What kind of plans are being implemented now that we are approaching borders reopening.

What deals are the airlines AC, WestJet, Transat, Sunwing, porter etc making with employees to aid the restarts.

Sunwing has cancelled all flights out till July 29, so there’s that.

After voting to give up 10% of our salaries for the next 3 years in our new CBA (signed earlier this year) plus some concessionary LOU’s the pilots signed to aid in the re-start, Sunwing just issued layoff notices to the last few pilots that were still on property.

As far as I know, all the pilots are now back on CEWS.

Negotiations are ongoing to see how to restart the airline as some of us have been inactive so long, that a complete initial course may be required.

DHC-1 Jockey wrote: ↑Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:55 pm Sunwing has cancelled all flights out till July 29, so there’s that.

After voting to give up 10% of our salaries for the next 3 years in our new CBA (signed earlier this year) plus some concessionary LOU’s the pilots signed to aid in the re-start, Sunwing just issued layoff notices to the last few pilots that were still on property.

As far as I know, all the pilots are now back on CEWS.

Negotiations are ongoing to see how to restart the airline as some of us have been inactive so long, that a complete initial course may be required.

If SWG wants to be flying south in November they better have pilots in training by August.

Saw a few SWG pilot names I recognized on the SIM schedule at CAE. It was for Flair SIM training…….

Is Sunwing now Donewing ?

What about westjet and Transat? AC and porter? Any call backs or movement for the ramp up or restart.

Unless Porter can get a discount on airport fees it doesn't sound like they will be returning to operation.

“Based on today’s market realities, the terminal fees charged by Nieuport are neither economically viable nor sustainable and must be reduced for carriers to operate profitably from [the island airport],” Mr. Deluce wrote. “Without Nieuport’s agreement in the coming months to significantly reduce the terminal fees from 2018 levels, Porter will take any and all additional steps required to protect its shareholders’ investment. Over the past year Porter has completed extensive analysis to consider alternative business and capital deployment strategies in order to preserve shareholder value. … [A]lternatives under consideration include redeployment of our assets into the regional aircraft leasing market and/or the disposition of assets and return of shareholder capital.”

FL030 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:43 am Unless Porter can get a discount on airport fees it doesn't sound like they will be returning to operation.

“Based on today’s market realities, the terminal fees charged by Nieuport are neither economically viable nor sustainable and must be reduced for carriers to operate profitably from [the island airport],” Mr. Deluce wrote. “Without Nieuport’s agreement in the coming months to significantly reduce the terminal fees from 2018 levels, Porter will take any and all additional steps required to protect its shareholders’ investment. Over the past year Porter has completed extensive analysis to consider alternative business and capital deployment strategies in order to preserve shareholder value. … [A]lternatives under consideration include redeployment of our assets into the regional aircraft leasing market and/or the disposition of assets and return of shareholder capital.”

Where is that quote from?

fish4life wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:46 am Where is that quote from?

Globe and Mail.

paddy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:32 am What about westjet and Transat? AC and porter? Any call backs or movement for the ramp up or restart.

Jazz recalled a couple of hundred, WJA and WEN as well.

Kosiw wrote: ↑Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:26 pm Is Sunwing now Donewing ?

Lol no. Sunwing is much larger then I’m sure your aware. And some are still working.

As to rudders point, yes we need to be training for the inevitable and yes several trainers are now flying for Flair and Cargojet. This winter is going to be busy.

WJA recalled 80 between WJA/Swoop (purely because of grievance though lol).
WEN just recalled 127 I believe?
Jazz 227?

As expected, regionals will definitely pick up first because of domestic travel then mainlines. AC and WJ (also Sun and Transat) have lost a lot in this with business travel (not business class) being decimated then only picking up to a fraction of what is was as everyone is seeing how much cheaper/convenient zoom/teams/discord is in comparison.

Feel like there will be surges in travel as people get vaccinated and are sick and tired of all this but probably won't be enough to bring things back to 2019 levels for another few years. Speaking in terms of employee levels, specifically pilots/FA's.

Time will tell what happens, hopefully picks up quicker but I have doubts.

Is Sunwing now Donewing ?

Ha.......not with a 33 plane fleet this winter.

TFW flights still happening in YUL and YVR till the end of June...then probably nothing till they start going home in Sept and our restart flights in Oct

Greasy Greaser wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:32 pm WJA recalled 80 between WJA/Swoop (purely because of grievance though lol).
WEN just recalled 127 I believe?
Jazz 227?

As expected, regionals will definitely pick up first because of domestic travel then mainlines. AC and WJ (also Sun and Transat) have lost a lot in this with business travel (not business class) being decimated then only picking up to a fraction of what is was as everyone is seeing how much cheaper/convenient zoom/teams/discord is in comparison.

Feel like there will be surges in travel as people get vaccinated and are sick and tired of all this but probably won't be enough to bring things back to 2019 levels for another few years. Speaking in terms of employee levels, specifically pilots/FA's.

Time will tell what happens, hopefully picks up quicker but I have doubts.

A few years? I'd say more like several months, just look to the south (US) they just had their memorial day weekend, and travel volumes ALREADY surpassed december 2019 levels. We wont be far behind, xmas this year will be big enough to warrant large scale recalls with the majors. Barring some horrible new developments I think the worst is behind us. Time for some good news!

DHC-1 Jockey wrote: ↑Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:55 pm Negotiations are ongoing to see how to restart the airline as some of us have been inactive so long, that a complete initial course may be required.

