Residential School Airplane

[valleyboy]

It seems for whatever reason I got sanctioned on my reply here but I will make a very short statement.

If you don't live or have lived the situation you have no real clue on what the "underbelly" truly is. Some even transit through the reserves and hamelt of the north more interested in building time than understanding the people they are servicing and situations of the people involved.

There certainly the "good, the bad and the ugly" on all sides.

[CruiserNU]

As a fifty year resident of an arctic hamlet where 90-percent of the population is Inuit, perhaps I have some limited insight into these problems (roads, addictions, lack of employment opportunities, housing shortage, etc.)

All-weather roads are, of course, possible. Hell, we built a railroad through the Rockies 150-years ago! Very expensive but do-able, given enough money and political will. But isolation is sometimes a good thing. A good example is how our isolation offered us some protection from Covid-19. Food, fuel and building materials might be marginally cheaper, though the trucking companies will tend to charge whatever the market will bear. Maintenance of an all-weather road would provide some much-needed employment, albeit at a high cost.

Easy road access to the south might exacerbate the addictions problem, though the drug dealers and bootleggers (all of whom are "locals" by the way) don't seem to be impeded by expensive air travel and air freight.

The housing problem is a direct result of the Nanny State treating people like children and not expecting them to look after themselves, at least to the extent that's possible. A welfare recipient pays zero dollars in rent - no fuel cost, no electric bill, no property tax, no maintenance costs, etc.). Same if you're a pensioner. How many old folks in the south can consider ninety-percent of their OAS cheque (plus the "Supplement") as disposable income?

People here have it pretty good, all things considered. Sure, the housing is kinda crappy, but it's free (because YOU are paying for it!) so few people bitch about a few missing floor tiles or the odd broken window. I''ll bet you that if the government were to ask people if they wanted an all-weather road they would, by a small majority, vote it down. Who needs it?

When there was a proposal, years ago, to build a hydro-electric plant here to eliminate the reliance on diesel fuel and lower the cost of power, it was rejected by the local population. Who needs cheaper power? Zero is pretty cheap!

The problems in northern communities and on reserves are probably very similar, but I have no experience with living on a reserve. From what I gather, though, the "chief and council" system is problematic and lends itself to corruption. We are relatively free of that disadvantage in most arctic communities.

[shimmydampner]

In these communities, where addiction is already a disproportionately huge problem, easy access to cheap substances might outweigh the benefits.

"We mustn't build any roads! They're all addicts and will just overdose on cheaper narcotics!"

There is no easy answer to magically make these places better for the people who live there.

One could start by being a little bit less patronizing.

Have you spent much time in fly-in communities?

I never said roads shouldn't be built. And I never said anything about narcotics or overdoses. And I certainly never said all of the people who live in these communities are addicts. So feel free to take your petty snipes all you want, but do not misrepresent what I'm saying.

I'm just pointing out that roads are not a magic solution to the social problems in these places, and they don't come without some negative aspects. And that's not just my opinion. That concern is often voiced by leaders in these communities when the question of roads comes up.

In my opinion, it is more patronizing for people who are not familiar with these fly-in communities (most Canadians) to offer simplistic solutions to complex problems they know nothing about. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what I think or what a bunch of internet experts who've never set foot in a fly-in community think. If government and/or industry wants to build a road, the final say should rest with the community to determine what they feel is best for their people.

[rookiepilot]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatch ... SMcc-Rg-5k

750 more....

[hamstandard]

Wait til you read this article about the number of unmarked graves out there. More than 1 million in a single small island. Didn’t realize these things. And many are recent. Sounds like a widespread thing.

https://time.com/5913151/hart-island-covid/

[withthewesterlies]

Reading this post I am very glad that some people have sympathy and understanding for the people to which the North was their home first. For the people that have so loudly expressed the opposite opinion now is the time to learn about what happened and change your ideas. To entrench ones self in denial is the wrong path to follow.

The airplane as an inanimate object is a beautiful triumph of engineering, however, as a symbol it can be many different things to many different people. To the great people the North who were sheltered from the devastation of settlement until the bush plane arrived after WW2, it is a symbol of the destruction of their way of life and their families. I want anyone who does not sympathize with the survivors of residential schools to please take the time and imagine what it would have been like. Imagine being forcibly taken from your home as a child by an RCMP Officer and sent in a Norseman to a school so very far away to forget who you are and the culture that your civilization was built on. Then decide what you would think of the aircraft from which you watched your parents devastated crying faces and your community disappear from. What would an airplane mean to you if this was your first memory of it.


As pilots we must acknowledge the entire history of the Bush Plane in Canada. To us the Bush Plane is a symbol of exploration and the opening of Northern Canada. But we must also recognized that to the people who were already there long before the first float ever touched the water of their lakes it is a very different symbol.

[rookiepilot]

If you don't live or have lived the situation you have no real clue on what the "underbelly" truly is. Some even transit through the reserves and hamelt of the north more interested in building time than understanding the people they are servicing and situations of the people involved.

This. While making fun of the people who live there, even.

[digits_]

If you don't live or have lived the situation you have no real clue on what the "underbelly" truly is. Some even transit through the reserves and hamelt of the north more interested in building time than understanding the people they are servicing and situations of the people involved.

This. While making fun of the people who live there, even.

That's true, but that is partially caused because they are not the nicest places to fly in. Chicken and egg if you wish. If all those reserves were luxury resorts, the amount of time builders getting those jobs would be much much lower, because people would actually want the jobs.

