Is a Aviation Diploma Worth It?

[mmmike]

Hey, just wondering if an aviation diploma is worth it. Or maybe even a college degree. I am currently applying to many schools aviation programs and am wondering if they are worth my money as they cost quite more than the average flight school in my area. Either from personal experience or from friends, how was it for you and was it better than no diploma or degree in your opinion.
Cheers

[porcsord]

I went to Selkirk College (defunct).

The diploma itself is not worth a lot, and I don't think it's ever helped me to get a job (although I have never asked specifically if it was a reason I was hired). I can't speak for other flight colleges, but Selkirks program was phenomenal. I don't think anything could have prepared me better for a career in aviation. Selkirk at the time was also a bit of an anomaly, in that all the instructors had real world experience in varying forms (bush flying, airlines, military). It was their retirement job, and their experience was the college's best asset.

I would do the Selkirk program again in a heart beat, as would (I suspect) every other Selkirk grad. I wouldn't do any other flight college. I am not an airline type, and the diploma is essentially worthless in the market I work in. I would get the license as cheap as possible on the smallest tail dragger available, at the end of my 200 hours for a commercial I would plan to have 25 night pic XC, a float rating, multi-IFR, an aerobatics rating and have done at least one cross continent trip. If I knew what I know now back then, I would have worked towards a trade before going to flight school, something not aviation related (sorry AMEs), so that when shit hits the fan, I have a fall back, because it will hit the fan, every 7-10 years.

I'm guessing if airlines are your jam, it's probably a good way to go if it's equally weighted with a non aviation related degree, as you can get an aviation diploma in a couple years, vs 4.

Take this for what you paid for it.

[Cessna 180]

For what it's worth, I did a 2 year aviation diploma program at a non-subsidized college. The actual college tuition was very reasonable. The flying is the same cost as everywhere else practically. While the diploma is rather worthless, I was able to transfer a significant amount of courses to a school in the US later, which has helped me save probably 70% on the cost and time of a 4 year degree. It does tick a box for an employer (Air Canada or similar), however, and some college is better than none. A lot of "flying" courses count as a class, so you save some money and time vs a non-aviation program.

[‘Bob’]

I did no diploma.

Not doing so gave me two of the most precious commodities in life.

Time. Done in a year instead of two. That’s a year head start of looking for a job. Getting a job. Building experience. Building seniority. Ahead of the incoming recession.

Money. If daddy is paying for it all, maybe it doesn’t matter. Maybe daddy can keep giving you an allowance, too. But for the rest of us, this is so we can go on that road trip. This is so we can survive on those first few years of low wages. Think of what that extra money would do in investments or a downpayment over the next 45 years of your life vs a meaningless piece of paper. 45 years ago was 1976. Maybe get in on the ground floor of Apple or Microsoft or buy a house in Vancouver or Toronto. Someone who invested a diploma’s worth of money did very well.

As a backup, an aviation diploma is worthless. A BA or even a BS(c) is worthless. As many are finding out, none are any good for getting you through a recession, and if your intention is to quit aviation entirely because of medical or personal reasons, best to stay healthy and make informed decisions or just start your backup career now. Lots of people start a career from scratch and are successful in middle age.

I can’t speak to the content. I know my wife had some of the same classes like astronomy in the local community college where some of these pilots were doing their diploma. Sounds like a lot of filler especially when I point out Arcturus, Vega, or Aldebaran and most have no idea where to look. https://youtu.be/fBzv1sjKpCU

For career. I did not choose the typical career path and am not in airlines. I know that one airline generally requires a diploma or degree if you don’t come with significant experience, and I know a few operators that prefer a diploma (one because they also run a school that cranks them out.... likely to convince their students of industry norms).

But the most important things are licenses, hours, experience, connections & references, and a clean record. ATPL vs CPL. 1500 hours vs 250. One or two jobs vs none. Proven experience vs none. Tens of thousands in wages vs tens of thousands outlaid.

Are those worth a diploma? I don’t think so.

[Bede]

One of my favourite captains that I have flown with was Capt. Stan Neilson at Jazz. He had a grade 10 education. His line used to be, "when you were in college, I was building seniority." I think he retired #1 at Jazz.

I have nothing against college educations. The major advantage is that employers have a reasonable idea of the product they are getting. Weak students get weeded out. So I do think that it will open some doors. In Ontario, it's also half the price of a private education.

