AZ vaccine suspended (again) May 11 2021

[montado]

https://news.ontario.ca/en/statement/10 ... ca-vaccine

I guess now with covid retreating they say the risk of taking az as your first dose is not worth the risk. This is kind of ridiculous the roller coaster science experiment Canadians have become. It sounds like you can only get az as a second dose. Its almost like our leadership wants to fuel conspiracy theorists. I definitely won't take this vaccine. By the time I'm eligible it may not even be a choice.

So is this what transparency looks like? And is science evolving every day? Or is this just completely idiotic management of a vaccine roll out?

[digits_]

To be fair, AstraZeneca seems to generate the strongest side effects. So if there are alternatives, why not.

[RRJetPilot]

The newest data shows risk with AZ is 1 in 60K. So we can easily compare to covid with ages 60 and below. I think many governments are seeing the risk of AZ is just too high. It should be only given to 60+ where the benefits outweigh the risks. The problem is 60+ is the most entitled generation and most refuse to take it. I know both my wifes and I parents are refusing it.

[Inverted2]

Before they were saying it should be 3 weeks between doses. Then it could be 2 months or whenever one is available.

They said you can’t mix doses, now they are saying you can. These “experts” have no clue and change the rules as it suits them. For now I am saying no thanks to any vaccines.

[Eric Janson]

My company has advised us to only take the Pfizer vaccine if we choose to get vaccinated.

Some of my colleagues have already been vaccinated - they are in exactly the same quarantine as me and are subject to the same restrictions as me - I have not been vaccinated.

There is now talk of not opening International borders in Australia until mid 2022 - a year from now

[AirFrame]

Before they were saying it should be 3 weeks between doses. Then it could be 2 months or whenever one is available.

They said you can’t mix doses, now they are saying you can. These “experts” have no clue and change the rules as it suits them. For now I am saying no thanks to any vaccines.

No, these experts were working with the data they had at the time, and as they learn more they adjust their recommendations accordingly. Initially they didn't know whether waiting more than 3 weeks was a good idea or not. They learned more, and adjusted the recommendation. Initially they hadn't done enough testing to know what mixing doses would do. Now they've done that testing, and believe it to be effective. Again, recommendations adjusted.

[altiplano]

Before they were saying it should be 3 weeks between doses. Then it could be 2 months or whenever one is available.

They said you can’t mix doses, now they are saying you can. These “experts” have no clue and change the rules as it suits them. For now I am saying no thanks to any vaccines.

No, these experts were working with the data they had at the time, and as they learn more they adjust their recommendations accordingly. Initially they didn't know whether waiting more than 3 weeks was a good idea or not. They learned more, and adjusted the recommendation. Initially they hadn't done enough testing to know what mixing doses would do. Now they've done that testing, and believe it to be effective. Again, recommendations adjusted.

Are you sure about that?

Where did they learn more? Additional clinical trials? Or anecdotal suppositions? Because additional trials supporting that don't exist from what I can find.

Show me the manufacturer guidelines suggesting waiting longer between doses. Show me where else in the world they are doing that.

Show me the data that mixing vaccines is beneficial. Is that manufacturer approved? What countries are they doing that in? Very few Canadians have even had a second dose so where's the data from?

The fact is the technocrats are saying it enough and their favourite media outlets are reporting it enough and now people in this country are believing it.

Fact is that these are still emergency use vaccines that have not undergone full trials. Never have they been able to produce stable MRNA vaccines in the past, never have they been able to produce a vaccine for a corona virus... now here we are in record time...

I'm not anti-vax, but I'm certainly critical of what I'm seeing.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Before they were saying it should be 3 weeks between doses. Then it could be 2 months or whenever one is available.

They said you can’t mix doses, now they are saying you can. These “experts” have no clue and change the rules as it suits them. For now I am saying no thanks to any vaccines.

You sound like someone who missed the class where they taught you how to use critical thinking. I don't think that you are the right type of person to be operating an airplane.

[newlygrounded]

Before they were saying it should be 3 weeks between doses. Then it could be 2 months or whenever one is available.

They said you can’t mix doses, now they are saying you can. These “experts” have no clue and change the rules as it suits them. For now I am saying no thanks to any vaccines.

You realize you don't collect data overnight? In good science, until there is proof it's a yes, it's a no. If they see after 3 months you can still get a 2nd shot and it's effective they're not going to say that until they have studied it enough.

[shimmydampner]

No, these experts were working with the data they had at the time
....
Initially they didn't know
.....
They learned more
.....
Initially they hadn't done enough testing to know
......
Now they've done that testing, and believe it to be effective. Again, recommendations adjusted.

If by "testing" you mean administering millions of doses to uninformed people, yes...testing.

And yet the people who saw this coming and hesitated to be tested on like so many lab rats get mocked and disparaged by those lining up to be saved from a cold.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

I find it oddly ironic that some of the very same people arguing that the government's reasoning is stupid and should be ignored, are the same people using this government reasoning as evidence that AZ is now dangerous.

Pick one.

[Aviatard]

If by "testing" you mean administering millions of doses to uninformed people, yes...testing.

And yet the people who saw this coming and hesitated to be tested on like so many lab rats get mocked and disparaged by those lining up to be saved from a cold.

