both sound the same.
Cut from the same cloth. CJT MEC views itself as an extension of Flight Ops. management - the company goes to the union to tell them what they want, and the union comes to the pilots with the company's proposal with threats of layoffs if the LOU doesn't pass. These types of strong-arm tactics/intimidation are unacceptable, and the fact that Jerry D + Unifor are allowing themselves to be associated with this is shameful.

With regard to layoffs, I think the threats are unfounded. The company is in a period of expansion, adding additional aircraft and routes on behalf of DHL and other partners. You're going to tell me that the company is going to lay off pilots and transfer flying to the USA, where the cost of labour for pilots is significantly higher, just to save on the cost of hotel overnights because the company has to give pilots a local night's rest? BS. They had years to prepare for the new duty regs and they dropped the ball - there was little understanding of how the new regs would impact the operation until they came into effect. Now they're scrambling for an exemption because they didn't have the foresight to adapt the operation accordingly.

For the record, I voted no on principle. The job of the regulator is to define the regulations that airlines must follow with respect to the CARs, and the job of the airlines is to comply with the regulations and to ensure that they are able to adapt operationally when changes occur. If every company could come to Transport Canada and ask for an exemption because the rules are inconvenient for them, there would be no point in having the CARs at all, we would just have a free for all in this country with every company maximizing the labour of their employees with no regard to safety.
TC created the ability to the get an "exemption" from the new regs using the FRMS process. It's not simple or easy to jump thru the hoops and there a very few exemptions issued so far and they are very specific. Agree with it or not, Cargojet is just using the tools provided by the regulator.
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alkaseltzer
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by alkaseltzer »

Word on the street is that George Sugar offered Sunwing pilots jobs during the fatigue vote.
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Tweezer Assassin
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by Tweezer Assassin »

To be clear, they're not trying to utilize the FRMS loophole. They've outright refused to apply through FRMS. They want a straight up exemption from some of the new regs. Not limited to any particular flight or safety protocol built into FRMS.
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digits_
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by digits_ »

Tweezer Assassin wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 8:33 am To be clear, they're not trying to utilize the FRMS loophole. They've outright refused to apply through FRMS. They want a straight up exemption from some of the new regs. Not limited to any particular flight or safety protocol built into FRMS.
How would the union be involved in that? Isn't that between Cargojet management and Transport Canada?
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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