The down sides are that it takes longer (3-4 years). The other downside is that you won't have your horizons broadened as much as if you take a traditional university education.

[pelmet]

I have nothing against college educations. The major advantage is that employers have a reasonable idea of the product they are getting. Weak students get weeded out.

In terms of getting a good pilot, I disagree. The degree doesn’t teach things like good judgement. I could find plenty of accidents where pilots with a degree made poor piloting decisions.

[rookiepilot]

This again?

If your chosen profession requires it. (Medicine, Law, Architecture, Engineering, Computer programming, and the like).

If it doesn't, too often that piece of paper is about as useful....as TP

Save your money.

[challenger_nami]

This again?

If your chosen profession requires it. (Medicine, Law, Architecture, Engineering, Computer programming, and the like).

If it doesn't, too often that piece of paper is about as useful....as TP

Save your money.

Hey Rookie,
You have zero experience beyond your basic PPL... and I doubt you have ever gone through any Pilot Job hiring process... Correct me if I am wrong.

So without the required credibility, please refrain from giving advice to someone who is asking a question regarding CPL and Aviation Hiring practices, which is beyond your level. Thanks Rookie.


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[rookiepilot]

This again?

If your chosen profession requires it. (Medicine, Law, Architecture, Engineering, Computer programming, and the like).

If it doesn't, too often that piece of paper is about as useful....as TP

Save your money.

Hey Rookie,
You have zero experience beyond your basic PPL...


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Are you sure?

[challenger_nami]

.
I wrote:

You have zero experience beyond your basic PPL... and I doubt you have ever gone through any Pilot Job hiring process... Correct me if I am wrong.

No. I am not 100%. That is why I said correct me if I am wrong.

But I have a very good feeling that you do not have the credentials it takes to give career advice to a person who wants to be a pilot. You just don’t.

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[rookiepilot]

.
I wrote:

You have zero experience beyond your basic PPL... and I doubt you have ever gone through any Pilot Job hiring process... Correct me if I am wrong.

No. I am not 100%. That is why I said correct me if I am wrong.

.

How much high density altitude, single engine piston ops time do you have?

As you've commented on this being the primary factor...in a Florida accident, at sea level, so I'm curious.

Doesn't sound like much from that comment. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't have much myself. But I've flown in Florida in a small single, and I've flown in Colorado, and I have noticed a difference on takeoff.

[challenger_nami]

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[challenger_nami]

.
I wrote:

You have zero experience beyond your basic PPL... and I doubt you have ever gone through any Pilot Job hiring process... Correct me if I am wrong.

No. I am not 100%. That is why I said correct me if I am wrong.

.

How much high density altitude, single engine piston ops time do you have?

As you've commented on this being the primary factor...in a Florida accident, at sea level, so I'm curious.

Doesn't sound like much from that comment. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't have much myself. But I've flown in Florida in a small single, and I've flown in Colorado, and I have noticed a difference on takeoff.

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Now you are trying to drift the topic.

Post your question and CHALLENGE ME under that thread you are talking about. Make sure you do a bit of study on density altitude before you say something that make you look bad and in a certain unflattering way....

BEWARE: you may get Deflated like other trolls on that thread

Even though you said that Density Altitude was taught in your PPL, I am just not convinced you have a good understanding of Density Altitude and its negative effects on an airplane in combination with other factors.


******************************************
Back to the point of this thread:
People who have never hold a pilot position in their lives should seriously refrain from giving career advice to people who are seeking career advice on becoming a pilot.

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[rookiepilot]

.
I wrote:

You have zero experience beyond your basic PPL... and I doubt you have ever gone through any Pilot Job hiring process... Correct me if I am wrong.

No. I am not 100%. That is why I said correct me if I am wrong.

But I have a very good feeling that you do not have the credentials it takes to give career advice to a person who wants to be a pilot. You just don’t.

.

Ah. Please Enlighten us then.

How would an aviation diploma specifically make one a safer pilot?

[challenger_nami]

Ah. Please Enlighten us then.

How would an aviation diploma specifically make one a safer pilot?

I am neither For Nor Against The Aviation Diploma.
Not the route I took; I went the traditional route and it worked for me. However, I have seen the diploma open doors for some at lower Flying Total Times without much struggle.