Really? An initially is only required if your last PPC has been expired for 2 years. So you can go roughly 2.5 years between PPCs without needing to do an initial again. Are guys really get close to that?

Chaxterium wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:33 pm

DHC-1 Jockey wrote: ↑Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:55 pm Negotiations are ongoing to see how to restart the airline as some of us have been inactive so long, that a complete initial course may be required.

Really? An initially is only required if your last PPC has been expired for 2 years. So you can go roughly 2.5 years between PPCs without needing to do an initial again. Are guys really get close to that?

I've always understood the rule as 2 years since you COMPLETED your last PPC not since it expired. Could be different from company to company aswell. So if that's the case, then yea initials would start becoming nessisary as of this december.

Tolip wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:02 pm I've always understood the rule as 2 years since you COMPLETED your last PPC not since it expired. Could be different from company to company aswell. So if that's the case, then yea initials would start becoming nessisary as of this december.

It's two years from when your PPC expires. It doesn't change from company to company.

725.113 Validity Period
(3) PPC, Line Check or Training Expired for 24 months or more (refers to paragraph 705.113(6) of the Canadian Aviation Regulations)

Where the flight crew member's pilot proficiency check, line check or training has expired for a period of 24 months or more, that flight crew member shall successfully complete the air operator's initial training program and a pilot proficiency check on the type of aeroplane.

Chaxterium wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:15 pm It's two years from when your PPC expires. It doesn't change from company to company.

That’s correct from a TC standpoint but your COM could specify shorter, I hear one year inactive on type requiring a full initial course is common.

I've never seen that at any of the companies I've worked for but I suppose it's possible. And in fact I'd say it would be commendable. It's an interesting discussion though. If I was an airline struggling to stay afloat and I had the option of only doing recurrents instead of initials (despite my COM stating otherwise) I'd be really tempted to go with the TC rule.

I imagine from a pilot group perspective it could be seen as discriminatory to come back after a sixteen month medical leave and be expected to be back up to 100% after a couple hours in the sim, or it could be a way to keep insurance rates down, or there could be some other convincing argument in favour.

Yes, I could be mistaken with regards to the expiry date at our company. Some people I've talked to seem to think it was 2 years from completion of the PPC, so I apologize if I've got my information wrong.

All I know I did my last PPC back in early June 2019, so I'm about 24 months now since my last PPC and 15 months since my last flight. Obviously there's others who last did their PPC's in early 2019 and are now almost 2.5 years since their last ride.

Based on my seniority and the issues with getting the training machine spooled up again, I could easily not be recalled until next Spring/Summer which will be 2.5-3 years since my last PPC, hence my understanding that an initial course could be required.

P.S. A friend told me that the SWG F/A's voted the other day to strike as their CBA expired May 31st, which throws another wrinkle into the restart plans.

No need to apologize. It's made me wonder though why airlines wouldn't be keeping their pilots current to avoid this. I understand the costs of keeping pilots current (I'm just talking about sim training) wouldn't be cheap but it seems better than having to put almost your entire pilot group through an initial course again.

Now that I think about it though I guess you can't really keep furloughed pilots current.

Shitty situation all around. Hopefully we're on the back nine of this pandemic.

Chaxterium wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:06 am No need to apologize. It's made me wonder though why airlines wouldn't be keeping their pilots current to avoid this. I understand the costs of keeping pilots current (I'm just talking about sim training).

Because we have to be recalled in order of seniority, and no one junior can be called into work while there are senior pilots off.

That means, under our CBA, that if they were to bring in pilot number 300 (for example) for training, the 299 pilots senior to him have to be paid full monthly pay. The company obviously can’t afford to pay 299 pilots full salary for a month while number 300 is in training.

All this results in only the top 25-40 pilots being kept current while the rest of us are on CEWS.

If travel explodes this fall, it’ll be a huge undertaking to re-train 350+ pilots to be ready for the busy winter season.

This week's training plan at Air Canada shows a significant uptick in widebody training courses for July and early August. Seems like they are preparing to ramp up for overseas flying this fall.

DHC-1 Jockey wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:45 am

Chaxterium wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:06 am No need to apologize. It's made me wonder though why airlines wouldn't be keeping their pilots current to avoid this. I understand the costs of keeping pilots current (I'm just talking about sim training).

Because we have to be recalled in order of seniority, and no one junior can be called into work while there are senior pilots off.

That means, under our CBA, that if they were to bring in pilot number 300 (for example) for training, the 299 pilots senior to him have to be paid full monthly pay. The company obviously can’t afford to pay 299 pilots full salary for a month while number 300 is in training.

All this results in only the top 25-40 pilots being kept current while the rest of us are on CEWS.

If travel explodes this fall, it’ll be a huge undertaking to re-train 350+ pilots to be ready for the busy winter season.

Which is why it makes sense for a pilot group/union to work with the company to allow training in these circumstances (with pay) so that everyone can remain trained in preparation for a recall.

Which is why it makes sense for a pilot group/union to work with the company to allow training in these circumstances (with pay) so that everyone can remain trained in preparation for a recall.

Except that - no one could know how long this was going to last. When all this started in Mar 2020, the company went into hibernation mode to conserve what we had - I think there was a certain thought in the industry that by summer 2020 we would know more about COVID-19 and how to deal with it and that we would all be back to work....a 6 month hiatus so to speak. I don't think anyone thought that it would go 19 months (maybe longer?)

If we had a crystal ball I'm sure there would be some things done different. Good or bad - I think the company has done a good job of keeping the company afloat to see a restart, even if there are going to be a few bumps along the way.