Residential School Airplane

[rookiepilot]

So, in a word, suck it up princess?

It's a choice, not an instruction. Some people have been dealt a very unfair hand in life, and may even be able to identify the dealer. My experience, for better or worse, is to play the best hand you can, without looking back [much].

I like the saying: "Fix the problem, not the blame". An airplane, a statue, a name of an institution were not the problem. "Fixing" them will not result in the problem being fixed.

For my own experience, if I think to blame someone for something, or think about an unpleasant event - I have to think back the the unpleasant event! As much as I can, I choose to not do that.

As I said, if someone cannot make that choice, they do have my sympathy, but they won't have my help in removing an inanimate object, only tangentially associated with the event.

Dar, I’m convinced many of them do not even know how to look forward or move forward.

You and I live near a huge city with unlimited mental health resources. They live in a place where the water doesn’t work right, and maybe everyone they have ever known went through abuse. This is why the addiction rates and youth suicide rates are so high on reserves.

They don’t know how to move on. Yeah it’s a necessary choice but it’s a really hard one. All I am saying.

Then add an exploitative media that is only looking for clickbait articles…really sad.

[Bede]

But the fact remains -- to this day -- No one gives a crap about the reserves or anyone there. That is a fact.

No one gives a crap about residential schools either. It was a hundred years ago.

Umm actually it was 1997. Grollier Hall in Inuvik.

I know people who have been to residential schools and even knew one fellow that ran one. It's an awfully tragic, complex, racist situation.

Anyways, the issue with this story is that the CBC takes a small number of people and extrapolates their silly views to an entire population - such as this story. When I lived in the arctic, guess what the favourite football team of the locals was? Yep, the Edmonton Eskimo's.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

No one gives a crap about residential schools either. It was a hundred years ago.

One of my wife's closest friends, of Cree lineage, narrowly escaped being sent to a residential school, because she was lucky enough to be adopted instead. She's in her early forties now, and several of her childhood friends were sent there, most of whom she never heard from again. Don't tell me this happened a century ago. This is very recent history, and your dismissal of it as ancient history speaks volumes about your ignorance of the problem - and more generally is a major reason why we're just now uncovering the harm that was done.

Umm actually it was 1997. Grollier Hall in Inuvik.

I know people who have been to residential schools and even knew one fellow that ran one. It's an awfully tragic, complex, racist situation.

Exactly. Too may people are far too ignorant of it, either by lack of education on the matter, or by willful ignorance.

[rookiepilot]

Everyone should visit a reserve at least once. Conditions are worse than in many developing countries I've been to. This is Canada. Then comments would be on point.


Course most people wouldn't have the guts to visit either a reserve or a developing country -- unless its behind the fencing of their all inclusive resort they are getting bombed at.-----

World is a bit more diverse than Toronto, Orlando and the all inclusive deal this year.

[digits_]

But the fact remains -- to this day -- and I've been to several: No one gives a crap about the reserves or anyone there. That is a fact.

That's not entirely true. One way to check on how much one gives, is to follow the money. A lot of money is spent on reserves. Medevac is expensive. New schools and nursing stations are being built. As a native, you have access to a lot of programs to improve your life if you so desire. Greatly reduced (or free?) university for example.

What would you change if you were in charge?

I understand that a dark history of abuse can heavily affect ones future. On the other hand, I can't really see a working solution unless that solution comes from within the communities themselves. If you torch houses where your teachers live, if you sabotage medevac planes, if you give sub par housing to the people who didn't vote you in as chief,... then the situation will not improve.

Native people have been pushed into a victim role. To improve, that should stop. Support them with what they need, absolutely, but make it part of a plan or strategy as to how it could improve the situation.

[rookiepilot]

But the fact remains -- to this day -- and I've been to several: No one gives a crap about the reserves or anyone there. That is a fact.

That's not entirely true. One way to check on how much one gives, is to follow the money. A lot of money is spent on reserves. Medevac is expensive. New schools and nursing stations are being built. As a native, you have access to a lot of programs to improve your life if you so desire. Greatly reduced (or free?) university for example.