At least I have the credentials to talk about the subject and give career advice if I choose to.... but I won’t open my mouth giving financial advice, and you probably support me on that.

I think Bede and other users have made very good points above... everyone except you Rookie .

And to answer your question: I don’t think it is the flight training that makes a pilot a safe pilot. It’s the pilot who decides to be a safe pilot by self improving and correcting their bad habits and attitudes.

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[rookiepilot]

Ah. Please Enlighten us then.

How would an aviation diploma specifically make one a safer pilot?

I am neither For Nor Against The Aviation Diploma.
Not the route I took, I took the traditional route and it worked for me. However, I have seen the diploma open doors for some at lower Flying Total Time.

At least I have the credentials to talk about the subject and give career advice if I choose to.... but I won’t open my mouth giving financial advice.

I think Bede and other users have made very good points above... all except you Rookie .

And to answer your question: I don’t think it is the flight training that makes a pilot a safe pilot. It’s the pilot who decides to be a safe pilot by self improving and correcting their bad habits and attitudes.

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At the prohibitive cost of post secondary education today?

I am giving financial advice, and that is not to take on a massive amount of debt without a darn good reason, and that advice crosses career boundaries. I've paid my own way, every step, every dime, and so I'm frugal. If the Bank of Mom and Dad are paying, knock yourself out.

Unless I'm mistaken and a diploma is required for a career, including aviation -- I don't see it as a good investment, simply to impress an employer. That is a lousy reason to blow a lot of money and time in my view.

But I do things my way, always have. I get it, most people don't.

I'm in the investment game, and I measure everything I do by a return. I expect a return for time and money spent. Debt is the enemy, and if you don't see AC and others love to see everyone in debt....then they own you.

Structure your life, so no one owns you. Think. Don't blindly follow the sheep. Baaaaaaa.........

THAT is good advice.

in my view a lot of post secondary education is highly polluted and teaches conformity, rather than excellence.

From what I've heard anecdotally of the aviation diplomas offered, I am not impressed, either.

[challenger_nami]

At the prohibitive cost of post secondary education today?

I am giving financial advice, and that is not to take on a massive amount of debt without a darn good reason, and that advice crosses career boundaries. I've paid my own way, every step, every dime, and so I'm frugal. If the Bank of Mom and Dad are paying, knock yourself out.

Unless I'm mistaken and a diploma is required for a career, including aviation -- I don't see it as a good investment, simply to impress an employer. That is a lousy reason to blow a lot of money and time in my view.

But I do things my way, always have. I get it, most people don't.

I'm in the investment game, and I measure everything I do by a return. I expect a return for time and money spent. Debt is the enemy, and if you don't see AC and others love to see everyone in debt....then they own you.

Structure your life, so no one owns you. Think. Don't blindly follow the sheep. Baaaaaaa.........

THAT is good advice.

in my view a lot of post secondary education is highly polluted and teaches conformity, rather than excellence.

From what I've heard anecdotally of the aviation diplomas offered, I am not impressed, either.

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You made some good points in your last post Rookie,
After all, Maybe you are not wrong all the time ... you can be right here and there. (kidding)


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[rookiepilot]

Gee, (YYZ and the other trolls that worship at the idol of useless degrees, maybe if I'd made different choices and got an aviation diploma, I could aspire to....this.

viewtopic.php?f=54&p=1155499#p1155499

...instead of my commute, from my lovely backyard, where I write this, to my upstairs office, for many years now.

Happy to be a college dropout. Think, differently. (I'm not mocking those having to commute. I'm mocking this idolizing of a degree)

[Bede]

...instead of my commute, from my lovely backyard, where I write this, to my upstairs office, for many years now.

Happy to be a college dropout. Think, differently. (I'm not mocking those having to commute. I'm mocking this idolizing of a degree)

[rookiepilot]

...instead of my commute, from my lovely backyard, where I write this, to my upstairs office, for many years now.

Happy to be a college dropout. Think, differently. (I'm not mocking those having to commute. I'm mocking this idolizing of a degree)

Uh, No.

And you should see my library, Bede.
Nothing there, written by broke college professors.
There is more than one way to get an education -- that is my point.

Tell me Bede -- Why did an event like Long Term Capital Management happen, when it was being run by the smartest guys on the planet? Doctorate city -- and they blew it sky high.

I'll wait.