These statements certainly qualify as deserving of being mocked and disparaged.

[Hot Wings]

While the rest of us move on with our lives, these dinosaurs are going to be stuck in the past, complaining about young people and science and how much the world is changing. Glad you never had to get Polio or Smallpox, though.

[FL030]

Luckily our vaccination program is so slow that it protected me from receiving a potentially dangerous vaccine.

[kevind]

We are horrible at risk estimation.

If AZ has a 1 in 60,000 chance of side effects and every Canadian received it, then 660 Canadians will have a side effect.

25,000 Canadians have died of covid, so we have a 1 in 1600 chance of death from covid if you did nothing. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

1,307,000 Canadians have got covid, 1 in 30

[shimmydampner]

If by "testing" you mean administering millions of doses to uninformed people, yes...testing.

And yet the people who saw this coming and hesitated to be tested on like so many lab rats get mocked and disparaged by those lining up to be saved from a cold.

These statements certainly qualify as deserving of being mocked and disparaged.

Please elaborate.

[CruiserNU]

I've had both shots of the mRNA Moderna vaccine. I'm aware that I'm a "guinea pig", I knew that going in. But I figured that. at my age, Covid would probably kill me before the vaccine would.

I'm faced with exactly the same restrictions as people who have chosen not to be vaccinated. No wonder there's hesitancy.

[montado]

Doug ford: we can't get enough az vaccine because Trudeau is screwing up.

Trudeau : actually we have millions of AZ doses on the way

Doug Ford: don't take az its not safe.

[shimmydampner]

We are horrible at risk estimation.

If AZ has a 1 in 60,000 chance of side effects and every Canadian received it, then 660 Canadians will have a side effect.

25,000 Canadians have died of covid, so we have a 1 in 1600 chance of death from covid if you did nothing. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

1,307,000 Canadians have got covid, 1 in 30

21,000 of those Canadians who died were over the age of 70. The CDC reports that 94% of covid deaths had at least one underlying health problem. So it's killed 240 healthy people under the age of 70. Covid has killed a total of 0.002% of the population in my age demographic. That puts the number of healthy people in my age group to die from covid at a grand total of 6.

We are horrible at risk estimation.

Some of us certainly are.

[newlygrounded]

No, these experts were working with the data they had at the time
....
Initially they didn't know
.....
They learned more
.....
Initially they hadn't done enough testing to know
......
Now they've done that testing, and believe it to be effective. Again, recommendations adjusted.

If by "testing" you mean administering millions of doses to uninformed people, yes...testing.

And yet the people who saw this coming and hesitated to be tested on like so many lab rats get mocked and disparaged by those lining up to be saved from a cold.

I don't know about you but I don't think professional athletes would get permanent lung damage for the colds I had as a kid?

[photofly]

I find it oddly ironic that some of the very same people arguing that the government's reasoning is stupid and should be ignored, are the same people using this government reasoning as evidence that AZ is now dangerous.

Pick one.

That's because they are starting from the position that the government is evil, incompetent, or both, and all evidence must be interpreted to advance that agenda.

[montado]

I find it oddly ironic that some of the very same people arguing that the government's reasoning is stupid and should be ignored, are the same people using this government reasoning as evidence that AZ is now dangerous.

Pick one.

That's because they are starting from the position that the government is evil, incompetent, or both, and all evidence must be interpreted to advance that agenda.

What ironic about not trusting the government when they flip flopped so far about 8 times on this vaccine?

Speaking of agendas

I find it very odd when people compare Covid to the Spanish flu when the latter has a death rate over 60x worse per capita, and it also occurred in a time when population density and travel were not as abundant and had way less vectors to transmit. We would need to see 218 million global covid deaths to say we experienced a pandemic like the Spanish flu.

Covid is much more like the common flu than the spanish flu pandemic. You don't need an agenda to see that, you just need a brain.

[telex]

vaccine

You spelled experimental substance wrong.

[photofly]

What ironic about not trusting the government when they flip flopped so far about 8 times on this vaccine?

It's a sign of strength to make decisions based on the best evidence available at the time.That improves trust. However, if you're mistrustful and cynical to begin with then you'll interpret it as either evil or incompetent. Which you do.

Speaking of agendas

I find it very odd when people compare Covid to the Spanish flu when the latter has a death rate over 60x worse per capita, and it also occurred in a time when population density and travel were not as abundant and had way less vectors to transmit. We would need to see 218 million global covid deaths to say we experienced a pandemic like the Spanish flu.

Covid is much more like the common flu than the spanish flu pandemic. You don't need an agenda to see that, you just need a brain.

I haven't seen anyone compare it to the Spanish flu pandemic recently, except you. You are certainly the first person to mention it in this thread, Which looks to be an attempt to set up your own straw man to win an argument with yourself. Feel free to do that.

[Inverted2]

Before they were saying it should be 3 weeks between doses. Then it could be 2 months or whenever one is available.

They said you can’t mix doses, now they are saying you can. These “experts” have no clue and change the rules as it suits them. For now I am saying no thanks to any vaccines.

You sound like someone who missed the class where they taught you how to use critical thinking. I don't think that you are the right type of person to be operating an airplane.

Well take your vaccines then. Hopefully it works out for you.