What would you change if you were in charge?

I understand that a dark history of abuse can heavily affect ones future. On the other hand, I can't really see a working solution unless that solution comes from within the communities themselves. If you torch houses where your teachers live, if you sabotage medevac planes, if you give sub par housing to the people who didn't vote you in as chief,... then the situation will not improve.

Native people have been pushed into a victim role. To improve, that should stop. Support them with what they need, absolutely, but make it part of a plan or strategy as to how it could improve the situation.

It's complicated.

Very complicated, and I've had --(and friends of mine a lot more) more exposure than the average CBC reader. Certainly a lot of mental health support needed.

How about a little more than "It's a choice to move on, suck it up princess" That is a comment from someone clueless about the effects of long term systemic abuse on a person's mental state.

[digits_]

How about a little more than "It's a choice to move on, suck it up princess" That is a comment from someone clueless about the effects of long term systemic abuse on a person's mental state.

It is a bit of a crude statement, but the essence I think is there. You need to be willing to move on, otherwise nothing will happen. That doesn't mean the 'moving on' can't be supported by mental health professionals, but it does need to happen at some point. It also doesn't mean the moving on part is easy.


From an armchair perspective, one thing that should be relatively easy to achieve yet be quite effective, would be to give people/families ownership of the home they are living in. Some pride of ownership should drastically increase the general run down atmosphere in some reserves. If you own your home, chances are you probably won't be burning the floor and walls to save on heating costs. It also prevents the music chair home shuffle after a new chief election.

[rookiepilot]

How about a little more than "It's a choice to move on, suck it up princess" That is a comment from someone clueless about the effects of long term systemic abuse on a person's mental state.

It is a bit of a crude statement, but the essence I think is there. You need to be willing to move on, otherwise nothing will happen. That doesn't mean the 'moving on' can't be supported by mental health professionals, but it does need to happen at some point. It also doesn't mean the moving on part is easy.


From an armchair perspective, one thing that should be relatively easy to achieve yet be quite effective, would be to give people/families ownership of the home they are living in. Some pride of ownership should drastically increase the general run down atmosphere in some reserves. If you own your home, chances are you probably won't be burning the floor and walls to save on heating costs. It also prevents the music chair home shuffle after a new chief election.

I think it’s time to put an all weather road into NW ontario. Some chiefs want it, others don’t. I don’t think the isolation is a positive.

[rxl]

But the fact remains -- to this day -- No one gives a crap about the reserves or anyone there. That is a fact.

No one gives a crap about residential schools either. It was a hundred years ago.

desalvo, Do some homework. This is all within very recent living memory.

[shimmydampner]

I think it’s time to put an all weather road into NW ontario.

To where? And what about the dozens of other fly in communities around the country?

[Beefitarian]

Is an all weather road even possible? I have seen roads in southern Alberta that became impassible due to heavy rain. Becoming stranded on one of those would be a bad enough experience and you would most likely survive at least.

I’m relieved others mentioned residential schools being a pretty serious problem until the end of the 1900s not the beginning. I have spoken with people that went in the 1970s. Taken away from their mom. I don’t even want to write anymore about it.

I feel like trying to somehow provide safe drinking water, while maybe an overwhelmingly difficult task. Definitely should be a priority of the people in government that often claim to care about indigenous people.

[rookiepilot]

I think it’s time to put an all weather road into NW ontario.

To where? And what about the dozens of other fly in communities around the country?

Through the ring of fire area. There have been studies.

I was asked by digits for a suggestion. I gave one, and of course now get trolled for it.

I’m completely unfamiliar with fly in communities outside Ont.

Water is another obvious problem. At least I’m commenting having briefly visited a few of these communities, and not from a CBC article.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

There is actually an all-weather road being built - to Webequie I think, and one of the neighboring communities. Let me see if I can find it...

Yeah:
https://www.ontario.ca/page/northern-road-link-project
http://northernroadlink.ca/

As far as I understand, it would link the communities of Webequie and Marten Falls, which already have an all weather road between them, to highway 11. Environmental impact assessments started in May of this year if I have it right.