I've flown in the reserves accompanied by someone who left his country because of a war. He worked himself up in Canada, put a lot of effort into getting a proper Canadian job. He was flabbergasted to learn that the people living in the reserves could get a free education, subsidized housing etc if they wanted to. All they had to do was travel to the university, and that seemed to be too big an effort. From his point of view, that is quite frustrating.

It is a complex problem, with no easy fix, but creating a divide by removing statues or symbols like the Norseman statue, only diverts attention from the real problem. Apparently now it would be offensive to celebrate Canada day this year, because of the recent residential school discoveries. Another discussion that diverts attention from the real issues.

Investigating the murders, and holding the people who committed the atrociities responsible in a court of law, should provide way more justice to the affected families than taking down an airplane or not celebrating a national holiday.

[rookiepilot]

Investigating the murders, and holding the people who committed the atrociities responsible in a court of law, should provide way more justice to the affected families than taking down an airplane or not celebrating a national holiday.

Totally agree. Free anything -- doesn't make up for being abused. So why isn't that necessary justice happening?

[Bede]

Reading this post I am very glad that some people have sympathy and understanding for the people to which the North was their home first. For the people that have so loudly expressed the opposite opinion now is the time to learn about what happened and change your ideas. To entrench ones self in denial is the wrong path to follow.

The airplane as an inanimate object is a beautiful triumph of engineering, however, as a symbol it can be many different things to many different people. To the great people the North who were sheltered from the devastation of settlement until the bush plane arrived after WW2, it is a symbol of the destruction of their way of life and their families. I want anyone who does not sympathize with the survivors of residential schools to please take the time and imagine what it would have been like. Imagine being forcibly taken from your home as a child by an RCMP Officer and sent in a Norseman to a school so very far away to forget who you are and the culture that your civilization was built on. Then decide what you would think of the aircraft from which you watched your parents devastated crying faces and your community disappear from. What would an airplane mean to you if this was your first memory of it.


As pilots we must acknowledge the entire history of the Bush Plane in Canada. To us the Bush Plane is a symbol of exploration and the opening of Northern Canada. But we must also recognized that to the people who were already there long before the first float ever touched the water of their lakes it is a very different symbol.

That’s an excellent post.

[rookiepilot]

Reading this post I am very glad that some people have sympathy and understanding for the people to which the North was their home first. For the people that have so loudly expressed the opposite opinion now is the time to learn about what happened and change your ideas. To entrench ones self in denial is the wrong path to follow.

The airplane as an inanimate object is a beautiful triumph of engineering, however, as a symbol it can be many different things to many different people. To the great people the North who were sheltered from the devastation of settlement until the bush plane arrived after WW2, it is a symbol of the destruction of their way of life and their families. I want anyone who does not sympathize with the survivors of residential schools to please take the time and imagine what it would have been like. Imagine being forcibly taken from your home as a child by an RCMP Officer and sent in a Norseman to a school so very far away to forget who you are and the culture that your civilization was built on. Then decide what you would think of the aircraft from which you watched your parents devastated crying faces and your community disappear from. What would an airplane mean to you if this was your first memory of it.


As pilots we must acknowledge the entire history of the Bush Plane in Canada. To us the Bush Plane is a symbol of exploration and the opening of Northern Canada. But we must also recognized that to the people who were already there long before the first float ever touched the water of their lakes it is a very different symbol.

That’s an excellent post.

It’s an amazing post.

[digits_]

Some other points to consider -according to Wikipedia-:

- The residential school program started during the 1850s
- The first Norseman flew in 1935


The Norseman statue was built with the support of at least some Native people: https://www.thompsoncitizen.net/news/th ... 1.23974357

Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak Grand Chief Garrison Settee said the monument was significant, both as a commemoration of past mistakes and as a signpost towards a brighter future.

“This story is not a very pleasant story for our people,” he said. “It’s a very dark chapter in our history. Today we honour the survivors of the residential school system and those that did not survive, that died in the residential school system. Some are buried in the back of the churches, in the back of the residential schools, in unmarked graves. There’s no monument for them. This is their monument. This is their time to be remembered.”

That the plaque was erected in partnership with the City of Thompson is significant, said Settee.

“It’s a big step towards reconciliation, meaningful reconciliation, not just rhetoric but we’re actually making those significant steps to reconciliation.”

Mayor Colleen Smook said the symbolism of the bush plane wasn’t considered from all angles when the tribute to aviation was developed.

(my emphasis)


This seems to be describing some better ways to deal with it: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/reside ... -1.6081337

[Bede]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatch ... SMcc-Rg-5k

750 more....

Just to clarify, there is a slight difference. The 215 in BC were buried without knowledge that they were there. Basically burying the dead kids out back like you do with an animal. The Cowessess was a grave yard that had the gravestones removed a while ago. All very tragic, but an important difference.

No doubt there will be a bunch more like the BC 215.

[rookiepilot]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatch ... SMcc-Rg-5k

750 more....

Just to clarify, there is a slight difference. The 215 in BC were buried without knowledge that they were there. Basically burying the dead kids out back like you do with an animal. The Cowessess was a grave yard that had the gravestones removed a while ago. All very tragic, but an important difference.

No doubt there will be a bunch more like the BC 215.

Well this is the problem, until its fully and freely done -- nationwide -- how can these people "move on"? As a person of faith myself, this is extremely unconscionable.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6078260

[Bede]

My comment was referencing the lack of nuances transmitted by the media.

Unfortunately, it will take excavations at every single residential school site in Canada until there's closure. It will be a massively expensive, but necessary, undertaking. The sad thing is that I thought that we were moving past the trauma. It's just beginning.