I've also heard rumors of a bridge being built, or at least surveys being done, over the Albany River for a road that would possiblly link to Moosonee and Attawapaiskat and Fort Albany.

It's definitely in the works - and in no small part because, due to global warming, the winter road network in NO is becoming unreliable.

[shimmydampner]

I was asked by digits for a suggestion. I gave one, and of course now get trolled for it.

I’m completely unfamiliar with fly in communities outside Ont.

Water is another obvious problem. At least I’m commenting having briefly visited a few of these communities, and not from a CBC article.

Not trolling, just curious. I'm just not convinced that road access does anything to solve the societal problems in these communities.

[rookiepilot]

I was asked by digits for a suggestion. I gave one, and of course now get trolled for it.

I’m completely unfamiliar with fly in communities outside Ont.

Water is another obvious problem. At least I’m commenting having briefly visited a few of these communities, and not from a CBC article.

Not trolling, just curious. I'm just not convinced that road access does anything to solve the societal problems in these communities.

Fair enough

[Beefitarian]

I’m not intentionally trying to troll. It just seems like if they could build roads to all the remote places, they would have. A road might be somewhat beneficial but are people there going to have a reliable enough vehicle to use it? Also I suspect it might actually be less expensive to use planes when people or things need to be transported between barge season and having a functional ice road.

I used to think asphalt was permanent, until I explored many of the British Commonwealth Air Training fields in my area. Walking around them it’s difficult to tell where the runways were because the weeds, grass and brush is growing back.

Reading the article I feel like the lady who suggested moving the Norseman to the float plane base seemed pretty reasonable. I don’t know if that’s possible. The funds and people required to do it may not be available.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

I'm no expert on the matter - far from it. But one of the major problems with our fly-in communities is the sheer cost of goods. I haven't been to any, but I did spend some time in Iqaluit a few years back. Chapstick, for example, cost $7 or so a stick. A stalk of broccoli, $10. A carton of milk, $8 (these are just rough recollections). This is what an all season road could solve. (Well, perhaps not in Iqaluit or the Canadian Far North, but at least we can land a 737 in Iqaluit.)

Then, imagine for a moment, the astronomical cost of flying in construction materials - it simply isn't done in most cases. Everything needs to be trucked in on ice roads during the two months those roads are actually usable. If you run out of anything during the summer construction season (which is quite short in the north), you're waiting until the next year.

It would open up resource extraction (which is a whole other can of worms beyond the scope of this comment) to a vast population of indigenous people who currently have nearly insurmountable difficulties with finding reliable work to pay for that $10 broccoli.

All season roads would make prefab construction possible, for another thing. It's not just about the cost of travel, it's also about what can be transported, and when.

I think all season roads to our fly-in communities would make more difference than anyone could ever possibly imagine. Now of course, one could argue that they choose to live there, and should therefore hunt and gather as they always have, since time immemorial. But their way of life was destroyed - calculatingly and deliberately. Those means of sustenance have been lost, and we as a nation owe it to the people who live there to make them whole again.

[shimmydampner]

It's not just about the cost of travel, it's also about what can be transported, and when.

Don't forget, that cuts both ways.

I think all season roads to our fly-in communities would make more difference than anyone could ever possibly imagine.

In these communities, where addiction is already a disproportionately huge problem, easy access to cheap substances might outweigh the benefits.
There is no easy answer to magically make these places better for the people who live there.

[photofly]

In these communities, where addiction is already a disproportionately huge problem, easy access to cheap substances might outweigh the benefits.

"We mustn't build any roads! They're all addicts and will just overdose on cheaper narcotics!"

There is no easy answer to magically make these places better for the people who live there.

One could start by being a little bit less patronizing.

[rookiepilot]

One could start by being a little bit less patronizing.

The real patronizing is refusing to even acknowledge the real trauma this people group has experienced, refuse to give them the mental health tools needed to move forward, and continue to refer to them as lazy Indians addicted to booze, pop and chips who need to suck it up and move on.

Don’t tell me that’s not a widespread attitude.